98 vs 2001

#105
#105
BigOrangeTrain said:
Let’s see a retort to my statement.
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Prima facie. JG was/is a head case. Tee Martin was an NC winning QB. Doesn’t matter what the out of context “stats” say. Martin had a much different role to play. Night vs day.

You probably think JG’s WSU stats looked pretty good too lol. Maybe you should take your argument to their boards? I’m sure they’ll see things your way.
 
#106
#106
Woke said:
Prima facie. JG was/is a head case. Tee Martin was an NC winning QB. Doesn’t matter what the out of context “stats” say. Martin had a much different role to play. Night vs day.

You probably think JG’s WSU stats looked pretty good too lol. Maybe you should take your argument to their boards? I’m sure they’ll see things your way.
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JG was a bad QB here. Martin had a different role to play? Like what? Tee was a QB just like JG. Yes Tee was on a team that won a NC. But the fact that you don’t take the team around him and the coaching staff into account says a lot. You want to ignore stars yet that is the measuring stick of how good a QB is.
 
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#107
#107
BigOrangeTrain said:
JG was a bad QB here. Martin had a different role to play? Like what? Tee was a QB just like JG. Yes Tee was on a team that won a NC. But the fact that you don’t take the team around him and the coaching staff into account says a lot. You want to ignore stars yet that is the measuring stick of how good a QB is.[/QUOTE

That’s right Martin had an even tougher job as a QB steering a NC level team having to not try to win games on his own by taking risks and pumping up meaningless stats in garbage time. Instead he had to make key plays at key times to keep our NC hopes afloat. By contrast JG is a head case who choked in even meaningless games.

Again take your argument to the WSU boards I’m sure they’ll agree with you lol.

Performance in context is all that matters in life and for QBs as well. Star ratings are an effing joke w/o the game day performance to prove them out. Plenty of 4- and 5-star busts in the world and we should know bc we’ve recruited far more than our share.
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#108
#108

You continue to show a complete lack of understanding when it comes to a team sport. You are right. Martin was the reason we won it in 1998. The great defense, running game or coaching staff had nothing to do with it. It was his below 60% accuracy, fewer than 20 passing TDs and less than 3000 passing yards that won it. Sure thing bud 😂😂😂😂.
 
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#109
#109
Tee made plays with his legs and while 2001 had Stallworth & The Future, neither was as outstanding as Price. Edge to 1998.
 
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#110
#110
BigOrangeTrain said:
I can agree with this. However just like in 2001, I would have hated to have went to the NC game in 1995. That Nebraska team would have absolutely demolished us like the 2001 Hurricanes would have.
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Disagree, went to Miami the next year with much less talented team and beat them in their stadium. I liked our chances in 2001 against anyone if we show up with our mind right.
 
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#111
#111
BigOrangeTrain said:
You continue to show a complete lack of understanding when it comes to a team sport. You are right. Martin was the reason we won it in 1998. The great defense, running game or coaching staff had nothing to do with it. It was his below 60% accuracy, fewer than 20 passing TDs and less than 3000 passing yards that won it. Sure thing bud 😂😂😂😂.
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Name’s not Bud. Watch the personal comments about my “complete lack of understanding” bc it won’t end well for you.

On a NC caliber team with tons of NFL level O weapons you want a game manager at QB not a gunslinger who tries to win it all (or lose it all) on his arm. Ask Nick Saban.

Tee’s stats were EXACTLY what was required behind center in ‘98 to manage games and let the other O weapons loose to do their thing. Forcing throws would only have gotten us beat. Of course what you’re leaving out was Tee’s ability to think anticipate and make clutch plays in key game winning situations because those qualities aren’t measured in the conventional “stats”.

You’re entitled to your fanatical opinion as lame as it may be but now its become tiresome and outgrown its initial mild diversionary entertainment value for me. Peace out
 
#112
#112
realmenwearorange said:
Disagree, went to Miami the next year with much less talented team and beat them in their stadium. I liked our chances in 2001 against anyone if we show up with our mind right.
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That wasn’t the next year, that was 2003. Miami throttled Tennessee in Knoxville in 2002. The 2001 and 2003 Miami squads aren’t comparable in terms of talent.
 
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#114
#114
realmenwearorange said:
I stand corrected, its was so many years ago and they all seem to blend in together
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I don’t necessarily disagree with your sentiment that Tennessee would have at least had a chance in the Rose Bowl. The one issue Miami had that year was that Dorsey struggled against teams that were able to generate a consistent pass rush. Tennessee certainly had the defensive line to get to Dorsey.
 
