4 stars are better than 3 stars #fact

Does this make sense? I fully concede that recruiting services have imperfect information, but the evidence suggests that it is good enough for us fans to use as a barometer to know whether we are keeping up with the Sabans and such. To state this slightly differently, I don't have any reason to believe that the lesser ranked players we are getting are "diamonds in the rough". I have no reason to believe that Dooley and Co. know something that the rest of the coaches in the SEC don't know. And so stargazing, while imperfect, is much more constructive than star ignoring.

Well said. I prefer a balance between the two sides with an inclination to trust the coaches over the services. I can put on a visor and rate kids, and I'm betting I could get close to rivals and scout. I may miss a few things here and there, but in general I'll get close. This, to me, is how the services are to the coaches: close, but they don't have the deep expertise and contact that the coaches have with these kids and their own programs.

Another measely two cents worth..
 
I actually agree with a lot of what you said here. There is no doubt in my mind that Derek Dooley has better information on recruits than does Brent Hubbs. Zero doubt. With this information, Dooley and his staff are able to put together various lists and sub-lists that are more informed than the lists you see at Rivals. I agree with every bit of that.

But I'm also certain that if you were to take the Rivals list and put it up side by side next to Dooley's, there would be a pretty decent correlation between the two. I mean, it isn't *that* hard to evaluate talent. By extension, if you put Dooley's list side by side with Nick Saban's list, there would also be a pretty good correlation between the two. What I'm getting at here is that Derek can (and he probably actually does) know who the best players in the country are. But that doesn't mean that he's getting them. If he were getting them, I believe our recruiting classes would (a) look a lot more like Bama's than they presently do, and (b) this would also be reflected in the recruiting rankings.

Does this make sense? I fully concede that recruiting services have imperfect information, but the evidence suggests that it is good enough for us fans to use as a barometer to know whether we are keeping up with the Sabans and such. To state this slightly differently, I don't have any reason to believe that the lesser ranked players we are getting are "diamonds in the rough". I have no reason to believe that Dooley and Co. know something that the rest of the coaches in the SEC don't know. And so stargazing, while imperfect, is much more constructive than star ignoring.

Would you also agree that is easier for Saban to recruit 4/5 * talent in 2011 than Dooley?

Look back at Saban's run at Michigan State and you will see that he did not work miracles during his time in East Lansing.

I'm not yet sold Dooley is THE guy that will definitely bring the Vols back to the top of the east, but I'm willing to give him through the 2012 season to make a believer out of me.
 
we would not be having this conversation, everyone would be pounding their chest. Ever ask yourself why? Let's look at SC as a prime example of how great recruiting can turn a program around. Jeffery, Lattimore, and now Clooney will make them contenders not pretenders. You think those three guys will not be and are difference makers??? Better think again.
Great... Great... GREAT example. USCe has been ranked above UT once in the last 5 years by Rivals. Lattimore's class was 8th in the SEC. Jefferies' class was 6th in the SEC. Remember now... you and others have insisted that you cannot win in the SEC by recruiting in the middle or lower half then coaching up/retaining players.

You don't think UT's OL guys as individuals and as a group will not be "difference makers"? Hunter/Rogers? Bray? The RB's?

Question for you... who backs Lattimore up this year? What happens if he gets hurt? You do know that Spurrier is starting a 2* and three 3* on the OL, right?
 
Great... Great... GREAT example. USCe has been ranked above UT once in the last 5 years by Rivals. Lattimore's class was 8th in the SEC. Jefferies' class was 6th in the SEC. Remember now... you and others have insisted that you cannot win in the SEC by recruiting in the middle or lower half then coaching up/retaining players.

You don't think UT's OL guys as individuals and as a group will not be "difference makers"? Hunter/Rogers? Bray? The RB's?

Question for you... who backs Lattimore up this year? What happens if he gets hurt? You do know that Spurrier is starting a 2* and three 3* on the OL, right?
your argument is about a total class. My point is if you can't or won't recruit 4 or 5 star players that are consensus top recruits you can not win. I believe everyone including coaches and services said Clowney was the number 1 recruit in the country a year ago. lattimore was a consensus top three back in the country, and Jeffery was a 5 star by most services. It is hard to argue that without these guys South Carolina would be just South Carolina and with these guys they won the East last year and are projected to win it again. So saying stars don't matter is ridiculous and saying we all wouldn't be estatic if our current class was ranked number one in the country using the star system
is also ludicrous.
 
your argument is about a total class. My point is if you can't or won't recruit 4 or 5 star players that are consensus top recruits you can not win. I believe everyone including coaches and services said Clowney was the number 1 recruit in the country a year ago. lattimore was a consensus top three back in the country, and Jeffery was a 5 star by most services. It is hard to argue that without these guys South Carolina would be just South Carolina and with these guys they won the East last year and are projected to win it again. So saying stars don't matter is ridiculous and saying we all wouldn't be estatic if our current class was ranked number one in the country using the star system
is also ludicrous.

