_Vols in NC...get out and vote!!! Need your help. MAY 8

#526
#526
Slydell said:
What about Freedom from Religion?
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Careful Sly, once they get the gays under control, atheists may be next. Can't have "abominations" and "heathens" running rampant. Their God wouldn't like that.



Sorry for the sarcasm but I'm allowing myself a moment of weakness. I've tried to stay calm and level-headed in my arguements, but my anger meter's at full. People don't realize the effect they have upon the lives of others. It flabbergasts me.
 
#528
#528
Weezer said:
Careful Sly, once they get the gays under control, atheists may be next. Can't have "abominations" and "heathens" running rampant. Their God wouldn't like that.



Sorry for the sarcasm but I'm allowing myself a moment of weakness. I've tried to stay calm and level-headed in my arguements, but my anger meter's at full. People don't realize the effect they have upon the lives of others. It flabbergasts me.
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It is disturbing on many levels. This law is nothing more than a hate crime against humanity.
 
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#529
#529
Weezer said:
Careful Sly, once they get the gays under control, atheists may be next. Can't have "abominations" and "heathens" running rampant. Their God wouldn't like that.



Sorry for the sarcasm but I'm allowing myself a moment of weakness. I've tried to stay calm and level-headed in my arguements, but my anger meter's at full. People don't realize the effect they have upon the lives of others. It flabbergasts me.
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Trying to stay calm myself but I simply cannot grasp why so many are so adamantly opposed to equal rights for the LGBT community - and that really is what it boils down to. I personally want the same federal and state rights afforded to heterosexuals. I do feel that government should be out of marriage altogether and move to a civil union based benefit structure. The problem is that we do not have that today, and marriage is the only avenue for many benefits and rights - including medical decision making (and even visitation rights). Really frustrating but I do feel we are slowly moving in the right direction.

And for those who are so confident that homosexuality is a choice, while I respect your opinion, how in the world could you possibly know that if you are not gay? I don't presume to know what its like to be attracted to the opposite sex - for me that feels just as unnatural as being attracted to the same sex feels to you (and always has).
 
#530
#530
gcbvol said:
Trying to stay calm myself but I simply cannot grasp why so many are so adamantly opposed to equal rights for the LGBT community - and that really is what it boils down to. I personally want the same federal and state rights afforded to heterosexuals. I do feel that government should be out of marriage altogether and move to a civil union based benefit structure. The problem is that we do not have that today, and marriage is the only avenue for many benefits and rights - including medical decision making (and even visitation rights). Really frustrating but I do feel we are slowly moving in the right direction.

And for those who are so confident that homosexuality is a choice, while I respect your opinion, how in the world could you possibly know that if you are not gay? I don't presume to know what its like to be attracted to the opposite sex - for me that feels just as unnatural as being attracted to the same sex feels to you (and always has).
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I am not gay myself, but as I stated in another thread on this topic, my nephew is. He's the closest thing I have to a son in this life as he lived with me a good portion of his life. I have no idea if he plans on ever getting married, but I want him to be free to make that choice for himself and not have blind ignorance make that choice for him. He deserves that. This country was founded on the ideal of freedom. People always say freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom of the press... the one common word is freedom. Taking away someone's right to choose for themselves is anything but freedom. No matter how hard they argue or how much they hide behind the Bible, they choose to remain willfully ignorant to the fact Jesus forced no one to follow Him nor believe in Him. He left the choice to them, something they are unwilling to do.
 
#531
#531
Ever considered you could interpret the Bible to say heterosexuality is wrong as well? I know all the arguements you'll use to bash this idea, so no need to throw them at me, but I felt like pointing something out. To those out there who are against gay marriage and use the Bible for your logic, I ask you, when you first met your wife, were your thoughts pure? Let's face it, we all know how hormones work and the lust they create. But wait, lust is a sin, right? Yet lust is what led you to women. Using that logic, then heterosexuality is a sin because you were drawn to it by lust. Time to start gouging some eyes out maybe? Food for thought.


And yeah, you're damn right that's reaching, but the Bible is open to interpretations. Keep that in mind when enforcing your "Biblical" views upon others.
 
