2022 HOF

[DonjoVol]

So who in the general ballot deserves to be in the Hall of Fame for 2022? Should anyone who has done PEDs or has been tied to it somehow deserve to get in? Should people still vote for Curt Schilling even though he asked them not to?

My thoughts on players like Bonds, Clemens, Manny, ARod, etc. Since McGwire and Palmeiro are already off the ballot and still might not get in then why should any of the other players mentioned above?

 

[TBrown]

Because Bonds is the greatest player of all time

 

[DonjoVol]

Because Bonds is the greatest player of all time

I understand that. But the man with the most hits is not in. Palmeiro and McGwire did not receive enough votes because they were tied to PEDs like Bonds . If Bonds gets in then it's only fair for Palmeiro and McGwire to be voted in if they are ever on a Veterans Committee in the future.

 

[TBrown]

I understand that. But the man with the most hits is not in. Palmeiro and McGwire did not receive enough votes because they were tied to PEDs like Bonds . If Bonds gets in then it's only fair for Palmeiro and McGwire to be voted in if they are ever on a Veterans Committee in the future.

Rose, Palmeiro and McGwire combined aren’t as good as Barry Bonds.

McGwire had one skill, directly correlated with steroids. I’m fine if he rots absent the HOF.

 

[zjcvols]

I understand that. But the man with the most hits is not in. Palmeiro and McGwire did not receive enough votes because they were tied to PEDs like Bonds . If Bonds gets in then it's only fair for Palmeiro and McGwire to be voted in if they are ever on a Veterans Committee in the future.

That’s because he bet on his team (and allegedly against them). Bonds took steroids when MLB turned a blind eye knowing it was happen.

Palmeiro actually tested positive when MLB started testing, so I don’t mind he’s not in.

If Bud Selig gets in, then pre 2005 PED users should get in.

 

[DonjoVol]

That’s because he bet on his team (and allegedly against them). Bonds took steroids when MLB turned a blind eye knowing it was happen.

Palmeiro actually tested positive when MLB started testing, so I don’t mind he’s not in.

If Bud Selig gets in, then pre 2005 PED users should get in.

So Rose and Shoeless Joe should be punished and kept out forever?

So do the same standards for Palmeiro apply to Manny and ARod?

If Bonds gets in then it's only fair McGwire, Sosa, Sheffield, and Clemens get in right?

 

[Wickman]

So Rose and Shoeless Joe should be punished and kept out forever?

So do the same standards for Palmeiro apply to Manny and ARod?

If Bonds gets in then it's only fair McGwire, Sosa, Sheffield, and Clemens get in right?

Bob’s is different because he was a HOF pre-steroids

 

[zjcvols]

So Rose and Shoeless Joe should be punished and kept out forever?

So do the same standards for Palmeiro apply to Manny and ARod?

If Bonds gets in then it's only fair McGwire, Sosa, Sheffield, and Clemens get in right?

Shoeless Joe wasnt implicit. Rose was, lied about it for 15 years, then only came clean when he was broke and wanted to sell a book. It’s also established you don’t put on it against your team and knew the punishment. Unlike the PED users.

Yes I would not vote for Manny or A-Rod

Any PED users that took pre 2005 id put in

 

[DonjoVol]

Shoeless Joe wasnt implicit. Rose was, lied about it for 15 years, then only came clean when he was broke and wanted to sell a book. It’s also established you don’t put on it against your team and knew the punishment. Unlike the PED users.

Yes I would not vote for Manny or A-Rod

Any PED users that took pre 2005 id put in

It really sucks though because ARod, Manny and Palmeiro are 3 of the best all time statistically.

As for PEDs there were other players like Jason Grimsley who obviously did not benefit from using them.

 

[zjcvols]

My ballot

Bonds
Clemens
Rolen
Schilling
Jones
Sosa
Sheffield
Ortiz

 

[C/O]

If roiding is wrong I don’t want to be right. Bonds needs to be in.

 

[DonjoVol]

My ballot

Bonds
Clemens
Rolen
Schilling
Jones
Sosa
Sheffield
Ortiz

No Todd Helton? And I agree Schilling should be in. He should have been in at least 5 years ago. However, he has said he does not want people voting for him this year and even asked to be removed from the ballot.

 

[zjcvols]

No Todd Helton? And I agree Schilling should be in. He should have been in at least 5 years ago. However, he has said he does not want people voting for him this year and even asked to be removed from the ballot.

Helton is really tough. I just think playing Coors for half the year was so freaking advantageous pre humidor. They were playing a different sport.

If I thought there were 10 guys worthy I’d have Schilling off my ballot for that reason but I didn’t. He will get in the veterans committee one day.

 

[DonjoVol]

Helton is really tough. I just think playing Coors for half the year was so freaking advantageous pre humidor. They were playing a different sport.

If I thought there were 10 guys worthy I’d have Schilling off my ballot for that reason but I didn’t. He will get in the veterans committee one day.

Helton's BA, OBP, OPS and OPS+ is enough to get him in. Plus I think he had around 2400 to 2500 career hits. Larry Walker is also in and he played a significant amount of time at Coors.

 

[DonjoVol]

My ballot

Bonds
Clemens
Rolen
Schilling
Jones
Sosa
Sheffield
Ortiz

I think one problem is that the ballot is too crowded. In the past guys like Bonds, Clemens, Sosa and Sheffield would have already been voted in. Instead some of them are on their final year on the ballot. Veterans Committee will have to more than likely decide their fate. This logjam that has been created has caused players like Miguel Tejada to go off the ballot early and Fred McGriff not to be voted in at all. Now if Clemens and Bonds get voted in this year then it would be hard to justify not voting for someone like Gary Sheffield.

My ballot is as follows:
Helton
Kent
Rolen
Wagner
Papelbon
Rollins
Vizquel
Hunter
Jones
Hudson

 

[zjcvols]

I think one problem is that the ballot is too crowded. In the past guys like Bonds, Clemens, Sosa and Sheffield would have already been voted in. Instead some of them are on their final year on the ballot. Veterans Committee will have to more than likely decide their fate. This logjam that has been created has caused players like Miguel Tejada to go off the ballot early and Fred McGriff not to be voted in at all. Now if Clemens and Bonds get voted in this year then it would be hard to justify not voting for someone like Gary Sheffield.

My ballot is as follows:
Helton
Kent
Rolen
Wagner
Papelbon
Rollins
Vizquel
Hunter
Jones
Hudson

I’m fine with Helton, Kent, Rolen, Wagner and Jones. If you aren’t gonna put PED guys in, then I agree with putting in guys who have borderline cases with no PED’s attached. Even if I don’t have Kent or Helton in. I’m perfectly fine with opinion.

Vizquel is to me a terrible case. He’s a very good glove guy, but he had nowhere near the impact of an Ozzie Smith or Brooks Robinson, was a legitimately bad hitter, and his counting stats are a joke because of how long he held on.

Papelbon was a fine closer, underrated playoff guy, but not a good enough career. I’d rather have Nathan and Wagner. Wasn’t dominant enough for me.

Rollins just didn’t have enough offense. Extremely durable, great defender. Only six times above league average as a hitter though. I do like his care more than Vizquel. Just not good enough of a hitter.

Hunter is a lot like Rollins. Very good player. Very solid defender (though advanced metrics aren’t as big of a fan). But not enough offense. Career 110+ OPS and spent the a good portion of his career in RF so didn’t accumulate enough defensive value like Andruw. Very good player. Just not enough of a hitter.

Hudson I love as a player and pitcher. Really good career. Just not dominant enough for me. Only three elite seasons based on WAR. Really good pitcher though.

 

[zjcvols]

The one case for Helton is after the humidors were established in 2003 and did stabilize the offense, Helton put up an OPS of .994 for the next five years and that was in his 30’s. And was durable as hell while playing in Colorado. I’m talking myself into Helton now

 

[n_huffhines]

2 Helton stories:

Must've been spring 1993 (so I was 11) and my Dad took me to see Helton play at Oak Ridge, and he's telling me he's going to be a major leaguer. Helton is stretching in front of the dugout while his team takes infield. 3rd baseman sails a throw over the 1st baseman's head and it blindsided Helton. Knocked him out cold. I mean, he dropped like a sack of potatos. For a second, we were thinking he could be dead. He woke up and hit 2 home runs.

Not exactly a story, just a memory of watching him as the offensive star for UT, playing outfield, and then getting called to the mound to get the last couple batters in a close game. The crowd went bananas.

 

[Boston Vol]

Bonds and Clemens were hall of famers before they started taking steroids. So yes they should be in.