3 Safety Look

#1
jkleno

jkleno

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#1
Any thoughts on our Vols playing with 3 safeties the rest of the way instead of a 4-3 package? No disrespect to Jumper (he gives his all), but he can't get through blocks and is on the ground seemingly every play. Why not have Nigel Warrior play a hybrid LB/S role to help out the defense.
 
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#2
#2
jkleno said:
Any thoughts on our Vols playing with 3 safeties the rest of the way instead of a 4-3 package? No disrespect to Jumper (he gives his all), but he can't get through blocks and is on the ground seemingly every play. Why not have Nigel Warrior play a hybrid LB/S role to help out the defense.
Click to expand...

We may have to go with a 0 safety look to stop the run or maybe we can go with a 5 safety look to stop the pass?
 
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#3
#3
we've been doing this. you still need a mike that can communicate and get everyone lined up, make calls etc..., hence why Jumper is in there. not saying that's the greatest option...but we already play a lot of nickel....
 
#4
#4
jakez4ut said:
we've been doing this. you still need a mike that can communicate and get everyone lined up, make calls etc..., hence why Jumper is in there. not saying that's the greatest option...but we already play a lot of nickel....
Click to expand...

Could we not transition Warrior into a similar role as MIKE or move Bituli there. I understand the importance of lining people up correctly, but when one player is so ineffective sometimes it is time to move on.
 
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#5
#5
jkleno said:
Any thoughts on our Vols playing with 3 safeties the rest of the way instead of a 4-3 package? No disrespect to Jumper (he gives his all), but he can't get through blocks and is on the ground seemingly every play. Why not have Nigel Warrior play a hybrid LB/S role to help out the defense.
Click to expand...

You usually don't switch out the mlb when you pull linebacker
 
#6
#6
I think Jumper greases himself down w/ Vaseline before every game as even when he does get to a ball carrier or receiver, he just slides down off of them.........
 
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#8
#8
jkleno said:
Could we not transition Warrior into a similar role as MIKE or move Bituli there. I understand the importance of lining people up correctly, but when one player is so ineffective sometimes it is time to move on.
Click to expand...
so your solution is to move either a guy that's even smaller and will have more problems getting off blocks? Or a guy that might not be able to get guys lined up correctly?

I think a lot of guys need to learn something about scheme and how depending on scheme different players have different roles. DT is the easy example to make here. In some schemes/packages your NT/DT role is to eat blocks and let linebackers flow to the ball untouched (Ravens). In a scheme like this your inner linebackers feast. Other schemes/packages/plays might involve them engaging more because your DT's are meant to penetrate more so linebackers will get more traffic.

Basically unless its 2 players playing the same position and plays you cant really compare them. For example Bituli and Jumper so far this year. Mostly we have been playing 4-3 under with the SAM (Bituli) lining up over the tight end on the LOS. https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/201...-playbook-4-3-over-under-and-over-stem-fronts

Not exactly playing these fronts but it gives a basic understanding on how your defensive front changes keys and responsibilities. As has been mentioned every year ad-nauseum our first 2 games are normally very vanilla with minimal blitzing because you save that for SEC play. Especially our second game of each year which is always a cupcake.
 
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#10
#10
A linebacker is typically bigger than a safety so he has the size to shed blockers. However, since Jumper has trouble shedding the grass in front of him, put Todd Kelly in there. At least Kelly has the speed to get to the outside.

Seems we need more help in getting to the football than lining up and calling plays.

GuardiansofGalaxy.gif
 
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#11
#11
pimo1 said:
so your solution is to move either a guy that's even smaller and will have more problems getting off blocks? Or a guy that might not be able to get guys lined up correctly?

I think a lot of guys need to learn something about scheme and how depending on scheme different players have different roles. DT is the easy example to make here. In some schemes/packages your NT/DT role is to eat blocks and let linebackers flow to the ball untouched (Ravens). In a scheme like this your inner linebackers feast. Other schemes/packages/plays might involve them engaging more because your DT's are meant to penetrate more so linebackers will get more traffic.