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#116
#116
realmenwearorange said:
Disagree, went to Miami the next year with much less talented team and beat them in their stadium. I liked our chances in 2001 against anyone if we show up with our mind right.
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I'm neutral on this one, 2003 team went into Winslow soldier boy stadium, and had Miami coming off a VA tech loss, five turnovers for Miami, many penalties, we played keep away and won, thanks to a a dropped punt return, 2003 underachieved, give them credit they upset #4 and Miamis home win streak
 
#117
#117
Woke said:
Name’s not Bud. Watch the personal comments about my “complete lack of understanding” bc it won’t end well for you.

On a NC caliber team with tons of NFL level O weapons you want a game manager at QB not a gunslinger who tries to win it all (or lose it all) on his arm. Ask Nick Saban.

Tee’s stats were EXACTLY what was required behind center in ‘98 to manage games and let the other O weapons loose to do their thing. Forcing throws would only have gotten us beat. Of course what you’re leaving out was Tee’s ability to think anticipate and make clutch plays in key game winning situations because those qualities aren’t measured in the conventional “stats”.

You’re entitled to your fanatical opinion as lame as it may be but now its become tiresome and outgrown its initial mild diversionary entertainment value for me. Peace out
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Thanks for reinforcing my opinion of your lack of understanding of a team sport like football.
 
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#118
#118
MemphisVol77 said:
Peerless is clearly the best, I won't argue that.

Peerless Price (2nd rd NFL), Cedric Wilson (6th rd NFL), Jermaine Copeland (CFL), & David Martin (6th rd NFL).

Josh Palmer (3rd rd NFL), Jauan Jennings (7th rd NFL), M. Callaway (UDFA NFL), & Dominick Wood Anderson (UDFA NFL).

That's close.
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David Martin was drafted into the NFL as a TE. He only played WR in college, and was slower than molasses.
 
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#119
#119
On Tee, total stats don't really tell the whole story. Look at the 1999 season, going by stats, he looked rather pedestrian. However, you're leaving out the injuries he sustained in the Florida game to his non-throwing shoulder, which hampered him. He was also a notoriously slow starter. A below average QB doesn't finish the season 1st Team All SEC. There were games that year that Tee carried us on his back against Top 10 opponents (UGA and Bama in Tuscaloosa). He might not have been a "great conventional QB" by that era's standards, but he was a great playmaker at the QB position for us (and was still drafted and stayed in the league for about 5 years, much longer than Casey Clausen lasted).

After a bad start, he then had 2-3 SEC Player of the week against ranked UGA, Bama, and Notre Dame. I am pretty sure Georgia was favored against us and Tee completely dominated that game. He then dominated against Bama in Tuscaloosa, who were around the Top 5 and won the SEC Championship that year. After that game, Sports Illustrated called him "the best player in college football." At that point, he looked like it. In the Arkansas game, Jamal Lewis cost us more than Tee's performance when he bobbled an easy catch right into the defenders hands.

Plus there was a severe dropoff in WR production that year. Cedric was a slot guy trying to replace Peerless. David Martin was too slow to be a WR and Stallworth hadn't learned to run his routes yet. Eric Parker lasted a few years in the NFL as a punt returner, but was never a real threat at WR. In fact, going by recruiting ratings, it might have been the worst recruited group we'd had on campus. Only Stallworth was considered a big time prospect, and he was nowhere near ready to contribute regularly in 1999. They were either extremely inexperienced (Stallworth), unheralded (Parker, Wilson), or playing out of position (David Martin).

All in all, it's fair to say that by conventional standards that Tee wasn't statistically a great QB. At the same time, he was a great playmaker for us. The biggest crime is that Fulmer didn't redshirt him his freshman year. He needed an extra year to develop more.
 
#120
#120
perico said:
On Tee, total stats don't really tell the whole story. Look at the 1999 season, going by stats, he looked rather pedestrian. However, you're leaving out the injuries he sustained in the Florida game to his non-throwing shoulder, which hampered him. He was also a notoriously slow starter. A below average QB doesn't finish the season 1st Team All SEC. There were games that year that Tee carried us on his back against Top 10 opponents (UGA and Bama in Tuscaloosa). He might not have been a "great conventional QB" by that era's standards, but he was a great playmaker at the QB position for us (and was still drafted and stayed in the league for about 5 years, much longer than Casey Clausen lasted).

After a bad start, he then had 2-3 SEC Player of the week against ranked UGA, Bama, and Notre Dame. I am pretty sure Georgia was favored against us and Tee completely dominated that game. He then dominated against Bama in Tuscaloosa, who were around the Top 5 and won the SEC Championship that year. After that game, Sports Illustrated called him "the best player in college football." At that point, he looked like it. In the Arkansas game, Jamal Lewis cost us more than Tee's performance when he bobbled an easy catch right into the defenders hands.