#532
#532
Weezer said:
Ever considered you could interpret the Bible to say heterosexuality is wrong as well? I know all the arguements you'll use to bash this idea, so no need to throw them at me, but I felt like pointing something out. To those out there who are against gay marriage and use the Bible for your logic, I ask you, when you first met your wife, were your thoughts pure? Let's face it, we all know how hormones work and the lust they create. But wait, lust is a sin, right? Yet lust is what led you to women. Using that logic, then heterosexuality is a sin because you were drawn to it by lust. Time to start gouging some eyes out maybe? Food for thought.


And yeah, you're damn right that's reaching, but the Bible is open to interpretations. Keep that in mind when enforcing your "Biblical" views upon others.
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Man has the ability to overcome lust. There are tons of people who lust, in fact, no one is immune to it. But there are plenty of people who don't dwell on the lust, and push it out of their minds. And if you think the only reason people marry is because of lust, then you're flat out wrong.

Show me in the bible where heterosexuality is wrong. There are plenty for homosexuality I can get. God hates lust. God hates lust for the same sex. End of story.
 
#533
#533
Weezer said:
Ever considered you could interpret the Bible to say heterosexuality is wrong as well? I know all the arguements you'll use to bash this idea, so no need to throw them at me, but I felt like pointing something out. To those out there who are against gay marriage and use the Bible for your logic, I ask you, when you first met your wife, were your thoughts pure? Let's face it, we all know how hormones work and the lust they create. But wait, lust is a sin, right? Yet lust is what led you to women. Using that logic, then heterosexuality is a sin because you were drawn to it by lust. Time to start gouging some eyes out maybe? Food for thought.


And yeah, you're damn right that's reaching, but the Bible is open to interpretations. Keep that in mind when enforcing your "Biblical" views upon others.
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That is the key right there. IMO. You don't like certain passages, figure out a way around them. What? Kill my family..Uh, probably means kill them with kindness. It seems to me, in today's society, that it's nothing more than a pick and choose book. Pick something to support your personal point of view and marginalize the rest as blah, blah, blah that was 1500 years or so ago.
 
#534
#534
BigPapaCat said:
Man has the ability to overcome lust. There are tons of people who lust, in fact, no one is immune to it. But there are plenty of people who don't dwell on the lust, and push it out of their minds. And if you think the only reason people marry is because of lust, then you're flat out wrong.

Show me in the bible where heterosexuality is wrong. There are plenty for homosexuality I can get. God hates lust. God hates lust for the same sex. End of story.
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You're assuming there is a God.
 
#535
#535
BigPapaCat said:
Man has the ability to overcome lust. There are tons of people who lust, in fact, no one is immune to it. But there are plenty of people who don't dwell on the lust, and push it out of their minds. And if you think the only reason people marry is because of lust, then you're flat out wrong.

Show me in the bible where heterosexuality is wrong. There are plenty for homosexuality I can get. God hates lust. God hates lust for the same sex. End of story.
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One, I knew people would point out the obvious which is why I said you could keep those arguements to yourself, I know them. Two, man has the ability to overcome lust, yet the Bible says lust is a sin. Whether you overcome it or not, you've still sinned in the eyes of the Lord. And yes, a great many men, even "Christian" men, chase after women based on lust. How many women do you see and think, "Hey, I bet she's smart and funny and I'd like to get to know her even though she's not that pretty"? Try answering that honestly and not with excuses. Three, are you single? If so, do you occassionally self-love? I'm going to guess yes because you would be in a very small minority if you didn't. So when you do, what are you thinking about? Puppies? What your day's gonna be like? How you need to change the oil in your car? Gonna make a wild guess and say it's about an attractive woman, which would equal lust.

The only point I was making is 10 people can read the same verse and all 10 people could get a different meaning from it. Truthfully, the entire Bible is interpretation. The original was written in Hebrew. Don't know if you have ever translated anything to another language, but lots of interpretation is used because it's impossible to literally translate verbatim from one language to another. Nuances are easily missed and the whole meaning of a passage can be changed. IMO, the "the Bible says" defense is just a croc. It's hard to know what the Bible is really saying. All you know is what you think it says.
 
#536
#536
First of all, lots of ignorance in this thread.

Secondly, why does the government need to be involved in marriage? Homosexual or heterosexual.
 
