2024 Presidential Race

#15,653
#15,653
UT_VOLS13 said:
LOL, you unconditional support ANY dem, PERIOD! Your posts support my claim!
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That's not true. I have often said that Joe Biden is the embodiment of a career politician, and everything which is wrong with the United States government. He is an ineffective leader, and an untalented person. He is too old to be President ..... and I wish that he wasn't. I will vote for him, but that's just because he isn't Trump.

I have been far more critical of Joe Biden on this forum, than the average Republican/Conservative/MAGA member is of Donald Trump. I also don't support just ANY Democrat. I voted for Bob Corker in 2006, because I don't like how corrupt the Ford family out of Memphis is, and I didn't want one of them in the United States Senate. I also voted for Tim Burchett (although, that may have been a mistake). I probably won't do that again.
 
#15,654
#15,654
BowlBrother85 said:
That's not true. I have often said that Joe Biden is the embodiment of a career politician, and everything which is wrong with the United States government. He is an ineffective leader, and an untalented person. He is too old to be President ..... and I wish that he wasn't. I will vote for him, but that's just because he isn't Trump.

I have been far more critical of Joe Biden on this forum, than the average Republican/Conservative/MAGA member is of Donald Trump. I also don't support just ANY Democrat. I voted for Bob Corker in 2006, because I don't like how corrupt the Ford family out of Memphis is, and I didn't want one of them in the United States Senate. I also voted for Tim Burchett (although, that may have been a mistake). I probably won't do that again.
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LOL
 
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#15,655
#15,655
05_never_again said:
She is a politician. By definition, most of what she does is motivated by self-interest.
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There is nothing to indicate that she had anything to gain by opposing Donald Trump. You have even said yourself that she has enough political savvy to understand that it would hurt her politically if she did. Her voting record is too conservative for her to ever switch to the Democratic Party or run as an independent ... and Trump was too popular in her party for her to ever win another Republican Party Primary or work for Fox News, in the aftermath of her opposition to Trump's conduct. @hog88 is assigning her with an ulterior motive which doesn't make any sense.
 
#15,659
#15,659
hog88 said:
Unless she's on BBs side.
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Your explanation of Liz Cheney's opposition to Trump's conduct - only coming from a desire to run for the Presidency - will not make any sense to anyone outside of the Republican Party/MAGA echo chamber. It is a ridiculous notion, unsupported by common sense.
 
#15,660
#15,660
BowlBrother85 said:
There is nothing to indicate that she had anything to gain by opposing Donald Trump. You have even said yourself that she has enough political savvy to understand that it would hurt her politically if she did. Her voting record is too conservative for her to ever switch to the Democratic Party or run as an independent ... and Trump was too popular in her party for her to ever win another Republican Party Primary or work for Fox News, in the aftermath of her opposition to Trump's conduct. @hog88 is assigning her with an ulterior motive which doesn't make any sense.
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I don't really agree with the first sentence. Because of her connections and family political history, backing Donald Trump risked making her a pariah within her political network. She got where she is because of her dad and his political connections. If she backed Trump, while there are obvious political advantages to doing so, it also potentially cut her off from that network and she'd be out on her own.

Is she capable of building a new political network on her own? Perhaps, but it is much easier to just remain in the network that you've spent your entire professional life in that your dad created. I think she also likely feared (like Romney) that she, because of the aforementioned family connections, wouldn't be a very convincing pro-Trump spokesperson and might get lost in the shuffle of the gaggle of people trying to kiss his ring.

Basically she did an analysis of her options (none of which were great) and picked the one she thought was best for her career.
 
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#15,662
#15,662
05_never_again said:
Because of her connections and family political history, backing Donald Trump risked making her a pariah within her political network.
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That doesn't make any sense because of how much Liz Cheney voted with Donald Trump's publicly stated positions on bills. She did back the vast majority of Trump's policies. It was Trump's conduct that she primarily made an issue out of.
 
#15,666
#15,666
BowlBrother85 said:
That doesn't make any sense because of how much Liz Cheney voted with Donald Trump's publicly stated positions on bills. She did back the vast majority of Trump's policies. It was Trump's conduct that she primarily made an issue out of.
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Liz is in tight with the MIC and that community, which has always had a lukewarm at best reception to Trump. As far as policy overlap with Trump, she didn't vote with him 90% of the time because she loves Trump. She voted 90% of the time with Trump because much of what Trump advocates for are typical Republican policies. She does differ with him, especially in rhetoric, in one particular area though.

