4-3 to 3-4 Defense next year?

[orange+white=heaven]

So, does the current state of defensive personnel suggest that Coach Chavis might be wise to shift Tennessee's base defense to a 3-4 next season?
A bit of an article from this weekend that posed this question...
Full Story

Fulmer entered and exited the season grumbling about his defensive front.
"If you're not going to be great physically," Fulmer said, "if you don't have John Henderson and Albert Haynesworth and some of those guys, you've got to be great fundamentally and technique-wise and be great effort.
"We don't have that right now where it needs to be."
Few areas on Tennessee's team will receive offseason scrutiny like the defensive line. The loss of seniors Justin Harrell and Turk McBride mean depth problems still for the defensive front. Meanwhile, a group of linebackers returns so deep that not all the standouts can get playing time.
So is it time for UT's defense to buck another trend and take that 4-3 defense into a 3-4?
Perhaps, Chavis said, but not yet.

A further question... would the increasingly prevalent use of the spread be better defended out of a 3-4?
Is our personnel really better suited to a 3-4?

Thoughts?...

 

[WA_Vol]

So, does the current state of defensive personnel suggest that Coach Chavis might be wise to shift Tennessee's base defense to a 3-4 next season?
A bit of an article from this weekend that posed this question...
Full Story


A further question... would the increasingly prevalent use of the spread be better defended out of a 3-4?
Is our personnel really better suited to a 3-4?

Thoughts?...

You have to have a monster stud nose tackle to make a 3-4 work. UT doesn't have that. The returning tackles Mapu and Bolden neither could play nose tackle effectively IMO.

 

[bigdaddy]

It is not our personnel that I am worried about. It is our coaches lack of ability to adapt to change that scares me. I don't know if Chavis knows how to run a 3-4. Plus, they are too stubborn to admit what they are doing is not working-blame the talent as seen above in CPF words.

 

[VolinArizona]

You have to have a monster stud nose tackle to make a 3-4 work. UT doesn't have that. The returning tackles Mapu and Bolden neither could play nose tackle effectively IMO.

JT Mapu + weight could = Haloti Ngata

Mapu, as many have pointed out, wasn't in great playing shape last season. With a strong offseason strength and conditioning program, Mapu could be a monster. He was very good as a sophomore before he left, remember.

Also, Bolden is a sophomore, and he's 6'6". Why do people on this board keep writing players off when they haven't developed into "OMGZORS BEST EVER" before their junior years? Jeez louise, give some players time to mature, not everyone hits their stride early. Reference: Meachem, Robert.

 

[utvol0427]

Wouldn't mind seeing a move to 3-4. You can do a lot more things, blitz wise, out of a 3-4 defense. Also, 3-4 defense seems to give teams trouble, because they don't face that as much as the 4-3. My only concern, which someone has already mentioned, is our coaching staff and players adapting to the change.

 

[VolBeef88]

It is not our personnel that I am worried about. It is our coaches lack of ability to adapt to change that scares me. I don't know if Chavis knows how to run a 3-4. Plus, they are too stubborn to admit what they are doing is not working-blame the talent as seen above in CPF words.

Show me where CPF was wrong in his statement.

 

[nashvillevolunteer]

You have to have some sort of mega-athlete for one of the linebacker spots. The only systems where it has worked are with larger linebackers. We tend to go for the smaller speed guys for that position. Also, I tend to agree with someone earlier that you have to have some sort of mammoth to play the nose tackle position. We definitely do not have that.

 

[WA_Vol]

Also, Bolden is a sophomore, and he's 6'6". Why do people on this board keep writing players off when they haven't developed into "OMGZORS BEST EVER" before their junior years? Jeez louise, give some players time to mature, not everyone hits their stride early. Reference: Meachem, Robert.

Who is writing Bolden or Mapu off? Just because I think Mapu and Bolden are better suited to play defensive tackle then nose guard that means I'm writing them off? Look at the players UT has had at tackle over the years and UT never used a 3-4.

