2020 qb comparison/talk/debate (merged)

1. Manning
2. Clausen
3. Holloway
4. Bray
5. Shuler
6. Dobbs
7. Martin
8. Ainge
9. Robinson
10. Kelly

Robinson would have been #1 if he hadn't tore his knee. The Ice Man is my all time favorite though. He may have been the toughest SOB to ever play QB for TN. His 4 and forever completion for a First Down against Bama is stuff of legends.
 
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I don’t know much about him other than hearsay so it wouldn’t have been fair to include him. From what I understand he’s more of a running threat. Speed is insane so he probably would be a 9 and an 8 in elusiveness. He ran a 4.38 (?) which truthfully isn’t much faster than Maurer so I MAY have sold Maurer a little short with a 7.
Isnt much faster than Maurer?
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You must have grown tired of all the honesty? Come on man..... I expected more from you! I figured you of all people would at least put up a dishonest fight over an ACTUAL qb comparison


4.79 verified vs 4.38 verified. Both times are laser timed from The Opening


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JH is much faster. Even if we go by the hand timed 4.51 that has been discussed that is a huge difference. Saying a 4.51 is not much faster than a 4.38 is like saying Vernon Davis isn't much faster than Greg Olsen. That is a 4.38 to a 4.51. Huge gap.
 
4.79 verified vs 4.38 verified. Both times are laser timed from The Opening


3fc6e0_a04a302a8a7641599b5550a3ad9acf1e~mv2.webp


JH is much faster. Even if we go by the hand timed 4.51 that has been discussed that is a huge difference. Saying a 4.51 is not much faster than a 4.38 is like saying Vernon Davis isn't much faster than Greg Olsen. That is a 4.38 to a 4.51. Huge gap.
🤔. I guess you didn’t know that 4.79 was his laser time from his sophomore year in Hs from the elite 11 regional in Orlando. Not “The Opening”. At “The Opening” he was playing on a fractured foot he suffered in his spring game so...... wrong again buddy.
 
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🤔. I guess you didn’t know that 4.79 was his laser time from his sophomore year in Hs from the elite 11 regional in Orlando. Not “The Opening”. At “The Opening” he was playing on a fractured foot he suffered in his spring game so...... wrong again buddy.
So what?

Fact stands that laser timed its 4.79 to 4.38. Nowhere near as fast.
So out of 10 on speed and elusivesness JH is about a 9 or ten in each.
BM is at about a 6. He only had a 2.2 ypc average for 48 yards rushing. 4.79 VERIFIED forty
 
Yes, but it has been about 40 years since I took a math class and I did that pretty quickly so it might be off. At one time I was a math major.
I didn’t realize it was that many yards tbh. You could be right. Point is he reaches the end zone at a minimum. Either way Holliday isn’t much faster and truth be told 40 times wouldn’t tell you anyway. Maurers top speed may be around 18 mph vs Holliday at 21 or vise versa. Who knows?
 
So what?

Fact stands that laser timed its 4.79 to 4.38. Nowhere near as fast.
Dude....really? 4.79 as a sophomore. That means he was 14-15 years old then. He’s gotten bigger, stronger and faster since then. News flash: he’s a freshman in COLLEGE now.
 
Dude....really? 4.79 as a sophomore. That means he was 14-15 years old then. He’s gotten bigger, stronger and faster since then. News flash: he’s a freshman in COLLEGE now.
Give me an updated VERIFIED time and we will use that. Until then he runs a 4.79. That actually translates pretty well to a hand-timed 4.51.

BM is athletic no matter the time really.

He isn't in the same zip code as JH speed wise. Nothing wrong with that. JH will be the second or third fastest on the team day one.
 
So what?

Fact stands that laser timed its 4.79 to 4.38. Nowhere near as fast.
So out of 10 on speed and elusivesness JH is about a 9 or ten in each.
BM is at about a 6. He only had a 2.2 ypc average for 48 yards rushing. 4.79 VERIFIED forty
And if that’s the best you can come up with to debate the comparison I’ll take that as you now see why I say BM is the most talented qb we have. You also agree they were NEVER properly evaluated on INDIVIDUAL talent NOR compared against one another?
 
Give me an updated VERIFIED time and we will use that. Until then he runs a 4.79. That actually translates pretty well to a hand-timed 4.51.

BM is athletic no matter the time really.

He isn't in the same zip code as JH speed wise. Nothing wrong with that. JH will be the second or third fastest on the team day one.
Are you using your “go to” tactic of not answering comment 118 because the only thing you can say is “you’re right”?
 
And if that’s the best you can come up with to debate the comparison I’ll take that as you now see why I say BM is the most talented qb we have. You also agree they were NEVER properly evaluated on INDIVIDUAL talent NOR compared against one another?
May be the fifth most talented next year.

