A.D. Danny White; discussion thread

1. … find me a school that is killing it in wcbb without collective NIL funds....pretty sure UCONN is the only one.
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2. UCLA, USC, South Carolina, Texas, Notre Dame, UCONN and LSU will rule as long as NIL exists in its current format. They all have extensive NIL funds.
1. UConn has a well managed NIL collective. They do not publish fund raising results. They are very public in their efforts to attract donors. *

2. This in part contradicts 1. above.

NIL money helps convert suspects and prospects into signed recruits. The initial interest in the schools you have listed comes, for the most part, from their winning traditions.

* D’Amelio Huskies Collective - Connecticut Huskies Collective

 
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1. UConn has a well managed NIL collective. They do not publish fund raising results. They are very public in their efforts to attract donors. *

2. This in part contradicts 1. above.

NIL money helps convert suspects and prospects into signed recruits. The initial interest in the schools you have listed comes, for the most part, from their winning traditions.

* D’Amelio Huskies Collective - Connecticut Huskies Collective

Great, so not a single school exists that recruits extremely well without a collective!

Winning traditions don't matter when a player is down to their final 4 or 5 schools. NIL is what tips the scale in favor of the schools with robust NIL.

Stanford and Duke recruit pretty well, but they struggle to close with top kids bc they don't have robust NIL.
 
That narrative has been repeated on this board a lot but is there any evidence to support it?

The problem is that it does not make sense given how the coaching search played out.


Fat Cat donors: We fat cats won't given another $ to NIL so long as this experienced and generally beloved coach with multiple S16s on her resume is at the helm.

Danny White; Okay I understand. How about if I replace Kellie Harper with a coach who has one year of D1 experience at Marshall and who got crushed in the first round of the NCAA tournament?

Fat Cat donors: Hellya!! Our checkbooks are wide open.


To be clear, I am not disparaging CKC but this "the donors forced it" scenario only makes sense if White had brought in a more experienced coach, like Gottleib from USC or Moren from Indiana.

What makes more sense is that White decided that Kellie's coaching ceiling was not high enough and he saw CKC as a rising star who could advance the program. He has made similar hires before.
If fat cat donors were logical, they wouldn't donate to a college sport collective.

What is clear is that you only have an outside chance of making an elite 8 without robust NIL. And even fat cat donors know that.
 
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If fat cat donors were logical, they wouldn't donate to a college sport collective.

What is clear is that you only have an outside chance of making an elite 8 without robust NIL. And even fat cat donors know that.
There is no way to confirm actual NIL values.

This perspective seems naive and ill informed. I would agree that Kellie wasn’t getting enough money into the correct hands.
 
That narrative has been repeated on this board a lot but is there any evidence to support it?

The problem is that it does not make sense given how the coaching search played out.


Fat Cat donors: We fat cats won't given another $ to NIL so long as this experienced and generally beloved coach with multiple S16s on her resume is at the helm.

Danny White; Okay I understand. How about if I replace Kellie Harper with a coach who has one year of D1 experience at Marshall and who got crushed in the first round of the NCAA tournament?

Fat Cat donors: Hellya!! Our checkbooks are wide open.


To be clear, I am not disparaging CKC but this "the donors forced it" scenario only makes sense if White had brought in a more experienced coach, like Gottleib from USC or Moren from Indiana.

What makes more sense is that White decided that Kellie's coaching ceiling was not high enough and he saw CKC as a rising star who could advance the program. He has made similar hires before.
The first part can be true without the second part. Fat donors did not have confidence in Kellie therefore no NIL backing. NIL donors are supporting the change in the HOPE of success. I do believe the fat donors forced it. I also believe that they thought we could get a more experience coach. Rarely works that way. See Coach V our baseball coach. Big time programs pay their coaches enough to stay.
 
The first part can be true without the second part. Fat donors did not have confidence in Kellie therefore no NIL backing. NIL donors are supporting the change in the HOPE of success. I do believe the fat donors forced it. I also believe that they thought we could get a more experience coach. Rarely works that way. See Coach V our baseball coach. Big time programs pay their coaches enough to stay.
Agree, Tony V showed he can win with less first. His first game attendance to just a few weeks ago when they punched the ticket shows if you have the leadership right, the rest takes care of itself.
 