Basically unless its 2 players playing the same position and plays you cant really compare them. For example Bituli and Jumper so far this year. Mostly we have been playing 4-3 under with the SAM (Bituli) lining up over the tight end on the LOS. https://www.bloggingtheboys.com/201...-playbook-4-3-over-under-and-over-stem-fronts

Not exactly playing these fronts but it gives a basic understanding on how your defensive front changes keys and responsibilities. As has been mentioned every year ad-nauseum our first 2 games are normally very vanilla with minimal blitzing because you save that for SEC play. Especially our second game of each year which is always a cupcake.
Click to expand...

I would take my chances with TK jr or Warrior over Jumper any day. Once again, I mean no disrespect for someone who gives his all, but we need a change and I don't buy the "vanilla" defense for a second. You don't let your best opportunity to beat GA Tech go by the side in order to save up for SEC play.
 
#12
#12
jkleno said:
I would take my chances with TK jr or Warrior over Jumper any day. Once again, I mean no disrespect for someone who gives his all, but we need a change and I don't buy the "vanilla" defense for a second. You don't let your best opportunity to beat GA Tech go by the side in order to save up for SEC play.
Click to expand...

you don't move a safety mid stream to Mike LB.

you can make that change, in an off season....to get ready physically. but right now....nope. you got Austin Smith (if healthy), Sapp (if healthy), McDowell, Bituli, Ignot and Jumper.

bituli should be the next guy up at Mike, and then you fill out the outside backers form the other 4, w/Jumper backing up BItuli. ideally anyway. and it may work toward being that.

you leave the safeties alone at this point, and play your nickel packages as already designed.
 
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#14
#14
jkleno said:
Could we not transition Warrior into a similar role as MIKE or move Bituli there. I understand the importance of lining people up correctly, but when one player is so ineffective sometimes it is time to move on.
Click to expand...

Of course we could. The biggest lie being perpetuated in football today is that only colton jumper is capable of lining up a defense correctly. I understood last year when it was JRM going down early and Shoop was new with a new scheme, only partially installed, well jumper may be the best option.

But even then i was skeptical of only one man (who is also the least athletic man on the roster, dont argue this trevor daniel can 360 degree dunk a basketball, and is way more athletic than jumper) being capable of backing up JRM duties, and thought Shoop deserved criticism for having no one ready except the equivalent of glorified manager, coaches son, clipboard holder type, like shoops actual son.

But now, a full year later, to have zero linebackers capable of lining up a defense??? It cant be that complicated of a defense, it confounds or out smarts exactly none of our opponents, it seems very vanilla, and commonplace...so why in year two does Shoop have zero football players capable of lining up a defense correctly???

Now dont say jumper is one, he obviously struggles greatly in the only thing hes supposed to be good at. I know Volnation says Jumper is playing because hes great at quarterbacking the defense....well...my question to that is, have you seen our defense??? Do they seem well led? Well aligned? Do they make intelligent reads, and adjustments to motions, changes, do they adjust to shut down jet motion, and react accordingly, or do we fall victim to jet sweeps and resulting counters over and over???Do professional announcers coaches and former players heavily criticize all this and especially how the defense lines up.

If he is a liability in all aspects except his alignment skills and knowledge, then hes a liability overall, since this defenses biggest problem is the very thing jumper is responsible for....think about it...well then why is he out there? according to Shoop its not because hes the only guy smart enough or capable of understanding Shoops amazingly technical, calculus driven tetrahedronic paricle wave frequency oscillating RMS defensive rocket science sorcery, written in latin and cipher.

No Shoop doesnt say that. Only fans cook up such fallacious and borderline racist notions, "jumper is the only one smart enough, hes intelligent, bituli isnt there yet, sapp doesnt have that capacity," {actual quotes ive read}....are you kidding me, are people really saying that black athletes need a white boy to tell them where to stand on the field??? Wtf? Wtf! Anyone spouting that nonsense should be called out on it. But that myth is allowed, for some reason to persist....