She did an analysis of her options and acted what she thought was in her best interest. Becoming a Democrat was, as you said, a total non-starter. Becoming an independent is a non-starter (it is basically impossible to function as a politician if you aren't a member of a party apparatus). She can embrace Trump, but that creates an awkward situation with her donors and backers, who are a bunch of Bill Kristol types who are skittish about Trump. She can oppose Trump, which keeps her in tight with that network, but puts her out of step with her party. Once Trump co-opted the GOP, she wasn't left with any good options.
 
#15,667
#15,667
05_never_again said:
Liz is in tight with the MIC and that community, which has always had a lukewarm at best reception to Trump. As far as policy overlap with Trump, she didn't vote with him 90% of the time because she loves Trump. She voted 90% of the time with Trump because much of what Trump advocates for are typical Republican policies. She does differ with him, especially in rhetoric, in one particular area though.
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She voted with Trump's publicly stated positions, I think more than anyone in the House of Reps .... save maybe one or two. She did support Trump. For the most part, her criticism of Trump has been associated with his conduct.
 
#15,669
#15,669
BowlBrother85 said:
She voted with Trump's publicly stated positions, I think more than anyone in the House of Reps .... save maybe one or two. She did support Trump. For the most part, her criticism of Trump has been associated with his conduct.
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That isn't saying as much as you think it is. If their party controls the WH, House members vote in line with the publicly supported policies of the President 90-95% of the time. It isn't like there were a bunch of Republicans who voted with Trump half the time, and here's Liz voting with Trump 95% of the time as some kind of outlier. They virtually all voted with him something like 90-95% of the time. That's because much of what Trump supports from a policy perspective is GOP orthodoxy. His policy, and especially his rhetoric, in one key area (foreign policy) isn't orthodox though, which is what concerns Liz and Mitt.

Liz might genuinely be opposed to Trump's conduct to some degree - I'd say many other Republicans are as well (perhaps more privately). However I don't think that is why in large part she opposes him.
 
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#15,670
#15,670
www.newsweek.com

Liz Cheney Voted With Trump 93 Percent of Her Congressional Career

Liz Cheney is not expected to keep her House seat in Wyoming, even though her conservative views and those of Donald Trump are nearly identical.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com

Liz Cheney's opposition to Donald Trump mostly concerned his conduct. She even voted against his 1st impeachment. The January 6th breach of the Capitol and the fake elector scheme seems to be where she drew a line in the sand. I'm not surprised at how reluctant the echo chamber here is to see that.
 
#15,671
#15,671
05_never_again said:
If their party controls the WH, House members vote in line with the publicly supported policies of the President 90-95% of the time.
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That is not true.

05_never_again said:
they virtually all voted with him something like 90-95% of the time.
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That is also not true.

05_never_again said:
That's because much of what Trump supports from a policy perspective is GOP orthodoxy.
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That is also not true when it comes to fiscal policy.

05_never_again said:
Liz might genuinely be opposed to Trump's conduct to some degree - I'd say many other Republicans are as well (perhaps more privately). However I don't think that is why in large part she opposes him.
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The facts say something much different, and they don't care about your feelings.
 
#15,672
#15,672
BowlBrother85 said:
www.newsweek.com

Liz Cheney Voted With Trump 93 Percent of Her Congressional Career

Liz Cheney is not expected to keep her House seat in Wyoming, even though her conservative views and those of Donald Trump are nearly identical.
www.newsweek.com www.newsweek.com

Liz Cheney's opposition to Donald Trump mostly concerned his conduct. She even voted against his 1st impeachment. The January 6th breach of the Capitol and the fake elector scheme seems to be where she drew a line in the sand. I'm not surprised at how reluctant the echo chamber here is to see that.
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She wasn't a fan of his well before January 6.

Trump was elected in large part because he was an anti-establishment candidate, and much of his early political momentum was created by humiliating Jeb Bush and other mainstream, establishment Republican figures. From that point forward, anybody aligned with Bush/Cheney and that crowd was going to be on the outside looking in, even if they voted with him a lot of the time.
 
#15,673
#15,673
TN Ribs said:
I could name far more than three but I refuse to play your nonsensical game. It’s simply your attempt to deflect because you know that you can’t defend Trump’s integrity or character. That’s your problem, not mine.
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So many of them remind you of your kin.
 
#15,674
#15,674
05_never_again said:
She wasn't a fan of his well before January 6.

Trump was elected in large part because he was an anti-establishment candidate, and much of his early political momentum was created by humiliating Jeb Bush and other mainstream, establishment Republican figures. From that point forward, anybody aligned with Bush/Cheney and that crowd was going to be on the outside looking in, even if they voted with him a lot of the time.
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I'm speaking in the facts of her voting record. And no, not every House Republican voted with Trump as much as she did - not even close. You are injecting a lot of BS into this. Trump governed just as much as an "establishment President" as anyone ever has. The "drain the swamp" rhetoric was hollow.
 
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