Since you want to do number rankings lets go. I won't use experience because that gives JG an unfair advantage.
Secstatcat

Accuracy
JG-8 59.29 % 55.31 accuracy%
Hb-8 n/a assumed due to ranking and hs performance
Hill-6 53.4%
Jt-5 48.15% 48.15%
JH-4 assumed
BM-4 47.22% 45.83%

Pocket presence
HB- 8 assumed -
Jg-7 lowest sack rate
JT-7
Bm-6 quickest release highest sack rate
Hill-6 sack rate similar to BM
JH-6 assumed

Ball placement-
HB-8 assumed
JG- 8
Hill-6
JT-5
JH-4 assumed
BM-3 18.06 passes are interceptible vs 6.64 JG and 7.41 JT , lowest rate of accurately thrown passes

Arm strength
All about a 7-8 so 7.5 for each

Awareness
JG-8
HB- 7 assumed
Hill-6 assumed
JH- 3 assumed
BM- 3 high turnover, sack, and fumble rates, low percentages and ypa
JT-3 throws into coverage

Speed
JH-10
BM-7
JG-6
HB-4
Hill-3
JT-3

Elusiveness
JH-10
BM-5
JG-5
Hill-4
HB-3
JT-3

Improvisation
JH-9
BM-7
JG-6
Hill-5
HB-5
JT-3

Decision Making
JG-9
HB-8
Hill-6
JH-4
BM-3

Totals-
JG-64.5
HB-60.5
JH-56.5
Hill- 48.5
BM-38.5
JT-36.5


More like fourth or fifth if we are going by raw talent.

He can't throw like JG or Bailey and he can't run like Holiday.
 
May be the fifth most talented next year.

Since you want to do number rankings lets go. I won't use experience because that gives JG an unfair advantage.
Secstatcat

Accuracy
JG-8 59.29 % 55.31 accuracy%
Hb-8 n/a assumed due to ranking and hs performance
Hill-6 53.4%
Jt-5 48.15% 48.15%
JH-4 assumed
BM-4 47.22% 45.83%

Pocket presence
HB- 8 assumed -
Jg-7 lowest sack rate
JT-7
Bm-6 quickest release highest sack rate
Hill-6 sack rate similar to BM
JH-6 assumed

Ball placement-
HB-8 assumed
JG- 8
Hill-6
JT-5
JH-4 assumed
BM-3 18.06 passes are interceptible vs 6.64 JG and 7.41 JT , lowest rate of accurately thrown passes

Arm strength
All about a 7-8 so 7.5 for each

Awareness
JG-8
HB- 7 assumed
Hill-6 assumed
JH- 3 assumed
BM- 3 high turnover, sack, and fumble rates, low percentages and ypa
JT-3 throws into coverage

Speed
JH-10
BM-7
JG-6
HB-4
Hill-3
JT-3

Elusiveness
JH-10
BM-5
JG-5
Hill-4
HB-3
JT-3

Improvisation
JH-9
BM-7
JG-6
Hill-5
HB-5
JT-3

Decision Making
JG-9
HB-8
Hill-6
JH-4
BM-3

Totals-
JG-64.5
HB-60.5
JH-56.5
Hill- 48.5
BM-38.5
JT-36.5


More like fourth or fifth if we are going by raw talent.

He can't throw like JG or Bailey and he can't run like Holiday.
Once again. You’re talking about freshman so you can’t use collegiate stats if you’re being fair. So you’re wrong as you’re comparing undeveloped vs developed. The ONLY one you can use collegiate stats for is JG due to his experience vs the others. So by THAT comparison I’ve actually sold BM short in speed, arm strength and improvise just to keep it close as possible. BM was 7 yards short of Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields in terms of arm strength. HB was 7 yards short of BM. If you want to break out stats, I can play that game too. But I’ll be fair for freshman qbs and use the stats that more accurately demonstrate who they are in an offense they completely understood.
 
Best ever has gotta include Montana in the conversation
It absolutely does. I think where it starts getting hard to debate and who to include is the evolution of the game and qbs themselves. Montana was the best of his era and is in the conversation even today but can we say Aaron Rodgers isn’t better? Ehhhh.🤨 It’s hard to say no because his skills are so different.
 
Once again. You’re talking about freshman so you can’t use collegiate stats if you’re being fair. So you’re wrong as you’re comparing undeveloped vs developed. The ONLY one you can use collegiate stats for is JG due to his experience vs the others. So by THAT comparison I’ve actually sold BM short in speed, arm strength and improvise just to keep it close as possible. BM was 7 yards short of Trevor Lawrence and Justin Fields in terms of arm strength. HB was 7 yards short of BM. If you want to break out stats, I can play that game too. But I’ll be fair for freshman qbs and use the stats that more accurately demonstrate who they are in an offense they completely understood.
No, we saw plenty of BM, Hill has played, we saw some of JT. We use college stats for college players. Now if some can't perform in college oh well.

We are also rating them on a scale for college are we not? So if we see a guy is inaccurate vs college players then he is inaccurate right? Doesn't matter about HS when we see him vs actual college players.

BM is not the best in any category.
Arm strength all close.
Accuracy and decision making JG and HB are best.
Speed and elusiveness are Holiday with no one close at all.

Out of the ones that have played college ball BM is the third or fourth best passer. That is a statistical fact.
 
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