BUT again Shoop doesnt say all that. Shoop says he plays more snaps than anyone else on defense because...."hes physical, plays really fast, has been our most consistent performer, hes in great shape, makes everyone around him better, is a vocal leader, can make calls and adjustments like you expect a linebacker or safety to do." Hmm interesting, so a safety like tKjr could do that??? I was led to believe only a middle linebacker, and only jumper could handle those duties....weird. in fact Shoop wanted Jumper and Kirkland on the field at the same time, said it would be best lb combination and he "definitely views him as a 1, not a backup."

So lets kill the myths...Bob Shoop really thinks Colton Jumper is our best linebacker. Marinate.
 
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#15
#15
jkleno said:
Could we not transition Warrior into a similar role as MIKE or move Bituli there. I understand the importance of lining people up correctly, but when one player is so ineffective sometimes it is time to move on.
Click to expand...

I would move Jumper to an OLB spot with minimal coverage responsibilities. It will be harder for him to get beat outside due to alignment versus always getting beat. He can still call / set everyone. It is not ideal, but can be managed.
 
#17
#17
DaUndergroundMan said:
Of course we could. The biggest lie being perpetuated in football today is that only colton jumper is capable of lining up a defense correctly. I understood last year when it was JRM going down early and Shoop was new with a new scheme, only partially installed, well jumper may be the best option.

But even then i was skeptical of only one man (who is also the least athletic man on the roster, dont argue this trevor daniel can 360 degree dunk a basketball, and is way more athletic than jumper) being capable of backing up JRM duties, and thought Shoop deserved criticism for having no one ready except the equivalent of glorified manager, coaches son, clipboard holder type, like shoops actual son.

But now, a full year later, to have zero linebackers capable of lining up a defense??? It cant be that complicated of a defense, it confounds or out smarts exactly none of our opponents, it seems very vanilla, and commonplace...so why in year two does Shoop have zero football players capable of lining up a defense correctly???

Now dont say jumper is one, he obviously struggles greatly in the only thing hes supposed to be good at. I know Volnation says Jumper is playing because hes great at quarterbacking the defense....well...my question to that is, have you seen our defense??? Do they seem well led? Well aligned? Do they make intelligent reads, and adjustments to motions, changes, do they adjust to shut down jet motion, and react accordingly, or do we fall victim to jet sweeps and resulting counters over and over???Do professional announcers coaches and former players heavily criticize all this and especially how the defense lines up.

If he is a liability in all aspects except his alignment skills and knowledge, then hes a liability overall, since this defenses biggest problem is the very thing jumper is responsible for....think about it...well then why is he out there? according to Shoop its not because hes the only guy smart enough or capable of understanding Shoops amazingly technical, calculus driven tetrahedronic paricle wave frequency oscillating RMS defensive rocket science sorcery, written in latin and cipher.

No Shoop doesnt say that. Only fans cook up such fallacious and borderline racist notions, "jumper is the only one smart enough, hes intelligent, bituli isnt there yet, sapp doesnt have that capacity," {actual quotes ive read}....are you kidding me, are people really saying that black athletes need a white boy to tell them where to stand on the field??? Wtf? Wtf! Anyone spouting that nonsense should be called out on it. But that myth is allowed, for some reason to persist....

BUT again Shoop doesnt say all that. Shoop says he plays more snaps than anyone else on defense because...."hes physical, plays really fast, has been our most consistent performer, hes in great shape, makes everyone around him better, is a vocal leader, can make calls and adjustments like you expect a linebacker or safety to do." Hmm interesting, so a safety like tKjr could do that??? I was led to believe only a middle linebacker, and only jumper could handle those duties....weird. in fact Shoop wanted Jumper and Kirkland on the field at the same time, said it would be best lb combination and he "definitely views him as a 1, not a backup."

So lets kill the myths...Bob Shoop really thinks Colton Jumper is our best linebacker. Marinate.
Click to expand...
Wow. Great info- thanks op.
 
