A Fair Benchmark for Butch: 6-2 in SEC or: Why the Negas have a Point

[KBVol]

No but that wasn't my point. I think Alabama is the most dominant team in history. We play them every year. That's all I was saying.

And he countered your point with what happened this year specifically. The expected/predicted Bama loss didn't hurt this year, had no impact on us getting to Atlanta.....the inexcusable losses to SCar and Vandy defined/doomed the season. While your point is generally well taken, the Bama game had no bearing on the outcome of our season this year.

 

[05_never_again]

You make many good points. The culture of college football has changed and is changing more. It will be interesting to see how it effects recruits and coaches. Right now coaches are having huge buyouts and I think it correlates with not only the high expectations but also with the amount of time they are given to rebuild.

Saban is raising the expectations everywhere, especially at big name programs.

However something interesting is happening. There are schools out there (Texas and Georgia come to mind immediately) that expect Saban-like turnarounds from their new hires.

People need to step back and realize that when Saban showed up at Alabama, he had already:

- Coached in the NFL
- Won a National Title at an SEC school as a head coach
- Been a head coach at another big time program

He by no means was some sort of up-and-coming coach when he took over there.

Compare this with, say, Tom Herman's resume. While fairly impressive, it is nothing compared to Saban's when he showed up at Alabama. As for Georgia, this is Kirby Smart's first-ever head coaching job, for crying out loud. It also is fairly clear by now that Saban's coaching talent does not transfer by osmosis.

 

[tvolsfan]

as i hear more and more about the goings on about the AD hire, and the administration in general, i'm now even more inclined to believe that winning at an elite level is just not on the list of priorities.

so, while in merit, i agree on what should happen, i'm beginning to think CBJ has at least 2 more years, barring some epic meltdown type season.

we go 7-5 next year, another bowl....he'll be fine. better than that, and there's not going to be anyone up on the hill blink an eye.

If Blackburn is named athletic director, I definitely think 7-5 gets him fired. I'm not sure 8-4 will save him, either. If it's Gilbert, I would probably agree with you. If it's neither of them, ask me again after we find out who it is.

 

[tvolsfan]

You all keep holding on to this fiction.

How can you guys argue that Tennessee settles for mediocrity?

You fired an alumnus who won a national championship. How many schools have done that?

You fired Dooley after three years. Who fires a coach for on-field only reasons after two years? No one would have fired him any sooner

Is there anyone really arguing that Butch should have been fired after this season?

Florida held onto Will Muschamp after he went 4-8 in year 3.

As far as firing a head coach who won a title at their alma mater, how many programs have found themselves in a similar situation? Especially recently.

I agree our hands were pretty much tied with Dooley.

Muschamp also won 11 regular season games in year 2.

 

[tvolsfan]

No one anywhere would have fired Fulmer in 2005.

Hindsight is great. But at the time, he had the highest winning percentage or close in college football. They just won 10 or so games in 2004 and went to Atlanta. He averaged 10 wins or close to that a year.

No one would have fired a coach with one bad season. Particularly one with a national title and an alumnus.

He was 128-37 at the end of 2005.

I think you all really miss the mark if you think Florida, FSU, notre dame, usc, michigan, etc, would have fired him under thoae exact circumstances. No way

There are plenty of schools that would fire a coach that went seven years without winning the conference and finished with a losing season.

 

[golfballs]

This is a pointless exercise. If every year you go 6-2 but another team is 7-1, do you think fans will be happy because we reached some historical benchmark that the OP thinks is significant?

Tennessee is expected to compete for SEC Championships and Butch will be held to that standard.

 

[MWAVolfan]

Simple win and loss totals should not be the measure of success. Context matters as much if not more. When Butch spouts off about winning 14 of 18 games, it's meaningless because it's across two seasons. If you beat Florida and Georgia and then lose to Vandy and USC in the same year then in my mind you accomplished exactly nothing.

Here's an accurate evaluation of Jones in 2016 with almost no numbers needed:

The SEC east was historically bad and maybe the most winnable in its history. UT played outside the state of Tennessee exactly 3 out of 13 games and 2 of those games were against first year head coaches. Just let that sink in. Ten games inside the state. Who has ever has a schedule more favorable? UT beat Florida and then proceeded to hand it right back to them with horrid losses to a high schooler and a perennial 14th place team. The path to winning the SEC east will never ever be as easy for Tennessee as it was in 2016 and Butch became the first adult in history who failed to take candy from a baby.

Context behind numbers matters.

 

[jonnon111]

Taking out the give me wins such as your Western Carolinas and Tennessee Techs, this would be Jones' records while at UT

2013- 2-7
2014- 4-6
2015- 6-4
2016- 6-4

Overall- 18-21 (.461 winning %)

Did you do this for the other coaches or just the one you don't like?

I just wish this could be like Saban at Mich. St. Meyer at Utah or Mcelwaine at UF or Harbaugh at Michigan and win every game and every division you ever coached in. From day 1. Progress be damned, straight to the top.

Wait . . . They didn't win every game from the start?
What do you mean Harbaugh hasn't even finished in the top 2 of his division and he makes 3 times what Butch makes and he doesn't even have to play Alabama? You think people are calling for his job in Anarbor? Mcelwaine has how many SEC championships? Oh yeah, he has as many as Butch, zero. He won the east sure, we beat them so . . .

Why can't we hire sure fire head coaches with undefeated records like Strong, Gundy, Mullen, Freeze, Smart or all those other coaches that have done nothing but win national championships since taking over their respective programs. Volnation are a bunch of whiners who will never be satisfied until Gen'rul Neyland erupts from his grave to either coach again or slap the stupidity out of yall. Count this isn't directed at you personally, but the forum in general.

 

[Rifleman]

Simple win and loss totals should not be the measure of success. Context matters as much if not more. When Butch spouts off about winning 14 of 18 games, it's meaningless because it's across two seasons. If you beat Florida and Georgia and then lose to Vandy and USC in the same year then in my mind you accomplished exactly nothing.

Here's an accurate evaluation of Jones in 2016 with almost no numbers needed:

The SEC east was historically bad and maybe the most winnable in its history. UT played outside the state of Tennessee exactly 3 out of 13 games and 2 of those games were against first year head coaches. Just let that sink in. Ten games inside the state. Who has ever has a schedule more favorable? UT beat Florida and then proceeded to hand it right back to them with horrid losses to a high schooler and a perennial 14th place team. The path to winning the SEC east will never ever be as easy for Tennessee as it was in 2016 and Butch became the first adult in history who failed to take candy from a baby.

Context behind numbers matters.

Sure, current context matters, but people who ignore historical benchmarks almost always make bad decisions.

Context: without the rash of injuries this year, Butch's seat would be among the nation's hottest right now with losses to Vandy and a USC QB in diapers.

If Butch has a repeat of this season next year, 4-4 in the SEC, it should take an extraordinary context to save his job.

If the new AD does not provide leadership at that point, then the fanbase will be forced to "educate" him/her on the historical expectations at Tennessee by withdrawing our fiscal support for Tennessee football.