A Reluctant Criticism of Barnes

#103
#103
Unimane said:
And, without Covid last year does he have that streak intact? Am I wrong he has as many NCAA wins as Martin at UT and less than Pearl did? And, yes, Tyndall got Turner, Schofield and Alexander for the Barnes glory seasons at UT.

He has as many 20 win seasons in 6 years as Martin did in 3. Getting to the tournament is an alright accomplishment for an alright coach, which you haven't dissuaded me from finding Barnes to be.

So, convince me he's more than simply alright as a coach. Merely making the tournament in half his seasons as coach here isn't amazing. He's consistently made the tournament in his career, which makes him a consistently alright coach. But, he never wins much of anything when he puts himself in the opportunity to do so.

I mean, LOL if you think what he's done here is above and beyond anything in our recent history. Are you telling me you don't leave feeling the same about Barnes' seasons leaving you thinking it should have been more? You are satisfied with going to the tournament regularly, knowing the coach has a massive issue with underachieving in the one thing which is most important in this sport? I'm not talking about firing him, by the way, I'm talking about assessing what he's done here.

Do we lower expectations because Buzz Peterson wasn't very good?
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Lmao this tells me all I need to know, try again.
 
#106
#106
Special Ed said:
At this point, I'm just hoping Danny White takes a good, hard, objective look at our basketball program and makes whatever decision needs to be made before things go from bad to worse.
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Things aren’t bad. Disappointing? Sure.
 
#107
#107
bleedingTNorange said:
Lmao this tells me all I need to know, try again.
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If I got the years mixed up, then that is on me, but don't try and pull some BS to avoid addressing my more salient points which you cannot refute.

I asked you specific, pointed questions which you are avoiding because they are inconvenient to your narrative.
 
#109
#109
allvol123 said:
He is certainly doing a better job in regards to his assignment.
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C'mon, Wade doing better at his "assignment" than Barnes has nothing to do with integrity. You've heard Wade's tape and you know he's a cheater. Why not just bash Barnes for not winning enough to suit you, without painting him as being dishonest or lacking in principles.

in·teg·ri·ty
/inˈteɡrədē/
noun
  • 1.the quality of being honest and having strong moral principles; moral uprightness:
 
#111
#111
Unimane said:
If I got the years mixed up, then that is on me, but don't try and pull some BS to avoid addressing my more salient points which you cannot refute.

I asked you specific, pointed questions which you are avoiding because they are inconvenient to your narrative.
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No I ignored them because if your stance on Barnes is so far slanted you aren’t going to give credit for players he added to the roster and instead give them to a previous coach then you are likely incapable of having an intelligent discussion on the topic.
 
#112
#112
Unimane said:
And, without Covid last year does he have that streak intact? Am I wrong he has as many NCAA wins as Martin at UT and less than Pearl did? And, yes, Tyndall got Turner, Schofield and Alexander for the Barnes glory seasons at UT.

He has as many 20 win seasons in 6 years as Martin did in 3. Getting to the tournament is an alright accomplishment for an alright coach, which you haven't dissuaded me from finding Barnes to be.

So, convince me he's more than simply alright as a coach. Merely making the tournament in half his seasons as coach here isn't amazing. He's consistently made the tournament in his career, which makes him a consistently alright coach. But, he never wins much of anything when he puts himself in the opportunity to do so.

I mean, LOL if you think what he's done here is above and beyond anything in our recent history. Are you telling me you don't leave feeling the same about Barnes' seasons leaving you thinking it should have been more? You are satisfied with going to the tournament regularly, knowing the coach has a massive issue with underachieving in the one thing which is most important in this sport? I'm not talking about firing him, by the way, I'm talking about assessing what he's done here.

Do we lower expectations because Buzz Peterson wasn't very good?
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You guys have to stop using Martin’s 20 win seasons as a point to argue. It’s disingenuous. You all are the very same who say getting to the NCAAT is the goal and wanted Martin out. Since when is 20 wins, losing to Austin Peay, and going to the NIT something to compare as good? Plus, Martin inherited much better talent. Such revisionist history.
 
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#113
#113
bleedingTNorange said:
No I ignored them because if your stance on Barnes is so far slanted you aren’t going to give credit for players he added to the roster and instead give them to a previous coach then you are likely incapable of having an intelligent discussion on the topic.
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No, that's a cop out you're using. My position on Barnes is quite clear and quite fair, as well as clearly exaplained. My misreading and mis-remembering of Turner and Alexander's commit date was on me, but that doesn't mean my analysis is "slanted", whatever that nonsense means.

Either address the overall analysis I made or don't, but spare me this mealy mouthed crap you are spitting here.
 
#114
#114
BreatheUT said:
Well reasoned post among several terrible takes in this thread.
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If we knew the post was going to be problem, what do you ranks Barnes ability to improve it? How many post players did they miss in this year alone? How many have underperformed? How many have left the program?

Who is responsible for personnel on this team?

Hint: He’s the one making $5 million
 
#115
#115
VolGee4 said:
You guys have to stop using Martin’s 20 win seasons as a point to argue. It’s disingenuous. You all are the very same who say getting to the NCAAT is the goal and wanted Martin out. Since when is 20 wins, losing to Austin Peay, and going to the NIT something to compare as good? Plus, Martin inherited much better talent. Such revisionist history.
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Who is "you guys"? I'm me and my argument remains. I do think Barnes is a better coach than Martin, but his accomplishments aren't overwhelmingly better, for sure. Martin's best team was his third team, so he does get some credit for it, and Barnes' last two seasons are surely all on him, so the "inherited better talent" isn't entirely useful here. I mean, Barnes inherited Scholfield from Tyndall. How do we factor that into this?

In any event, my greater point isn't that Barnes is bad, it's that he's not doing anything remarkably unique here at UT or much better than prior head coaches. It's a March sport and he's terrible in March, simply terrible.
 
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#116
#116
Unimane said:
Who is "you guys"? I'm me and my argument remains. I do think Barnes is a better coach than Martin, but his accomplishments aren't overwhelmingly better, for sure. Martin's best team was his third team, so he does get some credit for it, and Barnes' last two seasons are surely all on him, so the "inherited better talent" isn't entirely useful here. I mean, Barnes inherited Scholfield from Tyndall. How do we factor that into this?

In any event, my greater point isn't that Barnes is bad, it's that he's not doing anything remarkably unique here at UT or much better than prior head coaches. It's a March sport and he's terrible in March, simply terrible.
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It’s been mentioned multiple times about Martin having 20 win seasons, even by a mod, who has been on the record saying college basketball coaches are graded on making tournaments. Just using any argument to justify the preconceived final decision.

What they inherited has a great impact because Martin had the chance to succeed quicker, and it took him to year 3. Martin has just as many tournament wins because he played in the First Four- he gets credit for that? Martin also never won a regular season title nor played in one (or two) conference tournament title games. Barnes is 8-6 against UK.

It’s just so funny that people were all over Martin and now trying to say he “succeeded” to compare with Barnes. Kind of what you get in here.

Barnes has just recently stepped up recruiting. He doubled the number of tournament appearances at Texas, so I expect him to continue to go at UT. Except for Pearl, our history is terrible at that.,
 
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#118
#118
VolGee4 said:
It’s been mentioned multiple times about Martin having 20 win seasons, even by a mod, who has been on the record saying college basketball coaches are graded on making tournaments.

What they inherited has a great impact because Martin had the chance to succeed quicker, and it took him to year 3. Martin has just as many tournament wins because he played in the First Four- he gets credit for that? Martin also never won a regular season title nor played in one (or two) conference tournament title games. Barnes is 8-6 against UK.

It’s just so funny that people were all over Martin and now trying to say he “succeeded” to compare with Barnes. Kind of what you get in here.

Barnes has just recently stepped up recruiting. He doubled the number of tournament appearances at Texas, so I expect him to continue to go at UT. Except for Pearl, our history is terrible at that.,
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I never said Martin succeeded. I said Barnes' accomplishments aren't markedly better than Martin's, which is true. Martin winning a First Four game isn't an appreciable difference than Barnes' win against Wright State in 2018. And, taking out a couple of execrable coaches in Wade Houston and Buzz Peterson leaves UT making about half the NCAA tournaments, maybe even slightly higher, which is where Barnes is batting, so far.
 
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#120
#120
savannahfan said:
He doesn't need to worry about a "lost team". The ones that count are leaving due to graduation or NBA or likely transfer. As as it has seemed for some time, we will be starting over next season.
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My point was he better learn why he lost this past team so history doesn’t repeat itself. CB is a good man and a good coach. However, his blending of 5* talent with developed talent appears lacking.
 
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#121
#121
bleedingTNorange said:
You’re FOS, VQ put this to rest a couple years ago...Barnes used the max number of evaluation days allowed for a HC each year he’s been here. That was a Tony Basilio driven narrative early on because we weren’t landing highly recruited players.
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bleedingTNorange said:
You’re FOS, VQ put this to rest a couple years ago...Barnes used the max number of evaluation days allowed for a HC each year he’s been here. That was a Tony Basilio driven narrative early on because we weren’t landing highly recruited players.
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Whatever, thats Not what I hear. He on never watched, Pember, Gaines, ON, or Anosike play . If he did, we have to really wonder if he can evaluate talent at a high level
 
#122
#122
Mightyvol said:
My point was he better learn why he lost this past team so history doesn’t repeat itself. CB is a good man and a good coach. However, his blending of 5* talent with developed talent appears lacking.
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Did the same at Texas. It’s obvious CRB cannot blend 5* players with 3* players and develop a great team. Some of the talent he wasted at Texas is unbelievable. I guess that’s why they fired him though
 
#123
#123
SGMVols said:
Half of y’all still worship Pearl who won the same amount of hardware at UT that Barnes has, and tried to get involved with 3 other jobs while at UT.
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Wrong, I recall Pearl made the tourney every single year he coached here and he also inherited a dumpster fire from Buzz. Additionally, he typically got past the first round of the tourney and made an Elite 8. Barnes has lost to a lower seeded team in all 3 years he has taken us to the tournament. Think about that
 
#124
#124
1985Vols said:
Wrong, I recall Pearl made the tourney every single year he coached here and he also inherited a dumpster fire from Buzz. Additionally, he typically got past the first round of the tourney and made an Elite 8. Barnes has lost to a lower seeded team in all 3 years he has taken us to the tournament. Think about that
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Lmao, Barnes took over a team with very marginal talent that was coming off NCAA sanctions.

You’re acting like Barnes walked into a gold mine.
 
#125
#125
Unimane said:
I never said Martin succeeded. I said Barnes' accomplishments aren't markedly better than Martin's, which is true. Martin winning a First Four game isn't an appreciable difference than Barnes' win against Wright State in 2018. And, taking out a couple of execrable coaches in Wade Houston and Buzz Peterson leaves UT making about half the NCAA tournaments, maybe even slightly higher, which is where Barnes is batting, so far.
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20 win seasons were never a barometer though...until now. Quite ironic.
 
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