 

[bigdaddy]

Fulmer entered and exited grumbling about his defenseive front not being where it needs to be not having and Albert Haynesworth et al....what about saying WE the coaching staff have not gotten our players to be where they need to be to compete with the top tear sec schools. He does address the fact that they are not there but nothing to the fact that we as coaches didnt get it done-just we dont have the players we need. Thus blaming the talent.

 

[OrangePappy]

Chavis was the one that converted in the first place because of personnel and no one else in the SEC was using it so why couldn't he convert back if he needs to. We haven't recruited for that type of defense so, IMO, it wouldn't be a good idea to change now.

 

[VolBeef88]

JT Mapu + weight could = Haloti Ngata

Mapu, as many have pointed out, wasn't in great playing shape last season. With a strong offseason strength and conditioning program, Mapu could be a monster. He was very good as a sophomore before he left, remember.

Also, Bolden is a sophomore, and he's 6'6". Why do people on this board keep writing players off when they haven't developed into "OMGZORS BEST EVER" before their junior years? Jeez louise, give some players time to mature, not everyone hits their stride early. Reference: Meachem, Robert.

Very good post AZ

 

[VolinArizona]

Who is writing Bolden or Mapu off? Just because I think Mapu and Bolden are better suited to play defensive tackle then nose guard that means I'm writing them off? Look at the players UT has had at tackle over the years and UT never used a 3-4.

You gave no reason as to why you think one of them couldn't be an effective nose tackle. I would be interested in discussing why or why not Bolden or Mapu could or couldn't be. It would be a great discussion that actually revolves around football knowledge, which I know you have. So, hit it!

 

[VolBeef88]

Fulmer entered and exited grumbling about his defenseive front not being where it needs to be not having and Albert Haynesworth et al....what about saying WE the coaching staff have not gotten our players to be where they need to be to compete with the top tear sec schools. He does address the fact that they are not there but nothing to the fact that we as coaches didnt get it done-just we dont have the players we need. Thus blaming the talent.

Actually he said IF YOU DON'T HAVE HENDERSON AND HAYNESWORTH you have to be fund sound.
I think you are looking to hard to criticize him on this one. R---e---a---c---h


Also did you miss this? "We don't have that right now where it needs to be."

 

[Liper]

Actually he said IF YOU DON'T HAVE HENDERSON AND HAYNESWORTH you have to be fund sound.
I think you are looking to hard to criticize him on this one. R---e---a---c---h

Hmmm...I see both sides.

By lamenting the asbsence of players like Haynesworth and Henderson (who were, BTW, on the same team that failed to win a championship), he's acting as if it's really hard to play proper defense without it.

My point would be that if you're relying on NFL All Pro type players to run your scheme, then you're making a de facto admission that you're not a very good coach. The fact is, very few teams EVER have that kind of talent on one line; and when they do, they are SERIOUSLY good.

Tons of teams across the land make due with FAR less than than two top 15 picks at DT standing side by side.

On the other side, it is also true that you have to be more sound without that type of talent. But I'm sure there's anyone on the planet that doesn't know that.

In his defense, we were probably average at DL for SEC standards, save McBride, who was a fabulous player.

 

[volbreaker]

You have to have some sort of mega-athlete for one of the linebacker spots. The only systems where it has worked are with larger linebackers. We tend to go for the smaller speed guys for that position. Also, I tend to agree with someone earlier that you have to have some sort of mammoth to play the nose tackle position. We definitely do not have that.

I know he has'nt strapped on a helmet yet, but C. Donald sounds like he could just be that mega-athlete you seek. Gosh though, I always hate to a guess about an incomer, but @ his size and that blinding speed (4.5 legit, 4.4 reported) he sounds like an animal. Supposedly VERY football and school smart. I can't wait to see this kid!!!

 

[WA_Vol]

You gave no reason as to why you think one of them couldn't be an effective nose tackle. I would be interested in discussing why or why not Bolden or Mapu could or couldn't be. It would be a great discussion that actually revolves around football knowledge, which I know you have. So, hit it!

Neither Mapu or Bolden played very well at DT this year. UT ranked in the bottom 50 in rush defense. Nose tackle is a much harder position to play then DT, your guaranteed to be double teamed at nose tackle. In a 4-3, at least one DT has an opportunity to make a play as one DT is going 1 on 1 with a blocker while the other is double-teamed.

