4.41
- Thread starter Volador
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Have a care in conflating types of speed. If you look at just 40 times Derrick Henry and his 4.52 wouldn't lend itself to being impressed with how "fast" he was but how many times have you ever seen him run down, college or pro? I alluded to this in another thread even before we knew his time I wasn't sure Jalin was the type of guy that would be running 4.2 but I know for a fact he's the kind of guy that once his stride opens up is running away from people on the field and managing a sub-10.5 100m in HS.
If Jalin can run a 4.40 there's little reason to believe he's not capable of a 4.3-something. What I was trying to get across is people with elite top end speed are not necessarily going to make your eyes water at shorter distances and vise versa. Let me see if I can better explain that by way of examples. These are the fastest speeds in mph reached by NFL ball carriers by year per Next Gen Stats and their combine 40 time.
2022 22.11/4.31 Parris Campbell
2021 22.13/4.39 Jonathan Taylor
2020 23.09/4.38 Raheem Mostert
2019 22.3/4.38 Matt Breida
2018 22.09/4.38 Matt Breida
2017 22.05/4.51 Leonard Fournette
2016 23.24/4.29 Tyreek Hill
So note that since Next Gen started tracking such things in 2016 exactly one of the ball carriers that hit the highest speed for the whole season was one of those sub-4.3 guys. (Hill) In fact of the group only 2 had a combine 40 under 4.38 and Fournette hit the 22mph club with a 4.51 40. (in case you were curious as he'd already been mentioned Henry has hit as high as 21.8)
It's worth noting a couple things. These speeds were reached in games in full gear. The other is obviously it's pretty dependent on getting loose for a long enough run/reception to reach top gear so it's impossible to be comprehensive in association but the point I'm making is that true "speed" in the open field at full stride is not necessarily something one can extrapolate from the 40 times with certainty. I would posit Hyatt to be more representative of the type of player where his type of speed is more obvious when at full sail than when going through the gears for shorter distances.
LittleVol
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Jaws
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For him it is actually. No one is saying hes a bad WR but speed is his only above avearage trait. And, he has some pretty glaring weaknesses. Strength, size, route running and by far the biggest red flag for a WR of his type..no return experience. In 3 years he has never fielded a kick. I dont think ive ever seen him on the feild for special teams. For a guy his size and speed that's quite an indictment on his open feild ability.
Thats actually tje biggest thing that stick out in my head when i see him scouted. It does get mentioned on depth but usually his NFL comps are people like Desean Jackson, Will Fuller and Jameson Williams. Except all 3 of them are known commodities as kick/punt returners. When youre going for a boom or bust/project pick pick at a skill position how good are they on special teams is often the justification. At least if they dont work out at WR or DB or whatever they can return kicks and blow guys up on special teams. He aint ginna return jicks and he definitely aint a gunner. The mire I think about it the more it seems like if he does no drastically improve his 40 and show out on proday he could drop to bottom of the second. The one good thing is WRs ran slow as a group this year.
One last thing and I promise my wall of text ends. I forget who but during tje combine o heard someone repeat something Jimmy Johnson said about the 40. Hed rather see them run the 40 in full pads because different players have different game speed. Bigger guys tend to maintain their speed in pads while the smaller ones get weighed down. Hence why Tillmans time is not seen as a negative by scouts..its actually faster than most expected.
He actually runs pretty good routes and seeing as our Deep Choice system leaves it up to the WR to pick a route based on coverage, he did pretty good at that too. He doesn't have to be a returner. The biggest test will be if he can get off of press coverage because they don't really stack WRs in the NFL.