#18
#18
DaUndergroundMan said:
No Shoop doesnt say that. Only fans cook up such fallacious and borderline racist notions, "jumper is the only one smart enough, hes intelligent, bituli isnt there yet, sapp doesnt have that capacity," {actual quotes ive read}....are you kidding me, are people really saying that black athletes need a white boy to tell them where to stand on the field??? Wtf? Wtf! Anyone spouting that nonsense should be called out on it. But that myth is allowed, for some reason to persist....
.
Click to expand...

Obviously neither of us know the motivations of each individual poster, but I don't many are motivated by race. Jumper happens to be white. Personally, I have no idea the mental capacity of anyone on the team. Obviously Shoop has confidence Jumper has a better handle on getting the defense aligned like he wants than the next guy up. Considering his time in the program, I would think it has more to do with experience than intellect.

Just think you pulled a race card where it didn't belong. Not a big deal either way.
 
#19
#19
jakez4ut said:
you don't move a safety mid stream to Mike LB.

you can make that change, in an off season....to get ready physically. but right now....nope. you got Austin Smith (if healthy), Sapp (if healthy), McDowell, Bituli, Ignot and Jumper.

bituli should be the next guy up at Mike, and then you fill out the outside backers form the other 4, w/Jumper backing up BItuli. ideally anyway. and it may work toward being that.

you leave the safeties alone at this point, and play your nickel packages as already designed.
Click to expand...

Spot on Jake ! Bituli will be our MLB soon. TKjr is there to help him or we'll burn timeouts at critical times
 
#20
#20
DaUndergroundMan said:
Of course we could. The biggest lie being perpetuated in football today is that only colton jumper is capable of lining up a defense correctly. I understood last year when it was JRM going down early and Shoop was new with a new scheme, only partially installed, well jumper may be the best option.

But even then i was skeptical of only one man (who is also the least athletic man on the roster, dont argue this trevor daniel can 360 degree dunk a basketball, and is way more athletic than jumper) being capable of backing up JRM duties, and thought Shoop deserved criticism for having no one ready except the equivalent of glorified manager, coaches son, clipboard holder type, like shoops actual son.

But now, a full year later, to have zero linebackers capable of lining up a defense??? It cant be that complicated of a defense, it confounds or out smarts exactly none of our opponents, it seems very vanilla, and commonplace...so why in year two does Shoop have zero football players capable of lining up a defense correctly???

Now dont say jumper is one, he obviously struggles greatly in the only thing hes supposed to be good at. I know Volnation says Jumper is playing because hes great at quarterbacking the defense....well...my question to that is, have you seen our defense??? Do they seem well led? Well aligned? Do they make intelligent reads, and adjustments to motions, changes, do they adjust to shut down jet motion, and react accordingly, or do we fall victim to jet sweeps and resulting counters over and over???Do professional announcers coaches and former players heavily criticize all this and especially how the defense lines up.

If he is a liability in all aspects except his alignment skills and knowledge, then hes a liability overall, since this defenses biggest problem is the very thing jumper is responsible for....think about it...well then why is he out there? according to Shoop its not because hes the only guy smart enough or capable of understanding Shoops amazingly technical, calculus driven tetrahedronic paricle wave frequency oscillating RMS defensive rocket science sorcery, written in latin and cipher.

No Shoop doesnt say that. Only fans cook up such fallacious and borderline racist notions, "jumper is the only one smart enough, hes intelligent, bituli isnt there yet, sapp doesnt have that capacity," {actual quotes ive read}....are you kidding me, are people really saying that black athletes need a white boy to tell them where to stand on the field??? Wtf? Wtf! Anyone spouting that nonsense should be called out on it. But that myth is allowed, for some reason to persist....

BUT again Shoop doesnt say all that. Shoop says he plays more snaps than anyone else on defense because...."hes physical, plays really fast, has been our most consistent performer, hes in great shape, makes everyone around him better, is a vocal leader, can make calls and adjustments like you expect a linebacker or safety to do." Hmm interesting, so a safety like tKjr could do that??? I was led to believe only a middle linebacker, and only jumper could handle those duties....weird. in fact Shoop wanted Jumper and Kirkland on the field at the same time, said it would be best lb combination and he "definitely views him as a 1, not a backup."

So lets kill the myths...Bob Shoop really thinks Colton Jumper is our best linebacker. Marinate.
Click to expand...

Wow! Have you offered your wisdom to the coaching staff? You should, and it would fix everything!!

Now really, do you think the coaching staff, Shoop, is not using what combination of players he thinks gives the defense the best chance to win? The coaches jobs are on the line, and you don't think they are playing to win? Give it a rest.
 
#22
#22
jkleno said:
Could we not transition Warrior into a similar role as MIKE or move Bituli there. I understand the importance of lining people up correctly, but when one player is so ineffective sometimes it is time to move on.
Click to expand...

Warrior is probably 200 lbs soaking wet. Even in Nickel, I can't imagine him inside.
 
#23
#23
DaUndergroundMan said:
Of course we could. The biggest lie being perpetuated in football today is that only colton jumper is capable of lining up a defense correctly. I understood last year when it was JRM going down early and Shoop was new with a new scheme, only partially installed, well jumper may be the best option.

But even then i was skeptical of only one man (who is also the least athletic man on the roster, dont argue this trevor daniel can 360 degree dunk a basketball, and is way more athletic than jumper) being capable of backing up JRM duties, and thought Shoop deserved criticism for having no one ready except the equivalent of glorified manager, coaches son, clipboard holder type, like shoops actual son.

But now, a full year later, to have zero linebackers capable of lining up a defense??? It cant be that complicated of a defense, it confounds or out smarts exactly none of our opponents, it seems very vanilla, and commonplace...so why in year two does Shoop have zero football players capable of lining up a defense correctly???

Now dont say jumper is one, he obviously struggles greatly in the only thing hes supposed to be good at. I know Volnation says Jumper is playing because hes great at quarterbacking the defense....well...my question to that is, have you seen our defense??? Do they seem well led? Well aligned? Do they make intelligent reads, and adjustments to motions, changes, do they adjust to shut down jet motion, and react accordingly, or do we fall victim to jet sweeps and resulting counters over and over???Do professional announcers coaches and former players heavily criticize all this and especially how the defense lines up.

If he is a liability in all aspects except his alignment skills and knowledge, then hes a liability overall, since this defenses biggest problem is the very thing jumper is responsible for....think about it...well then why is he out there? according to Shoop its not because hes the only guy smart enough or capable of understanding Shoops amazingly technical, calculus driven tetrahedronic paricle wave frequency oscillating RMS defensive rocket science sorcery, written in latin and cipher.

No Shoop doesnt say that. Only fans cook up such fallacious and borderline racist notions, "jumper is the only one smart enough, hes intelligent, bituli isnt there yet, sapp doesnt have that capacity," {actual quotes ive read}....are you kidding me, are people really saying that black athletes need a white boy to tell them where to stand on the field??? Wtf? Wtf! Anyone spouting that nonsense should be called out on it. But that myth is allowed, for some reason to persist....

BUT again Shoop doesnt say all that. Shoop says he plays more snaps than anyone else on defense because...."hes physical, plays really fast, has been our most consistent performer, hes in great shape, makes everyone around him better, is a vocal leader, can make calls and adjustments like you expect a linebacker or safety to do." Hmm interesting, so a safety like tKjr could do that??? I was led to believe only a middle linebacker, and only jumper could handle those duties....weird. in fact Shoop wanted Jumper and Kirkland on the field at the same time, said it would be best lb combination and he "definitely views him as a 1, not a backup."

So lets kill the myths...Bob Shoop really thinks Colton Jumper is our best linebacker. Marinate.
Click to expand...
whoa whoa whoa.. you are making a lot of silly assumptions here.