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You “know” this how?
Ask players, recruits and parents......it isn't some big secret...they are all pretty open about it ...both Stanford and Duke have to place a premium on the education and connections they can provide post college bc they lack robust NIL.
Obviously this can change at any time, but to this point that is how it has been. And no doubt these programs are trying to make inroads that result in NIL funding; it has just been a slow process.

To date, many recruits don't see past the immediate money being offered and don't see the investment value of a top tier education. Most of the kids/parents that choose Duke and Stanford have prioritized that value.
 
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Ask players, recruits and parents......it isn't some big secret...they are all pretty open about it ...both Stanford and Duke have to place a premium on the education and connections they can provide post college bc they lack robust NIL.
Obviously this can change at any time, but to this point that is how it has been. And no doubt these programs are trying to make inroads that result in NIL funding; it has just been a slow process.

To date, many recruits don't see past the immediate money being offered and don't see the investment value of a top tier education. Most of the kids/parents that choose Duke and Stanford have prioritized that value.
Most overvalue their own deemed market value.
 
Ask players, recruits and parents......it isn't some big secret...they are all pretty open about it ...both Stanford and Duke have to place a premium on the education and connections they can provide post college bc they lack robust NIL.
Obviously this can change at any time, but to this point that is how it has been. And no doubt these programs are trying to make inroads that result in NIL funding; it has just been a slow process.

To date, many recruits don't see past the immediate money being offered and don't see the investment value of a top tier education. Most of the kids/parents that choose Duke and Stanford have prioritized that value.

Maybe both of those schools are just slow getting into the NIL game. You know they have big $ alumni that could contribute to a collective. Your last sentence is one of things Saban stated about his retirement decision. (I live in AL so I know AL stuff without wanting to, ha)
 
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Maybe both of those schools are just slow getting into the NIL game. You know they have big $ alumni that could contribute to a collective. Your last sentence is one of things Saban stated about his retirement decision. (I live in AL so I know AL stuff without wanting to, ha)
I think big money donors to those two schools are more likely to prioritize donations to the library and science and tech depts than athletics. SEC fans are more likely to dump the kid's lunch money into Nico's Lamborghini.

IMO, when it comes to the top tippy top of WBB top recruits, it does come down to winning championships. At that level, the schools are likely to be able to come up with matching funds up to the point they think the recruit is worth it. So it becomes a question of fit and winning potential. The top tier will get their $ wherever they go amongst the top programs. SC was not going to lose Joyce Edwards bc someone else offered more money.
 
Ask players, recruits and parents......it isn't some big secret...they are all pretty open about it ...both Stanford and Duke have to place a premium on the education and connections they can provide post college bc they lack robust NIL.
Obviously this can change at any time, but to this point that is how it has been. And no doubt these programs are trying to make inroads that result in NIL funding; it has just been a slow process.

To date, many recruits don't see past the immediate money being offered and don't see the investment value of a top tier education. Most of the kids/parents that choose Duke and Stanford have prioritized that value.

Agree! Often that "investment value" of a "top tier" school is vastly overblown or diminished for most chosen degrees. *Most* WBB recruits aren't doing premed, finance, or engineering. I mean look at the 2022-2023 Tennessee Lady Vols basketball roster along with their academic majors:

Jordan Horston - Major: Psychology
Tamari Key - Major: Recreation and Sport Management
Sara Puckett - Major: Kinesiology
Rickea Jackson - Major: Communication Studies
Brooklynn Miles - Major: Kinesiology
Jasmine Franklin - Major: Sociology
Justine Pissott - Major: Recreation and Sport Management
Jillian Hollingshead - Major: Kinesiology
Edie Darby - Major: Public Relations
Tess Darby - Major: Finance
Karoline Striplin - Major: Kinesiology
Kaiya Wynn - Major: Business

Out of those, Tess and Kaiya might have degrees that might have a tiny preference regarding where you graduated from. But I would argue that the LV network would afford as many career opportunities as anything Stanford or Duke could afford.

Listen, NIL matters. If you could graduate with $250k in your brokerage account, you would be crazy not to. There's very little chance of making it in the W and even if you do the pay is "meh". You have to maximize your earning years in this sport because you are almost certainly done by age 35.
 
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Agree! Often that "investment value" of a "top tier" school is vastly overblown or diminished for most chosen degrees. *Most* WBB recruits aren't doing premed, finance, or engineering. I mean look at the 2022-2023 Tennessee Lady Vols basketball roster along with their academic majors:

Jordan Horston - Major: Psychology
Tamari Key - Major: Recreation and Sport Management
Sara Puckett - Major: Kinesiology
Rickea Jackson - Major: Communication Studies
Brooklynn Miles - Major: Kinesiology
Jasmine Franklin - Major: Sociology
Justine Pissott - Major: Recreation and Sport Management
Jillian Hollingshead - Major: Kinesiology
Edie Darby - Major: Public Relations
Tess Darby - Major: Finance
Karoline Striplin - Major: Kinesiology
Kaiya Wynn - Major: Business

Out of those, Tess and Kaiya might have degrees that might have a tiny preference regarding where you graduated from. But I would argue that the LV network would afford as many career opportunities as anything Stanford or Duke could afford.

Listen, NIL matters. If you could graduate with $250k in your brokerage account, you would be crazy not to. There's very little chance of making it in the W and even if you do the pay is "meh". You have to maximize your earning years in this sport because you are almost certainly done by age 35.
Kaiya has openly said she wants to go to medical school, so she is at least taking those pre-reqs. Declared majors tell a lot of the story but not the entire story. Joyce Edwards wanted to study environmental engineering, and Dawn organized a visit with the Honor's Program at USC, which is quite prestigious, to reassure Joyce that plan of study was possible. Now, with the professionalization of college sports, I imagine we might be seeing the beginning of the end of rigorous study for Power 4 athletes.
 
Kaiya has openly said she wants to go to medical school, so she is at least taking those pre-reqs. Declared majors tell a lot of the story but not the entire story. Joyce Edwards wanted to study environmental engineering, and Dawn organized a visit with the Honor's Program at USC, which is quite prestigious, to reassure Joyce that plan of study was possible. Now, with the professionalization of college sports, I imagine we might be seeing the beginning of the end of rigorous study for Power 4 athletes.

Yes, engineering is one of the degrees where prestige or even availability of the degree might come into play. See Josh Dobbs. But for 90% of players this is not going to be one of the top factors. I would venture to guess for at least 3/4 of the recruits NIL is going to be more important than academic prestige.
 
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The first part can be true without the second part. Fat donors did not have confidence in Kellie therefore no NIL backing. NIL donors are supporting the change in the HOPE of success. I do believe the fat donors forced it. I also believe that they thought we could get a more experience coach. Rarely works that way. See Coach V our baseball coach. Big time programs pay their coaches enough to stay.

Weird narrative on this board. It has pivoted from Danny White was not going to keep accepting mediocrity and went out got the coach he wanted to now, poor Danny was forced to fire Kellie by the donors.

If the donors were the driver, I can guarantee that Kim Caldwell would not be the head coach or that the search would have been so precursory.

Of course, this is a message board so everyone is free to live in their own private idaho (Chuckiepoo that's for you!!!!)
 
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Weird narrative on this board. We had been that Danny White was not going to keep accepting mediocrity and went out got the coach he wanted to now, poor Danny was forced to fire Kellie by the donors.

If the donors were the driver, I can guarantee that Kim Caldwell would not be the head coach or that the search would have been so precursory.

Of course, this is a message board so everyone is free to live in their own private idaho (Chuckiepoo that's for you!!!!)
In the summer, we can talk ourselves into almost anything.
 
I've had more than one person tell me that DW told them that CKH was let go because she didn't advance in the tournament with 'Final Four Talent'. If that is true, he has no clue about what it takes to succeed in College Women's Basketball.

Weird narrative on this board. It has pivoted from Danny White was not going to keep accepting mediocrity and went out got the coach he wanted to now, poor Danny was forced to fire Kellie by the donors.

If the donors were the driver, I can guarantee that Kim Caldwell would not be the head coach or that the search would have been so precursory.

Of course, this is a message board so everyone is free to live in their own private idaho (Chuckiepoo that's for you!!!!)
 
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I've had more than one person tell me that DW told them that CKH was let go because she didn't advance in the tournament with 'Final Four Talent. If that is true, he has no clue about what it takes to succeed in College Women's Basketball.
Neither do you. So there’s that
 
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