A Non-Mule WV Fan Outlook

#26
#26
WVFan said:
Hi all, WVU fan here. I've never posted on a message board before (not even WVU forums) but felt compelled to create an account after reading some of the mind blowing posts made from a few of my WVU brethren. Below I'll try to outline a more sane expectation of our team and save face for the majority of the WVU fan base.

I'll start with the defense.

First things first, the only exceptional player on the defense is David Long. He's undersized at LB compared to what y'all are used to but he is a stud. Unfortunately for us there is a dramatic drop off on defense from there. Dylan Tonkery was serviceable at LB last year and should be better in his second year. The third starting LB is a JUCO transfer so its hard to tell what we have there.

Safety: Dravon Askew-Henry was a Freshman AA but tore his ACL two years ago and was a huge liability last year. We are all hopeful that he can return to his pre-injury status but only time will tell. He is also playing a new position this year which is the tone setter for the D, so we really need him to be good. The other two starting safeties are decent but nothing to write home about. Kenny Robinson was a boom or bust freshman last year and, as all good homers do, we like to focus on the boom which is why WVUMULE was so high on him in his last post.

Cornerbacks: They were abysmal last year so it can only go up from there. Hopefully they can upgrade to just "liability" instead of "abysmal" this year.

That brings us to the DL. Surprisingly, it looks like the defensive line has turned into one of our strengths this year. I know, I know, you all are tired of hearing about our two transfers, but you have to understand that they actually are a really big deal for us. Our DL was miserable last year (as you guys rightfully bring up at any possible opportunity. SEE: Kansas running game). Two of our starters from last years DL left the program and it sounds like it was a mutual split with our DC even stating that one of them was like a cancer to the team. So those two transfers from big time programs, even if they didn't play much at their last schools, are an upgrade from what we have last year. Expect to see a lot of shuffling on the DL early in the game until the coaches figure out who is actually for real, because all fall they have been saying that we have 8 guys who can play. I like the optimism, but I'll believe it when I see it. Most of us fans will be ecstatic if 3 players turn out to be good (which I believe will happen).

Overall, we will be better than we were last year but we did not set the bar that high. I think of the defense like you all think of your whole team, it's a giant unknown. I do believe the talent is there, but have no idea if they will bring it all together. I would be happy if our D averaged giving up around 28PPG by the end of the year. I know, that's rough.

Offense:

QB: Will Grier will be the best player on the field, for either team. There is a reason he is a preseason first team AA.

WR: David Sills is also a preseason AA for a reason, all he does is score touchdowns. Gary Jennings is also a stud and will be playing on Sundays next year, he is the guy that you all need to shut to down really impact our offense. He has a knack for getting open and doesn't ever drop the ball. Marcus Simms is a speedster but has been known to drop the easy passes. We haven't seen T.J. Simmons yet so we don't really know what were getting but Grier has had nothing but good things to say about him (whatever that's worth).

RB: If the old saying goes "if you have two QBs, then you have no QBs" what does it mean if you have 4 RBs? Seriously, I have no idea what we have here. Some of our fanbase is excited that the coaching staff has talked up a RFrosh a TFrosh running back this fall but it worries me. I would have liked to see McCoy or Pettaway (the back-ups from last year) distance themselves as starters. Overall, I think defenses will have to account for Grier enough that the RBs will be decent but I have no idea which one will be the starter as the season goes on.

TE: I'm not buying into the TE hype until I see it. Dana has been saying for the last few years that we would start using a TE and it has yet to happen. All we really know is that Wesco is a blocker and Haskins is a pass-catcher.

Line: We have two very good lineman in Cajuste and McKivitz, both tackles. I am not drinking the cool-aid that our interior lineman will be great this year. Our interior line play last year was bad, which is the reason we either scored on a 4 play, 80 yard drive or had a three and out. Seriously, there wasn't much of an in-between last year. Our starting center from last year lost the job in the Spring, but has since pulled back even on the depth chart. This is another RB situation for me, I would have liked to see him distance himself from the backup.