I've heard this as well but always took it with a caveat. If comparing similar times to disparate physiques it makes sense...two guys run a 4.5ish with one being 5'11"/180 and another being 6'2"/210 and the idea would seem to have merit. Where it doesn't appear to hold up is the idea that smaller burners in shorts aren't burners in pads. Arguably the fastest legit football player ever (with Bob Hayes being the other candidate) is Darell Green, all 5'9" of him. Cliff Branch was under 6' and built like a twig. Desean Jackson isn't a big guy either. Granted he's pretty jacked but Tyreek Hill is still only 5'10". It's a long list. Heck, I can't imagine Trindon Holliday was ever caught from behind on a football field in his life and that guy is genuinely tiny. I think the problem with smaller even if they are fast is it encroaches on other areas. Despite how fast you are it's more difficult to get off jams, make contested catches harder, etc.
Outside of Trindon neither of those guys was 176.. Hyatts weight at the combine. Also Trindon is a terrible example.. he only had 2 career catches in his 4 year career the NFL for 17 yards.. he was a kick/punt returner only. Hyatt is not. Hyatt is a rail at 6 feet flat... none of the other guys you named on this list were.. most of them were 190+ even Trindon at 5'5 155 was more thickly built and faster than Hyatt. Bruh was 176 at the combine.. let that sink in.
Now one thing in his favor is that there were a lot of mini-mes in the combine this year Addison, Downs, Dell and Mims and he ran faster than all of them but to a man, most of them are actually shorter and heavier than him, and are either excellent route runners or return guys. His closest comp in the top WRs would be Addison and Downs both beat him soundly on overall resume and especially route running. Hyatt might have a huge route tree but it's not on tape so it does not exist for all intents and purposes. he ran basically 3 routes at UT... go, posts and digs.
In the case of Hyatt he only had 3 choices of routes and on any given play only 2. he rarely had to deal with press, which won't be the case in the NFL and at that level even the smallest corners will easily jam him. Speed doesn't matter if you can't get a release. Do not get me wrong I am not anti-Hyatt I'm just trying to be realistic/play devils advocate here. What he did this season was AMAZING and scheme or no scheme that was his effort and talent on the field producing. There is a reason he got 15 TD's.. Funny fact on a lot of passing plays in Huyepels offense there are only 1-2 possible targets everyone else is a decoy.. throw to them, run, or throw it away. This is one reason Hooker seemingly held the ball so much because he didn't have a big progression to go through he was waiting for WR's to get open.
I think we somehow ended up at cross purpose. My comparisons were 100% addressing the size/speed in pads part of the equation. All of those guys were/are smaller in stature and every bit the burner in pads on the field and off. (as an aside Holliday was 166lb at the combine)
Now outside of the speed observation in the context discussed I think you make some solid observations in your 2nd paragraph.
The funny thing is I think honestly the best comp as far as skillset to Hyatt in the NFl right now is DK Metcalf....if you skip the fact he's 3 inches taller 50 pounds heavier and almost a second faster. They have up till now show similar skillsets as far as route running. He still fell to the 2nd round. Hyatt has the same knocks as DK plus the whole size thing on top of it. IN the right offense Hyatt can be a monster.. but does that team have a pick high enough and value him in the first round? I am not arguing that Hyatt does not have NFL-caliber talent. My argument is the first round and on top of that I think Tillman is a MUCH better NFL prospect long-term. NFL players are faster across the board then even SEC players. DId you see the 40's these linebackers and defensive ends ran? 9 defensive players ran faster than him.. 1 LB and 1 DE ran faster than him.. heck Byron Young ran a 4.43 at 250 pounds.. Thats an 80 pound delta..
THE fastest guy is only 0.04 seconds faster than Jalin in that drill. I suspect much like Dobbs, when the pads are on. the lights are blazing, the crowd is roaring, and people on the field want to tear your head off, he's as fast or faster than he needs to be. Dobbs rarely was run down and caught from behind by the best and fastest in the SEC. Jalin often blew by defenders when running his routes many times nobody even in the same tv picture or within 5 or 10 yards of him as he got his TDs.