Plus there was a severe dropoff in WR production that year. Cedric was a slot guy trying to replace Peerless. David Martin was too slow to be a WR and Stallworth hadn't learned to run his routes yet. Eric Parker lasted a few years in the NFL as a punt returner, but was never a real threat at WR. In fact, going by recruiting ratings, it might have been the worst recruited group we'd had on campus. Only Stallworth was considered a big time prospect, and he was nowhere near ready to contribute regularly in 1999. They were either extremely inexperienced (Stallworth), unheralded (Parker, Wilson), or playing out of position (David Martin).

All in all, it's fair to say that by conventional standards that Tee wasn't statistically a great QB. At the same time, he was a great playmaker for us. The biggest crime is that Fulmer didn't redshirt him his freshman year. He needed an extra year to develop more.
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I
 
#121
#121
MurphyVol said:
I
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I love Tee but I think he greatly benefitted from his supporting cast. I really can't find any info about 5 years in the NFL....I was thinking he was only there 1 season, but it looks like after he was initially cut he was out of the league for a year and then spent 1 more year on a roster with the Raiders.

On the below games, I really felt we won in spite of him and not because of him

Syracuse 9-26 143 yards 2TD 80 yards rushing

Florida 5-13 91 yards 0TD 1INT 25 yards rushing

Auburn 5-14 68 yards 0TD -18 yards rushing

Arkansas 10-27 155 yards 1TD 1INT 8 yards rushing
 
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#122
#122
MurphyVol said:
I love Tee but I think he greatly benefitted from his supporting cast. I really can't find any info about 5 years in the NFL....I was thinking he was only there 1 season, but it looks like after he was initially cut he was out of the league for a year and then spent 1 more year on a roster with the Raiders.

On the below games, I really felt we won in spite of him and not because of him

Syracuse 9-26 143 yards 2TD 80 yards rushing

Florida 5-13 91 yards 0TD 1INT 25 yards rushing

Auburn 5-14 68 yards 0TD -18 yards rushing

Arkansas 10-27 155 yards 1TD 1INT 8 yards rushing
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This imagine what Bray and Ainge and Hooker would do with that offensive line, running game and stacked defense
 
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#123
#123
2001 was just loaded with talent and had their own leader in Casey Clausen. Not sure they had the overall high character that '98 had, which was one reason the '01 team fell in love themselves after beating Florida and was not locked in mentally vs LSU for the SEC title game (my 2nd most painful loss in UT football history). Did that group really return from Gainesville to a celebration at Tom Black Track where the players were walking around with roses clenched in their teeth (for the Rose Bowl where they would have played Miami for the national title) ? Indicates how much they took LSU for granted in the following week's SECCG.

The program was never quite the same after that loss.
 
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#124
#124
EconVol92 said:
98 had coach Cut, that was the magic ingredient. Look at Fulmer’s record with and without him.

I understand that he was gone before the national championship game, but he was the glue that held everything together.
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Really good point.

Coach Cutcliffe was the task-master who kept practices structured and focused. The teams he was not here for did not quite have the attention to detail that others had.
I think we win that '01 SEC championship with Cutcliffe in the booth running the offense. He would have made needed adjustments in the 2nd half.
Tennessee should have hired him as head coach instead of Butch Jones in 2014. He demanded bringing his staff from Duke with him - seems very reasonable to me.
 
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#125
#125
MurphyVol said:
I love Tee but I think he greatly benefitted from his supporting cast. I really can't find any info about 5 years in the NFL....I was thinking he was only there 1 season, but it looks like after he was initially cut he was out of the league for a year and then spent 1 more year on a roster with the Raiders.

On the below games, I really felt we won in spite of him and not because of him

Syracuse 9-26 143 yards 2TD 80 yards rushing

Florida 5-13 91 yards 0TD 1INT 25 yards rushing

Auburn 5-14 68 yards 0TD -18 yards rushing

Arkansas 10-27 155 yards 1TD 1INT 8 yards rushing
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Tee Martin had his limitations, except for one area -

Tee had that intangible determination to win that I'm not sure Peyton ever had.
Manning was known for his superior preparation and ability to read defenses and, of course, his arm.
But he did not have that iron will to compete and win that Tee Martin had, at least at UT.
I remember Peyton actually panicking under pressure vs Florida in '97 and throwing that killer pick-6 when we were in the red zone.
The '98 game vs Florida in Knoxville was the ultimate test of will between two teams and Martin came out on top.
Obviously, Peyton had much more talent than Martin did - but Tee was mentally tougher.
 
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