Yet, if you take the two away that have actually played, South Carolina is average at best. Sure, it's great to have those guys first string, but who's behind them?? No one that is as dominant. Sometimes it's about having consistency on your depth chart, versus having just one great player.
 
What happens if Lattimore goes down?

They get beaten by Kentucky again.
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your argument is about a total class. My point is if you can't or won't recruit 4 or 5 star players that are consensus top recruits you can not win.
Hunter, Jackson, Couch, Rogers, Lane, James, Richardson, J Smith,.... UT has a BOAT LOAD of those guys. Most are still very young. If that is your point then I really have no idea what you are complaining about.
I believe everyone including coaches and services said Clowney was the number 1 recruit in the country a year ago. lattimore was a consensus top three back in the country, and Jeffery was a 5 star by most services. It is hard to argue that without these guys South Carolina would be just South Carolina and with these guys they won the East last year and are projected to win it again.
SC backed into it last year because for the first time since divisional play began UGA, UF, nor UT were good enough to win the East. The 2007 team even with Fulmer and Co would have won the East last fall. FWIW, Clowney didn't play for USCe last fall.

You and others have said that you cannot compete in the SEC with classes that Rivals' et al rank below Bama, UF, UGA, Aub, and LSU. You contradicted that with this whole line of reasoning then dug the hole even deeper when you said you were talking about individual players.

So saying stars don't matter is ridiculous and saying we all wouldn't be estatic if our current class was ranked number one in the country using the star system
is also ludicrous.

Mostly that would mean that Dooley had demonstrated that he can win and that some of his magnetized 2/3* players had proven to be better than expected... so yes, I would be estatic.... you'd probably find something else to complain about. Until the svcs respect Dooley as a recruiter, his commits of equal talent to those of Saban et al will not get the nod.
 
I love how those articles talk about Ryan Perriloux. I was actually at Tennessee Tech watching a football game, and they were playing his team, and I just thought to myself "My, how the mighty have fallen."
 
Poster 1: I"m a little worried that we haven't been landing more four star guys.

Poster 2 (response A): Trust the evaluations of our coaches.

Poster 2 (response B): Stars don't matter. [Insert good college player] was a 3-star. How'd that work out?

I would like to emphasize for the record that while Poster 1 may be annoying, Poster 2 is both annoying and RETARDED. Recruiting rankings do matter, and discussions about them are perfectly appropriate and constructive. So for those who wish to make mention of recruiting stars (or even offer list stature) a taboo subject: please stop your silly little crusade. It is going to be discussed, and it is probative. You just sound dumb. And you never wanna go full retard.


Dear Poster 2: My Response to your Response A
There is no doubt in my mind that Derek Dooley has better information on recruits than does Brent Hubbs. Zero doubt. With this information, Dooley and his staff are able to put together various lists and sub-lists that are more informed than the lists you see at Rivals. I agree with every bit of that.

But I'm also certain that if you were to take the Rivals list and put it up side by side next to Dooley's, there would be a pretty decent correlation between the two. I mean, it isn't *that* hard to evaluate talent. By extension, if you put Dooley's list side by side with Nick Saban's list, there would also be a pretty good correlation between the two. What I'm getting at here is that Derek can (and he probably actually does) know who the best players in the country are. But that doesn't mean that he's getting them. If he were getting them, I believe our recruiting classes would (a) look a lot more like Bama's than they presently do, and (b) this would also be reflected in the recruiting rankings.

Does this make sense? I fully concede that recruiting services have imperfect information, but the evidence suggests that it is good enough for us fans to use as a barometer to know whether we are keeping up with the Sabans and such. To state this slightly differently, I don't have any reason to believe that the lesser ranked players we are getting are "diamonds in the rough". I have no reason to believe that Dooley and Co. know something that the rest of the coaches in the SEC don't know. And so stargazing, while imperfect, is much more constructive than star ignoring.