LittleVol
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that's called projection... show me tape of hyatt running more than 3 routes.. he runs go routes comebacks and posts. No double moves nothing across the middle. Can he run those routes? maybe but he hasn't done it on tape. No one has ever when talking about Hyatt been like yup great route runner he is straight-line speed. No wiggle or change of direction. At least none on the tape. he runs fast hard and under he ball and that's it. I have watched every snap of the kids career at UT. most of them multiple times. If you disagree please give proof? My proof is the lack of proof anyone can give when tape on him is easy to find. My proof is that pretty much every scouting report on him agrees.Stopped reading after you said he's an average route runner.
You don't know wtf you're talking about...
I decided to randomly pick some scouting reports on him I literally googled Jalin Hyatt's scouting report and grabbed the first 4 that had a scouting report. I included the negatives only for brevity and not one of them mentioned route running as a strength.
NFL.com
Weaknesses
Scheme created a variety of free releases for him.
Route tree somewhat limited.
Lean frame, lacking in play strength.
Knocked off course when press punch finds him.
Lacks deception in his short and intermediate routes.
Unsuccessful holding ground when catch is contested.
Draft Network
Top Reasons For Concern:
Transition from extreme spread, tempo offense
One year of meaningful production
Slender build
Developing route tree and ability to win from more alignments
NFL Draftbuzz
SCOUTING REPORT: WEAKNESSES
His tape is limited and has had only one season (2022) putting up elite numbers. Prior to then, his performances were pretty none descript.
He’ll have to develop a better feel for sitting down against zone coverage.
His route tree has been pretty limited - will take some serious time to adjust to pro offense
Has played most of his snaps from the slot and therefore rarely has been challenged in press coverage
May struggle to convert his skills to the pro game where he has just been told to win footraces on deep patterns
Profootball Network
Hyatt’s Areas for Improvement
As you’d expect with a true junior, even one of Hyatt’s degree, there are areas for improvement. Yet, many derive from Heupul’s offensive scheme. Tennessee’s offense is predicated on the quick game, RPOs, and one-field reads. As a result, there are many snaps when Hyatt is simply a decoy or body on the field.
Include his 90% career slot rate, and Hyatt’s tape is limited. He rarely faced press, didn’t run many route concepts, and was schemed open often. In fact, his route tree essentially was the following: go’s, speed outs, comebacks, rounded digs/crossers, and WR screens.
The Tennessee WR wasn’t asked to run many of the hard-breaking routes he will see in the NFL. Although he has flashed the ability to sink his hips at the top of his route, he occasionally raises his pad level into the break.
Furthermore, his legs can get outside his frame, hindering his ability to burst out of breaks.
Typically, you want to get out of the stem in three steps: drop, pivot, and hook. Hyatt has the drop step down, sinking his hips and bringing his chin to his knee. But he can improve on pivoting on the second step (slight turn of the foot) and hooking the last one (drive into the break).
Before the route begins, Hyatt needs to expand his release repertoire. He hasn’t dealt with many physical corners, but that will change in the league. In the few reps where the opponent did get hands on him, the Tennessee WR struggled to separate.
Currently, he most commonly deploys a foot-fire release, quickly shooting his feet before surging forward. Adding to his bag will only boost his odds of leaving the line of scrimmage clean.
A high-level aspect of being a WR Hyatt can achieve is deception. He employs head fakes and does a decent job feigning intent by throwing his upper half.
Yet, against zone, he can better hold CBs with patient footwork. And his feel in zone is restricted by his experience, as he doesn’t always sit in holes or flatten routes.
Weight-wise, Hyatt may be able to add some muscle, but he has a naturally slender build. Thus, he won’t break many arm tackles or be much of a contested-catch connoisseur.
While a bit of a nitpick, Hyatt often lines up with his hands crossed on his knees. It’s not the biggest concern, but it increases time at the release as he must uncross them before moving his lower half.
Plus, if a CB presses, they can jam his chest before he can get his arms up. Lastly, I’d like the Tennessee WR to incorporate a more forward lean in his stance for the utmost explosion.
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