2017 Vols will have the #1 or #2 ranked DEFENSE in the SEC

#77
#77
BigOrangeTrain said:
Is he really elite? If so, how?
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Elite enough to go from a DL coach at Oregon St. and Michigan to a head coach at Ball St., San Diego St. and Michigan. I guess 3 schools thought he was elite. Although, I doubt Michigan thinks he is an elite head coach and Oregon, probably doesn't think he is an elite defensive coordinator. So, imo, he is back doing what he is truly elite at, coaching the DL and apparently recruiting big time defensive lineman

Oh yeah, watch Michigan fall off this year after most of his recruits are gone, even with the "great" Jim Harbaugh as the head coach
 
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#78
#78
BigOrangeTrain said:
How can you really be confident in our defense? I mean this as an honest question. The DL? Will KMac ahd Tuttle be able to play a full season? Maybe. Maybe not. One of the best pass rushers the SEC has ever seen is gone. Can we replace Barnett? Maybe. But honestly, I dont think we will.

Our LB and DB play has been below average. Now, both of those could improve. And they will have to dramatically if our defense is going to succeed. The OL shoukd be much less of a concern than the defense. Our defense was atrocious last year. So all of a sudden its going to go from atrocious to elite? I sure hope so but I dont see it.
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It was atrocious because of injuries. If all our starters had stayed healthy we would have been a lot better. Now if we get decimiated by injuries like that again then I obviously do not expect the defense to be any good. But I expect we'll stay relatively healthy and I think we've improved overall based on more talent and experience.

Barnett was great but he's replaceable. Kongbo and Taylor are more physically gifted. And while they may not equal his individual production, I think as a tandem they can be better than Barnett and Vereen.

I think you'll be surprised by how dominant this unit will be. Based on talent, I think they have the potential to be as good as Alabama's defense.
 
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#79
#79
forgiven said:
i think you have it upside down it will be the defense that will have a problem if there is one.
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Nah. On offense we'll be replacing the greatest playmaker in school history (Josh Dobbs) and one of the most explosive running backs in school history (Alvin Kamara). Those 2 guys made what was a god awful offensive line look halfway decent. Without Dobbs elusiveness, the offense will be less explosive. We'll still score close to 30ppg but it won't be quite the record setting offense we had last year.

The defense sufferered so many injuries last year that they have nowhere to go but up.
 
#80
#80
Evet Vols said:
I didn't even see Shaq Wiggins or Maleik Gray on his list.
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I have yet to see either guy play and I like the talent we have ahead of them. I'll be surprised if Shaq Wiggins plays ahead of Martin or Moseley. Both players are more talented than him and have more experience here. I like Gray as an athlete. But we are stacked at safety and I doubt he plays much outside of special teams.
 
#81
#81
Well, I got my dose of nightly entertainment. This thread is certainly bad news for Butch Jones.
 
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#83
#83
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
The more I look at the talent we have on that side of the ball, the more I like it. On offense I still have concerns about the offensive line and at wide receiver. However, on defense I have zero concerns when it comes to talent or depth. Last year was a fluke for Bob Shoop. Injuries played a large factor and guys like Willie Martinez were trying to undercut his authority. This year I expect to see him look like the elite defensive coordinator he looked like at Penn State and Vanderbilt. Expect the defensive line to be among the best in the nation. Jonathan Kongbo and Darrell Taylor are NFL caliber athletes. Kendal Vickers is a starting caliber NFL DT and Kahlil McKenzie is as talented a one technique as there is. Look out for Justin Martin and Emmanuel Moseley to have huge seasons as well this year. I think both will be All-SEC caliber CBs and NFL draft picks. Also look out for Nigel Warrior and Daniel Bituli to turn into superstars. They might be the two most physically gifted athletes on our defense. I think both will have breakout seasons as sophomores. And finally, expect to see Darrin Kirkland Jr. take on the mantle as the undisputed leader of the defense. He's got a good chance at being a First Team All-American. Overall, the defense will be top 10 nationally and rank first or second (to Alabama) in the SEC.

Just look at the talent and experience we have across the board:

SDE - Jonathan Kongbo (R-Jr.) / Kyle Phillips (Jr.) / Matthew Butler (Fr.)
DT - Kendal Vickers (R-Sr.) / Shy Tuttle (Jr.) / Quay Picou (Jr.)
DT - Kahlil McKenzie (Jr.) / Alexis Johnson (R-Jr.)
WDE - Darrell Taylor (R-So.) / Deandre Johnson (Fr.)

WLB - Darrin Kirkland Jr. (Jr.) / Quart'e Sapp (R-So.) / Cortez McDowell (Sr.)
MLB - Daniel Bituli (So.) / Colton Jumper (Sr.)
SLB - Austin Smith (R-So.) / Dillon Bates (R-Jr.)