In a 3-4, a nose tackle occupies a double-team every play. From a motivational point of view its a much tougher position to play because your not going to be involved in many tackles unless you can take on a double team and still make a play. Thats why I mean you need a monster at nose tackle to be effective.

 

[sjt18]

Mitchell got alot of love at MLB but he didn't help the situation at DT.

UT did run some 3 front this year. As someone said, you need inside LB's around 250 if you are going to be successful. It does allow them to play tackle to tackle rather than sideline to sideline though.

IMO, Chavis is probably too imaginative. I'd rather teams say about UT what UT said about PSU. Stop the film any time and no one is off assignment. UT depends too much on athleticism rather than discipline on D.

I agree about Mapu and Bolden. They could easily be the surprise of next year like Ainge was this year. Both need to gain weight and strength.

 

[sjt18]

BTW, I'd lay more of the DT performance at the feet of the starters rather than the subs.

It is a shame for McBride. He would have been a all SEC caliber DE... but 270 isn't big enough to play DT against a high level opponent.

 

[OWB]

I was just thinking about this the other day. With the talent that we have at LB, it will be hard to just have 3 on the field.

 

[bigdaddy]

Actually he said IF YOU DON'T HAVE HENDERSON AND HAYNESWORTH you have to be fund sound.
I think you are looking to hard to criticize him on this one. R---e---a---c---h


Also did you miss this? "We don't have that right now where it needs to be."

I addressed every statement above in my response. Read it again. I said he blames the fact he doesn't have Haynesworth et al and even gave him credit for admitting they are not where they need to be right now, but nothing to the effect that the coaches failed to get the job done. I am sure they are working like heck to get it done this offseason.

 

[GAVol]

If you are already thin at d-line, why would you go to a scheme that places even more of a premium on the run stopping ability of the d-line?

 

[tidwell]

Well heck, just split the difference and go to the 4-4 defense.

 

[GAVol]

Well heck, just split the difference and go to the 4-4 defense.

That's effectively what you are playing anyway when your Strong Safety can't cover anybody.

 

[VolinArizona]

Neither Mapu or Bolden played very well at DT this year. UT ranked in the bottom 50 in rush defense. Nose tackle is a much harder position to play then DT, your guaranteed to be double teamed at nose tackle. In a 4-3, at least one DT has an opportunity to make a play as one DT is going 1 on 1 with a blocker while the other is double-teamed.

In a 3-4, a nose tackle occupies a double-team every play. From a motivational point of view its a much tougher position to play because your not going to be involved in many tackles unless you can take on a double team and still make a play. Thats why I mean you need a monster at nose tackle to be effective.

Mapu was on pace to be a stud at tackle before his mission. Obviously, it still remains to be seen if he'll be back to that form, but I wouldn't count him out. Mahelona would have been a solid 1-gap NT.

Bolden, I agree, seems to be better suited for 4-3, however, he has the frame to add on more weight and he *could* be a formidable NT if the coaches actually went 100% with it.

 

[orange+white=heaven]

Fulmer entered and exited grumbling about his defenseive front not being where it needs to be not having and Albert Haynesworth et al....what about saying WE the coaching staff have not gotten our players to be where they need to be to compete with the top tear sec schools. He does address the fact that they are not there but nothing to the fact that we as coaches didnt get it done-just we dont have the players we need. Thus blaming the talent.

I'm always cautious, BigD, about criticizing a quote for what it did not say. The thing is, you never really know the context of the question or even if the quote is directly in response to the story the reporter is writing at that moment....

If you are already thin at d-line, why would you go to a scheme that places even more of a premium on the run stopping ability of the d-line?

I guess the thinking would be that if you are depleted in D-Line you immediately add volume to your 2deep at the front. Further, the linebacker talent at which there is depth could be on the field using their athletic ability to A-Fill the run gaps and... B-in the case of the spread offense, make coverage/blitz tougher to detect at the ends...

Well heck, just split the difference and go to the 4-4 defense.

hmmmm...:question: