A Fair Benchmark for Butch: 6-2 in SEC or: Why the Negas have a Point

#1

Rifleman

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#1
We posted a 9-4 record this year = 69.2%

Our 826–368–54 record all time = 68.3%

A string of seasons like the one we just endured would leave Butch outperforming slightly Tennessee's all time record . . . and yet it would probably get him fired fairly quickly.

This might seem unfair, but it is mostly because of the success of two coaches which we feel are the benchmark for Tennessee football:

Under General Neyland

173–31–12 = 80.1% (this includes an 83% conference win percentage and 8 conference titles)

Under Coach Fulmer


152 - 52 = 74.5% (74.2% in conference and 2 conference titles)

As Vol fans we tend to default to the successes under these two coaches as the norm, and not as extraordinary.

But what about other great Vol coaches? The stats for the four most noteworthy are also impressive:

Doug Dickey: 73.8% in 65 games (67.6% in conference)
Bill Battle: 72.3% in 83 games (54.9% in conference)
Johnny Majors: 64.5% in 186 games (58.5% in conference a 3 SEC titles)
Bowden Wyatt: 62.2% in 82 games (55.4% in conference and 1 title)

If we take the records of these six coaches over 836 games, then you get a 71.2% total and a 66.9% conference win percentage.

Since these guys could tie their opponents, and that is no longer possible, it is reasonable to allocate ties 50/50 to the wins and losses columns (and more than fair). That changes the numbers to what I believe is a reasonable expectation for winning percentages for an average Tennessee coach who holds the job for more than 4 years:

1) win 73% of all games,
2) and, most critically, 69% of SEC games.

Yes Butch has rebuilt this program to respectability, but he is 14-18 in SEC play to date. This year we actually took a step backwards from 5-3 to 4-4. That is simply not good enough at Tennessee. The percentages from the coaches who laid the bedrock of this program suggest that a 6-2 SEC campaign is just slightly above the average for a long term coach. 5-3 is 62.5% and 6-2 is 75%.

Our tradition is winning SEC games against traditional football powerhouses, not just beating up inferior FBS teams and B1G also rans in 2nd tier bowl games. There is no reason that a Tennessee coach who cannot post a 6-2 record in conference in 5 years time cannot be justifiably and fairly dismissed.

That is why, though I give him all the credit in the world based on where Dooley left us, next year could very well be the last for Butch Jones on Rocky Top.
 
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#3
#3
So if with this research you had found out that there was nothing to complain about - would you have shared it?
 
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#4
#4
Taking out the give me wins such as your Western Carolinas and Tennessee Techs, this would be Jones' records while at UT

2013- 2-7
2014- 4-6
2015- 6-4
2016- 6-4

Overall- 18-21 (.461 winning %)
 
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#5
#5
Numbers are an interesting thing. Using 6-2 which is winning 75% of the games:

- Fulmer would have met / exceeded that 11 out of 17 years (64.7%)
- Majors 3 out of 16 years (18.8%)
- Neyland 15 out of 21 years (71.4%)
- Battle 1 out of 7 years (14.3%)
- Wyatt 1 out of 8 years (12.5%)
 
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#6
#6
Taking out the give me wins such as your Western Carolinas and Tennessee Techs, this would be Jones' records while at UT

2013- 2-7
2014- 4-6
2015- 6-4
2016- 6-4

Overall- 18-21 (.461 winning %)

You really want to do that - if you do - go take out the cupcakes from the other coaches as well.
 
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#8
#8
Taking out the give me wins such as your Western Carolinas and Tennessee Techs, this would be Jones' records while at UT

2013- 2-7
2014- 4-6
2015- 6-4
2016- 6-4

Overall- 18-21 (.461 winning %)

All the other coaches had games like that also. You left that out.
 
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#9
#9
Taking out the give me wins such as your Western Carolinas and Tennessee Techs, this would be Jones' records while at UT

2013- 2-7
2014- 4-6
2015- 6-4
2016- 6-4

Overall- 18-21 (.461 winning %)

This is just stupid. Every team in the country has these games.
 
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#10
#10
SEC East is going to be pretty competitive next year.

Florida is Florida
Ga will be better
Sc will be better
Ky will be better
Mizz will be better probably
Vandy will be better even losing Cunningham (if they do)
 
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#11
#11
And what is really bad is that if you take the cupcakes from Dooley's last year - guess how many games he won ..... 1
 
#12
#12
You really want to do that - if you do - go take out the cupcakes from the other coaches as well.

We should

Only conference games should count when it comes to deciding on whether to keep a coach or to fire them

After all, we are trying to win the SEC

If a team can schedule 4 give me games a year, they only have to win 4 conference games (.500) to get to 8-4
 
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#13
#13
The SEC mark of 14-18 is most telling, and concerning to me. That is where it counts for most of us, and it is where we are most lacking currently.
 
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#16
#16
Taking out the give me wins such as your Western Carolinas and Tennessee Techs, this would be Jones' records while at UT

2013- 2-7
2014- 4-6
2015- 6-4
2016- 6-4

Overall- 18-21 (.461 winning %)
Guess next we will be removing the games that "we should have lost" as well? Like UGA this year? Guess we'll remove Syracuse and Arkansas from Fulmer in 98.
 
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#20
#20
So if with this research you had found out that there was nothing to complain about - would you have shared it?

We hear a lot of talk about the "standards and expectations" with regards to Tennessee football, so why not look at our history to establish what the standards and expectations are?
 
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#22
#22
SEC East is going to be pretty competitive next year.

Florida is Florida
Ga will be better
Sc will be better
Ky will be better
Mizz will be better probably
Vandy will be better even losing Cunningham (if they do)
Do you think Tennessee will be better next year?
 
#24
#24
We hear a lot of talk about the "standards and expectations" with regards to Tennessee football, so why not look at our history to establish what the standards and expectations are?

That wasn't the question - the question was if the research had been done and there was nothing to complain about then more than likely "no thread is started".
 
#25
#25
Guess next we will be removing the games that "we should have lost" as well? Like UGA this year? Guess we'll remove Syracuse and Arkansas from Fulmer in 98.

I left in all the teams in the SEC even what we consider give me wins in Vandy and Kentucky

I left in Missouri because they have only been a give me for the last two seasons

If you take out what are generally considered the cupcakes of our division, his record is even worse


If you want to get even more specific, his overall winning percentage against teams with winning records


You wont like any of those numbers either
 
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