#537
#537
BigPapaCat said:
Modern society really sucks now.
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yes it does because we keep taking steps backwards. The bible is not, never has been and will never be law in the US. Forcing people to live under it is not advancing as a people in any way
 
#540
#540
Slydell said:
You're assuming there is a God.
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Correct. But of course from my view that's the only logical way the world exists.

Weezer said:
One, I knew people would point out the obvious which is why I said you could keep those arguements to yourself, I know them. Two, man has the ability to overcome lust, yet the Bible says lust is a sin. Whether you overcome it or not, you've still sinned in the eyes of the Lord. And yes, a great many men, even "Christian" men, chase after women based on lust. How many women do you see and think, "Hey, I bet she's smart and funny and I'd like to get to know her even though she's not that pretty"? Try answering that honestly and not with excuses. Three, are you single? If so, do you occassionally self-love? I'm going to guess yes because you would be in a very small minority if you didn't. So when you do, what are you thinking about? Puppies? What your day's gonna be like? How you need to change the oil in your car? Gonna make a wild guess and say it's about an attractive woman, which would equal lust.

The only point I was making is 10 people can read the same verse and all 10 people could get a different meaning from it. Truthfully, the entire Bible is interpretation. The original was written in Hebrew. Don't know if you have ever translated anything to another language, but lots of interpretation is used because it's impossible to literally translate verbatim from one language to another. Nuances are easily missed and the whole meaning of a passage can be changed. IMO, the "the Bible says" defense is just a croc. It's hard to know what the Bible is really saying. All you know is what you think it says.
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How can it be interpreted any differently. God (the basis for most anti-gay marriage people) put it as plain as can be.

For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."
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#541
#541
BigPapaCat said:
.
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I am not sure where you are getting this information; however, Jefferson did not believe that Jesus was divine. If you still regard him as a Christian with that caveat, then that is up to you. As for deists, they are not closely related to "anti-clerical Christians"; they simply believe that there was an initial creator of some sort but that creator is not personal and has not interfered since the creation.
 
#544
#544
therealUT said:
I am not sure where you are getting this information; however, Jefferson did not believe that Jesus was divine. If you still regard him as a Christian with that caveat, then that is up to you. As for deists, they are not closely related to "anti-clerical Christians"; they simply believe that there was an initial creator of some sort but that creator is not personal and has not interfered since the creation.
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I looked at two different sites. One said deist and one said anti-clerical. I don't know which one is correct, it doesn't matter anyway.
 
#546
#546
BigPapaCat said:
I looked at two different sites. One said deist and one said anti-clerical. I don't know which one is correct, it doesn't matter anyway.
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Well, it does matter if you are trying to claim that the philosophy of the major contributors to our founding documents was overtly Christian; deists are not Christians and Jefferson did not believe that Jesus was divine.

The major influence upon the founding fathers was not religious, it was philosophical (specifically 17th and 18th Century British Moral Philosophy). The influence is rooted in Hobbes, Locke, Mandeville, and Hume. Of those four men, three are branded as atheists and only one professes Christianity.

The radical work that directly inspired the revolution was written by Thomas Paine, who actually railed against religion on numerous occasions.
 
#547
#547
therealUT said:
Theocracies are great, aren't they?
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TRUT_ you're far too intelligent to believe we live in a theocracy. Democracy spoke through a popular vote of the people for the 30th time. I would like to see Ron Paul elected. Not gonna happen though. When it doesn't I won't fault the system, I know that's illogical. You do, too.
 
#548
#548
therealUT said:
Certainly something of which you can be proud. If 6,999,999,998 persons thought homosexuals did not deserve equal treatment under the law, and one homosexual couple thought otherwise; the one homosexual couple would be right.
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Do you really care what north Carolina does?
 
#549
#549
marcusluvsvols said:
TRUT_ you're far too intelligent to believe we live in a theocracy. Democracy spoke through a popular vote of the people for the 30th time. I would like to see Ron Paul elected. Not gonna happen though. When it doesn't I won't fault the system, I know that's illogical. You do, too.
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Democracy spoke through a popular vote to deny equal treatment under the law based solely on a theological pretext: that is theocratic.
 
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