Dear Poster 2: My Response to your Response B

Facts. Data. Statistics. Math. Arguments. Evidence. Hypotheses. Sub-conclusions. Ultimate conclusions. Syllogisms. Objectivity. Rational thought. Clear prose. Logic. Cause. Effect. Truth. Lies. Your mother. Moist. My penis. Erect. Unity. Oooh. Togetherness. Aaah.

Please read these before responding. Seriously. It'll be good for you. You never wanna go FULL retard. Consider this an ounce of prevention.

2010 Signing Day - Football Outsiders: Recruiting matters even more than you might think - ESPN

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Varsity Numbers: Recruiting Spectacular

College Football - Bill Connelly: A 2010 recruiting snapshot sees the Pac-10 in decline, the Big East better than expected and the Mountain West overachieving - ESPN

Hug your friendly neighborhood recruiting rankings - Dr. Saturday - NCAAF Blog - Yahoo! Sports

Mister Relevant: Why you shouldn't dismiss recruiting rankings - Dr. Saturday - NCAAF Blog - Yahoo! Sports

Star Power: Recruiting gurus' All-American track record, by the numbers - Dr. Saturday - NCAAF Blog - Yahoo! Sports

Star Power: Recruiting gurus' track record at the top of the polls, by the numbers - Dr. Saturday - NCAAF Blog - Yahoo! Sports

Star Power: Judging the recruiting rankings, game by game - Dr. Saturday - NCAAF Blog - Yahoo! Sports
 
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With the current state of the program and where it looks like its headed, I'd say he and staff have done a pretty good job reeling in quality talent.

Going full retard as you say is to compare what Dooley is able to do compared to what Saban is able to do.

Kids want to play for a winner, at this point we are a basement dwelling team amongst high rollers.

I can assure you everyone here would love to see numerous 5* and 4* players across the board but with what has transpired over the last 5 years we are bringing in better than we should.

Not to say I'm happy about that in the least and I think I can speak for everyone on that. Again, winning cures all, in recruiting, in APR debates, off the field issues. You get the point.

If you win, they will come.
 
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With the current state of the program and where it looks like its headed, I'd say he and staff have done a pretty good job reeling in quality talent.

So we are getting *** guys when we deserve to be getting ** guys?
 
I'm more concerned with the coaching than I am the players we are putting on the field.

We've recruited well enough to compete, this year is the year we either see results or his ass become a hair model.
 
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Part of evaluating recruits involves evaluating the chances of winning the pursuit. It makes no sense to spend $$$$$ recruiting a ***** star player with no chance of signing. It makes a lot of sense spending $$$ to recruit the best *** star players that you DO have a chance of signing. It is like job hunting. Everyone would like to be the multi-million salaried CEO but that $200K job you actually have a chance at getting is the real target.
 
Part of evaluating recruits involves evaluating the chances of winning the pursuit. It makes no sense to spend $$$$$ recruiting a ***** star player with no chance of signing. It makes a lot of sense spending $$$ to recruit the best *** star players that you DO have a chance of signing. It is like job hunting. Everyone would like to be the multi-million salaried CEO but that $200K job you actually have a chance at getting is the real target.

We should still aim high.
 
Part of evaluating recruits involves evaluating the chances of winning the pursuit. It makes no sense to spend $$$$$ recruiting a ***** star player with no chance of signing. It makes a lot of sense spending $$$ to recruit the best *** star players that you DO have a chance of signing. It is like job hunting. Everyone would like to be the multi-million salaried CEO but that $200K job you actually have a chance at getting is the real target.

Winners funk the prom queen.
 
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How did Bear Bryant ever win a NC without Rivals and Scout????? Cause it is obvious that they know more about football than any ole coach does!! Geez!!!!
 
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It’s not the recruiting services that determine the quality of the players; it’s the offers that they get that generally determine the amount of stars to attach to their name. Offers are given by coaching staffs so it is reasonable to assume "Trust the evaluations of our coaches." as being a fair statement.

KidBourbon -
Since you are all about putting up articles to support your statement, try to find how many times a kid was a 2/3 star and was moved to a 3/4 after a certain school offered. I know the running joke for years with my UK friends were if they offered a kid a scholly then he would get 2 stars by Rivals, but if UT offered the same kid he would get 4 stars.
 
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