Overall, our offense should be prolific if for nothing else than Will Grier and the fact it's his second year in the system. Say what you will about Dana, but returning QBs on his team have seriously improved numbers from the previous year. The interior line is my biggest fear, but I think they will be serviceable enough that we can average 35-38PPG.

Sorry for the long winded post but I wanted to give a more honest review of our team. As for a prediction of this game, I think we do end up winning, mainly because its the first game of the season. This will be one of the few games we don't have to worry about depth. I also think that you all are putting too high of expectations on your new head coach in the first game of the season. I think you all admit that he inherited a dumpster fire and I don't think he will be able to turn it around in the first game. If we played y'all in the 10th game of the year then I think there could be a very different outcome.

Good luck on Saturday and no matter the outcome, I will be rooting for the Vols to win every game the rest of the year.
Click to expand...

Ok! I'll post it...
 
  • Like
Reactions: OrangeSquid, malinoisvol and Negan
#27
#27
Thanks for that solid write up WVFan. About as honest as any homer could reasonably be. Always welcome here.

I think Grier may be a solid QB but honestly, I have a feeling that we have a lot more weapons on D than you have on O and if Pruitt finds a way to get some penetration, we will see just how good Grier is when the pocket is collapsing every play. You guys have not beaten anyone so far that I have much respect for. Dana has been a decent coach but my general sense is that if he were going to be great, you would have seen that by now. If anyone can shut down your offense, it would be Pruitt.

Now granted, your Defense doesnt scare anyone but realistically we have absolutely no idea what we have on offense yet. I suspect by the end of the season, it will be productive but I really dont know if Helton has everyone really jelled yet. Obviously, figuring out who the QB is will be a big part of that.

In the end, we have a lot more talent than WVU - talent that was horribly wasted and misused previously. I believe, given time, Pruitt has shown he can coach them up. The real unknown is whether he has done that by this Saturday.
 
  • Like
Reactions: advancedrescue27 and savannahfan
#28
#28
chatt-townVOL said:
Solid info WVFan.

The only thing I disagree with is the the idea that we would have a better shot if this were game 10. One big-time advantage we have is that WVU literally has no idea what to expect from us, or how to prep for it. I’m sure Dana is running practices against a 3-4, but we will likely run both 3-4 and 4-3 throughout the game.

On offense, no one knows what to expect formation-wise. I will only give you this, if our spring game/open practice is any indication, expect to see a LOT of different looks on offense. I’m talking:

Shotgun/spread single back
I-form with a fullback
Back to shotgun
Shotgun 2 back
I-form single back

The unknown gives us a pretty big advantage imo.
Click to expand...

I don’t disagree with your post but the flip side is this is our first live game running plays out of and executing this system. I think his point was that by game 10 we should be well versed and comfortable in our schemes and playbook. At that point, if we do truly have equal or better talent/size/speed overall then assumed equal execution of our and their systems would give us an edge.

At the end of the day it’s a circular argument for surprise versus being experienced in your system. Our hope is that we have surprise and execute a new system well early. I assume we will limit the packages and plays and try to execute those well for now.
 
#29
#29
chatt-townVOL said:
Solid info WVFan.

The only thing I disagree with is the the idea that we would have a better shot if this were game 10. One big-time advantage we have is that WVU literally has no idea what to expect from us, or how to prep for it. I’m sure Dana is running practices against a 3-4, but we will likely run both 3-4 and 4-3 throughout the game.

On offense, no one knows what to expect formation-wise. I will only give you this, if our spring game/open practice is any indication, expect to see a LOT of different looks on offense. I’m talking:

Shotgun/spread single back
I-form with a fullback
Back to shotgun
Shotgun 2 back
I-form single back

The unknown gives us a pretty big advantage imo.
Click to expand...