1. Prove to me that with jumper in the last 2 years we have had issues with players being out of position (initially) on defense. Show me tape.. I know you can't. Players being out of position hasn't been our issue when he is in the game. Just hasn't period. Players not taking the right angles and missing tackles has been.

2. Coltons intelligence has nothing to do with his race. Football intelligence and regular every day intelligence are actually not the same thing anyway. it has to do with some guys just get it and some have a lot of experience doing so. Jumper has the advantage clearly in experience on all other options.

3. Stop hating on Jumper. Please people.. the dude does a well above average Job at his position. He has earned every snap he has taken and produced. People cherry picking stats/plays disgust me. If you want to find weakness I can go back and show you tape on every MLB drafted last year and show you 3-4 plays in a game where he looked lost.
 
#24
#24
DaUndergroundMan said:
Of course we could. The biggest lie being perpetuated in football today is that only colton jumper is capable of lining up a defense correctly. I understood last year when it was JRM going down early and Shoop was new with a new scheme, only partially installed, well jumper may be the best option.

But even then i was skeptical of only one man (who is also the least athletic man on the roster, dont argue this trevor daniel can 360 degree dunk a basketball, and is way more athletic than jumper) being capable of backing up JRM duties, and thought Shoop deserved criticism for having no one ready except the equivalent of glorified manager, coaches son, clipboard holder type, like shoops actual son.

But now, a full year later, to have zero linebackers capable of lining up a defense??? It cant be that complicated of a defense, it confounds or out smarts exactly none of our opponents, it seems very vanilla, and commonplace...so why in year two does Shoop have zero football players capable of lining up a defense correctly???

Now dont say jumper is one, he obviously struggles greatly in the only thing hes supposed to be good at. I know Volnation says Jumper is playing because hes great at quarterbacking the defense....well...my question to that is, have you seen our defense??? Do they seem well led? Well aligned? Do they make intelligent reads, and adjustments to motions, changes, do they adjust to shut down jet motion, and react accordingly, or do we fall victim to jet sweeps and resulting counters over and over???Do professional announcers coaches and former players heavily criticize all this and especially how the defense lines up.

If he is a liability in all aspects except his alignment skills and knowledge, then hes a liability overall, since this defenses biggest problem is the very thing jumper is responsible for....think about it...well then why is he out there? according to Shoop its not because hes the only guy smart enough or capable of understanding Shoops amazingly technical, calculus driven tetrahedronic paricle wave frequency oscillating RMS defensive rocket science sorcery, written in latin and cipher.

No Shoop doesnt say that. Only fans cook up such fallacious and borderline racist notions, "jumper is the only one smart enough, hes intelligent, bituli isnt there yet, sapp doesnt have that capacity," {actual quotes ive read}....are you kidding me, are people really saying that black athletes need a white boy to tell them where to stand on the field??? Wtf? Wtf! Anyone spouting that nonsense should be called out on it. But that myth is allowed, for some reason to persist....

BUT again Shoop doesnt say all that. Shoop says he plays more snaps than anyone else on defense because...."hes physical, plays really fast, has been our most consistent performer, hes in great shape, makes everyone around him better, is a vocal leader, can make calls and adjustments like you expect a linebacker or safety to do." Hmm interesting, so a safety like tKjr could do that??? I was led to believe only a middle linebacker, and only jumper could handle those duties....weird. in fact Shoop wanted Jumper and Kirkland on the field at the same time, said it would be best lb combination and he "definitely views him as a 1, not a backup."

So lets kill the myths...Bob Shoop really thinks Colton Jumper is our best linebacker. Marinate.
Click to expand...

You do realize that our STARTING MLB is black right?
 
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#25
#25
jkleno said:
Any thoughts on our Vols playing with 3 safeties the rest of the way instead of a 4-3 package? No disrespect to Jumper (he gives his all), but he can't get through blocks and is on the ground seemingly every play. Why not have Nigel Warrior play a hybrid LB/S role to help out the defense.
Click to expand...

That's called a "Nickel" defense. One DB in the box.
 
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