I agree with this... mostly. It’s like a pitcher making his big league debut. Limited tape and experience against him, so the opponent is at a disadvantage. Problem is, the pitcher has to go execute and take advantage of the situation.

It should be interesting.
 
#30
#30
WVfan, I'd be willing to convert you to a Volunteer and send about 10 from our board over to your team. Nice analysis.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bigorange
#33
#33
Grier? Best player on the field? Hmmmnnnn what about Jawan Jennings? Kongbo? Callaway? etc etc? Grier is good, but not the best player on the field. On a different note, I'll be camping in WV this weekend, is there a place near Camp Creek to have a beer and watch the game?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pruitt Will Do It
#34
#34
Thanks for the good banter everybody, this is fun. Most of you all have done a lot of research and know our team well which I appreciate. The biggest thing I've noticed through reading this post, and many others is the differing views the two fan bases have on y'all having a new coach. Your fans are rightfully excited to have a new HC coming from the top team in college football. Most of you all think that it's an advantage that we have no idea what to expect or scheme for. The WVU fan base sees this as the first game of your rebuilding process and we will see a hangover from the Butch Jones era simply because Pruitt, or Bill Bellichek for that matter, didn't have enough time to get rid of all the bad Jones left. This is why I said I am glad that we are playing you all in the 1st game instead of the 10th. Come game time, I'm sure it will be somewhere of a middle ground between each of our fan bases thoughts. Pruitt will certainly throw something at us that we didn't know to plan for but your players will struggle at times with the new schemes that they have just recently learned. The pitcher analogy is a really good one in my opinion. Here's another part to that, how hard is it for that pitcher to go out and throw sliders when he has been practicing curve balls the last 3 years? You all clearly have the better athletes, the winner of the game will depend on if they've had enough time to learn Pruitt's schemes or not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: savannahfan, Gandalf, HorusHawk and 3 others
#36
#36
Wonderful write-up. I agree with just about everything...except...Trey Smith will be the best player on the field. I know linemen don't get the credit, but if you watch 73 for just a few snaps on Saturday you will see what we mean. Smith will probably be the best player on the field for just about every game this year. Grier is a really good QB, but Smith is top 3 pick in the draft.
 
  • Like
Reactions: savannahfan and DiderotsGhost
#38
#38
WVFan said:
Hi all, WVU fan here. I've never posted on a message board before (not even WVU forums) but felt compelled to create an account after reading some of the mind blowing posts made from a few of my WVU brethren. Below I'll try to outline a more sane expectation of our team and save face for the majority of the WVU fan base.

I'll start with the defense.

First things first, the only exceptional player on the defense is David Long. He's undersized at LB compared to what y'all are used to but he is a stud. Unfortunately for us there is a dramatic drop off on defense from there. Dylan Tonkery was serviceable at LB last year and should be better in his second year. The third starting LB is a JUCO transfer so its hard to tell what we have there.

Safety: Dravon Askew-Henry was a Freshman AA but tore his ACL two years ago and was a huge liability last year. We are all hopeful that he can return to his pre-injury status but only time will tell. He is also playing a new position this year which is the tone setter for the D, so we really need him to be good. The other two starting safeties are decent but nothing to write home about. Kenny Robinson was a boom or bust freshman last year and, as all good homers do, we like to focus on the boom which is why WVUMULE was so high on him in his last post.

Cornerbacks: They were abysmal last year so it can only go up from there. Hopefully they can upgrade to just "liability" instead of "abysmal" this year.

That brings us to the DL. Surprisingly, it looks like the defensive line has turned into one of our strengths this year. I know, I know, you all are tired of hearing about our two transfers, but you have to understand that they actually are a really big deal for us. Our DL was miserable last year (as you guys rightfully bring up at any possible opportunity. SEE: Kansas running game). Two of our starters from last years DL left the program and it sounds like it was a mutual split with our DC even stating that one of them was like a cancer to the team. So those two transfers from big time programs, even if they didn't play much at their last schools, are an upgrade from what we have last year. Expect to see a lot of shuffling on the DL early in the game until the coaches figure out who is actually for real, because all fall they have been saying that we have 8 guys who can play. I like the optimism, but I'll believe it when I see it. Most of us fans will be ecstatic if 3 players turn out to be good (which I believe will happen).

Overall, we will be better than we were last year but we did not set the bar that high. I think of the defense like you all think of your whole team, it's a giant unknown. I do believe the talent is there, but have no idea if they will bring it all together. I would be happy if our D averaged giving up around 28PPG by the end of the year. I know, that's rough.

Offense:

QB: Will Grier will be the best player on the field, for either team. There is a reason he is a preseason first team AA.

WR: David Sills is also a preseason AA for a reason, all he does is score touchdowns. Gary Jennings is also a stud and will be playing on Sundays next year, he is the guy that you all need to shut to down really impact our offense. He has a knack for getting open and doesn't ever drop the ball. Marcus Simms is a speedster but has been known to drop the easy passes. We haven't seen T.J. Simmons yet so we don't really know what were getting but Grier has had nothing but good things to say about him (whatever that's worth).

RB: If the old saying goes "if you have two QBs, then you have no QBs" what does it mean if you have 4 RBs? Seriously, I have no idea what we have here. Some of our fanbase is excited that the coaching staff has talked up a RFrosh a TFrosh running back this fall but it worries me. I would have liked to see McCoy or Pettaway (the back-ups from last year) distance themselves as starters. Overall, I think defenses will have to account for Grier enough that the RBs will be decent but I have no idea which one will be the starter as the season goes on.

TE: I'm not buying into the TE hype until I see it. Dana has been saying for the last few years that we would start using a TE and it has yet to happen. All we really know is that Wesco is a blocker and Haskins is a pass-catcher.

Line: We have two very good lineman in Cajuste and McKivitz, both tackles. I am not drinking the cool-aid that our interior lineman will be great this year. Our interior line play last year was bad, which is the reason we either scored on a 4 play, 80 yard drive or had a three and out. Seriously, there wasn't much of an in-between last year. Our starting center from last year lost the job in the Spring, but has since pulled back even on the depth chart. This is another RB situation for me, I would have liked to see him distance himself from the backup.

Overall, our offense should be prolific if for nothing else than Will Grier and the fact it's his second year in the system. Say what you will about Dana, but returning QBs on his team have seriously improved numbers from the previous year. The interior line is my biggest fear, but I think they will be serviceable enough that we can average 35-38PPG.

Sorry for the long winded post but I wanted to give a more honest review of our team. As for a prediction of this game, I think we do end up winning, mainly because its the first game of the season. This will be one of the few games we don't have to worry about depth. I also think that you all are putting too high of expectations on your new head coach in the first game of the season. I think you all admit that he inherited a dumpster fire and I don't think he will be able to turn it around in the first game. If we played y'all in the 10th game of the year then I think there could be a very different outcome.

Good luck on Saturday and no matter the outcome, I will be rooting for the Vols to win every game the rest of the year.
Click to expand...
Thanks. Despite our storied history, the last 10 years have resulted in a condition called battered Vol syndrome.
 
#39
#39
WVFan said:
Thanks for the good banter everybody, this is fun. Most of you all have done a lot of research and know our team well which I appreciate. The biggest thing I've noticed through reading this post, and many others is the differing views the two fan bases have on y'all having a new coach. Your fans are rightfully excited to have a new HC coming from the top team in college football. Most of you all think that it's an advantage that we have no idea what to expect or scheme for. The WVU fan base sees this as the first game of your rebuilding process and we will see a hangover from the Butch Jones era simply because Pruitt, or Bill Bellichek for that matter, didn't have enough time to get rid of all the bad Jones left. This is why I said I am glad that we are playing you all in the 1st game instead of the 10th. Come game time, I'm sure it will be somewhere of a middle ground between each of our fan bases thoughts. Pruitt will certainly throw something at us that we didn't know to plan for but your players will struggle at times with the new schemes that they have just recently learned. The pitcher analogy is a really good one in my opinion. Here's another part to that, how hard is it for that pitcher to go out and throw sliders when he has been practicing curve balls the last 3 years? You all clearly have the better athletes, the winner of the game will depend on if they've had enough time to learn Pruitt's schemes or not.
Click to expand...

I think WVU has huge offensive potential, but I also think the team is a paper Tiger this year. If your offense stays healthy, you could easily average 40 ppg. But its so precarious with your lack of depth that if one important piece goes down the whole house of cards could come crumbling down.

I think Holgorsen has really struggled to consistently recruit and develop to the level I think West Virginia is capable of. I know WVU will never recruit at the level of an SEC blue blood, isolation and all, but why not at the level of someone like Va Tech? You are both isolated mountain schools, and Va Tech has shown with the right coach you can consistently punch out 10 win seasons. There's no reason WVU shouldn't be able to finish ~4th every year in the Big 12 with a 2nd or 1st appearance every 3-4 years when an experienced roster returns. Don Nehlen was able to take WVU so close to 2 national titles, and minus that Godawful Pitt game Rich Rod would've played for one.

Would love to hear a WVU fan's perspective on Dana.
 
#40
#40
WVFan - why do you think the ACC, SEC, & B10 do not want uwv in their conferences even though you sit right in the middle of all three? What will uwv do when the B12 folds? I see them joining the OVC myself.
 
#41
#41
I try to keep my expectations as realistic as possible, so I think Dana has done fair as a coach, not bad or good just fair. It's incredibly hard to recruit 4-5 stars to come to WVU for various reasons. The first is the nation perception of WV, there's no denying that its not good. A bigger obstacle in my opinion is that we are in the BIG12. It is hard for us to recruit athletes from the midwest because they don't want to come all the way here. Similarly, it's difficult for us to recruit athletes from the east coast because they know that half our games will be too far away for their family/friends to travel to. I get the VT comparison, but I don't think its comparing apples to apples. VT can tell their recruits parents that they will be able to travel and watch every game, we can't realistically say that to recruits on the east coast.
With all that being said, if Dana can't make it to the B12 title game this year, then it might be time to start looking else where. By all accounts, this should be our year. The B12 is a QB league, and we undeniably have the best QB. The B12 as a whole is down and we are up. I know a portion of your fan base thinks we will finish 6-6 this year, I truly don't think that will happen. As long as we don't get the injury bug we should be able to score in bunches against B12 defenses. Oklahoma proved last year that you can get by in our league with a below average defense if you have an exceptional offense.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: savannahfan
#43
#43
sjt18 said:
About the only thing really, really disagreeable about that whole post is Grier being the best player on the field. He's very good. But get used to the name Trey Smith. Some have said he was the best individual OL in the SEC last year... as a freshman.
Click to expand...

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Greir the one in Florida that got the crap knocked out of him and went to locker room, came back outta the locker room like a squirrel jacked up on Mt. Dew & booger sugar & tested positive for PED...? I may have a couple memories jumbled up on each other but seems like that's what happened...
 
  • Like
Reactions: sjt18
#45
#45
Is Dana trying to start a spin-off called Last Chance U: West Virginia? Got Grier the drug lord a few years back, and now have a transfer from Alabama who was dismissed from the team after being arrested in June on assault charges.
 
#46
#46
WVFan said:
A question for you Vol Fans, which QB does the fan base want to start and why?
Click to expand...
I don't have a personal preference. Whichever one gives us the best chance to win is the one I want. Having said that, I think it works out best for the future of the program if that ends up being Guarantano, because he has two more years. If Chryst wins the job I think JG transfers and we're back at square one next year with a sophomore who has proven to be very underwhelming, a redshirt freshman with no experience, and one or two true freshmen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: advancedrescue27
#47
#47
WVFan said:
I try to keep my expectations as realistic as possible, so I think Dana has done fair as a coach, not bad or good just fair. It's incredibly hard to recruit 4-5 stars to come to WVU for various reasons. The first is the nation perception of WV, there's no denying that its not good. A bigger obstacle in my opinion is that we are in the BIG12. It is hard for us to recruit athletes from the midwest because they don't want to come all the way here. Similarly, it's difficult for us to recruit athletes from the east coast because they know that half our games will be too far away for their family/friends to travel to. I get the VT comparison, but I don't think its comparing apples to apples. VT can tell their recruits parents that they will be able to travel and watch every game, we can't realistically say that to recruits on the east coast.
With all that being said, if Dana can't make it to the B12 title game this year, then it might be time to start looking else where. By all accounts, this should be our year. The B12 is a QB league, and we undeniably have the best QB. The B12 as a whole is down and we are up. I know a portion of your fan base thinks we will finish 6-6 this year, I truly don't think that will happen. As long as we don't get the injury bug we should be able to score in bunches against B12 defenses. Oklahoma proved last year that you can get by in our league with a below average defense if you have an exceptional offense.
Click to expand...

The "injury bug", hope no one ever suffers this problem like we have the last few years. But as has been stated in other post in this topic, hurt your QB, trouble for sure. Beyond that, lose your very good receiver, maybe not as much trouble, but trouble just the same. Now lose one or maybe two of your offense line,,, big trouble. What I'm saying is don't catch the "BUG". We know!!!
 
#48
#48
Thanks for the candid assessment OP.
This is about spot on from those I've spoke to that are "in the know" up here in WV.
From what I've gathered in talking to some folks, the coaches aren't overly confident in this game either. Too many unknowns.
It was also stated by the D.C. To a friend that we have 5 years of tape, wvu has a watered down spring game that was missing 10-12 starters...
 
#49
#49
WVFan said:
T. . .The WVU fan base sees this as the first game of your rebuilding process and we will see a hangover from the Butch Jones era simply because Pruitt, or Bill Bellichek for that matter, didn't have enough time to get rid of all the bad Jones left...
Click to expand...


I think there is some merit to this belief offensively. The CBJ offense was ill conceived at best. But, there are some very talented kids on that side of the ball, and there is justified optimism that the O line can be better. We will see. Defensively, the scheme is changing but the coaches have eluded to the fact that they will only attempt what they feel the players can do. That is, I think first few games will be a very KISS approach on both sides of the ball. But, there is enough talent on the field to compete. There's no question there.

The one thing I think the WVU faithful are dismissing is that the 4-8 record last year was a little bit distorted. The effort at the end was pretty poor. I won't flat out say that they quit on Jones, but watching the last few games, it sure felt like it at times. I think there is justified optimism that the new coaching staff has seen that anyone who gave less than 100 percent effort at anytime has received either a serious attitude adjustment or their walking papers. I expect the effort and intensity to be elevated significantly this season. If every Vol that steps on the grass seriously gives his all for Tennessee this Saturday and our coaches can figure out a wrinkle or two to throw at you, I think the Mountaineers will get all they want and then some.
 
#50
#50
chatt-townVOL said:
Solid info WVFan.

The only thing I disagree with is the the idea that we would have a better shot if this were game 10. One big-time advantage we have is that WVU literally has no idea what to expect from us, or how to prep for it. I’m sure Dana is running practices against a 3-4, but we will likely run both 3-4 and 4-3 throughout the game.

On offense, no one knows what to expect formation-wise. I will only give you this, if our spring game/open practice is any indication, expect to see a LOT of different looks on offense. I’m talking:

Shotgun/spread single back
I-form with a fullback
Back to shotgun
Shotgun 2 back
I-form single back

The unknown gives us a pretty big advantage imo.
Click to expand...

Greatly anticipating the what other message boards are saying thread.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ValleyAlVol
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement



Back
Top