CB - Justin Martin (Sr.) / Baylen Buchanan (So.)
CB - Emmanuel Moseley (Sr.) / Cheyenne Labruzza (Fr.)
NB- Rashaan Gaulden (R-Jr.) / Marquill Osborne (So.)
FS - Micah Abernathy (Jr.) / Evan Berry (Sr.)
SS - Nigel Warrior (So.) / Todd Kelly Jr. (Sr.)


The media will look really stupid in December when we are in Atlanta in large part because of a defense that they felt did not have a single player worthy of being voted onto any of the preseason All-SEC defensive teams.
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So we just lost arguably the best DE in school history, and another solid DE in Vereen, Sutton, and JRM.....we have huge questions at DT, DE, LB and CB, two new position coaches and a returning DC who just coordinated one of the worst defenses in school history, and you think we're magically gonna jump from being the #11 defense in the SEC to #1 or #2 in one year? So we're gonna go from Sunseri to Saban just like that eh? Unless Warrior takes a leap forward, starts and locks down one of the safety positions, we're still not gonna be particularly good there....especially since we lost your boy Stephen Griffin, lol!

Look no further than the DE position. You state "just look at the talent and experience we have across the board". What are you talking about? Talent? Yes. Experience? Where? At SDE you got Kongbo, Phillips and Butler. Kongbo and Phillips played virtually no DE last year due to having to slide inside out of position and help at DT....Matthew Butler is a true freshman who's never played a snap of college football. Same goes on the Weak side with Darrell Taylor who's played very few if any meanginful snaps thus far and Deandre Johnson who, like Butler, is a true freshman who's yet to play a down of college football.

Dear God....can you not just have a legit, rational discussion about pros and cons, strengths and weaknesses of a defense we've not even seen yet rather than spouting your typical hyperbolic BS again?
 
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#84
#84
Posts like this are exactly why I like D4. If we all shared the same opinions, this place would be pretty boring.
 
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#86
#86
KBVol said:
So we just lost arguably the best DE in school history, and another solid DE in Vereen, Sutton, and JRM.....we have huge questions at DT, DE, LB and CB, two new position coaches and a returning DC who just coordinated one of the worst defenses in school history, and you think we're magically gonna jump from being the #11 defense in the SEC to #1 or #2 in one year? So we're gonna go from Sunseri to Saban just like that eh? Unless Warrior takes a leap forward, starts and locks down one of the safety positions, we're still not gonna be particularly good there....especially since we lost your boy Stephen Griffin, lol!

Look no further than the DE position. You state "just look at the talent and experience we have across the board". What are you talking about? Talent? Yes. Experience? Where? At SDE you got Kongbo, Phillips and Butler. Kongbo and Phillips played virtually no DE last year due to having to slide inside out of position and help at DT....Matthew Butler is a true freshman who's never played a snap of college football. Same goes on the Weak side with Darrell Taylor who's played very few if any meanginful snaps thus far and Deandre Johnson who, like Butler, is a true freshman who's yet to play a down of college football.

Dear God....can you not just have a legit, rational discussion about pros and cons, strengths and weaknesses of a defense we've not even seen yet rather than spouting your typical hyperbolic BS again?
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Not agreeing with you doesn't make a discussion irrational. And I love how you totally ignore the fact our defense was totally ravaged by injuries last year when discussing Shoop. Now tell how that is rational? Bob Shoop had a track record that spanned years at Vanderbilt and Penn State where fielded elite defenses. He has one bad year here when his entire defense is decimated by injuries and you compare him to Sunseri?

Please save us this bull about being rational. You're the same clown who spent all last off-season saying Tennessee couldn't beat Florida because of some mental roadblock rather than talent and coaching. You're the last person to try and talk about rational discussions.
 
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#88
#88
BeardedVol said:
New year, same D4H threads.

After the Florida game, our d-line will be the talk of college football
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The d-line did dominate against Florida. Especially the second half. It's sad that we had so many injuries at that position cause I really liked how they started the year. Danny O'Brien looked phenomenal in that game against Va-Tech.

It's kinda difficult to rate the d-line last year considering they were the hardest hit by injuries. Remember by the end of the year, Kendal Vickers was our only remaining healthy DT. Obviously if we are hit by injuries like that once again, we won't be very good. But I'm banking on decent health for a change with this team this year.

A healthy 2017 Vols defense = dominant
 
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#89
#89
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
The d-line did dominate against Florida. Especially the second half. It's sad that we had so many injuries at that position cause I really liked how they started the year. Danny O'Brien looked phenomenal in that game against Va-Tech.

It's kinda difficult to rate the d-line last year considering they were the hardest hit by injuries. Remember by the end of the year, Kendal Vickers was our only remaining healthy DT. Obviously if we are hit by injuries like that once again, we won't be very good. But I'm banking on decent health for a change with this team this year.

A healthy 2017 Vols defense = dominant
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One of the better defensive performances of 2016, but "dominating" it was not, and no other team outside of TN Tech had any more fear of our DL after the Florida game, than they did before.

fl-tn-stats.png


As usual, neither reality nor history live up to your delusions.
 
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#90
#90
Best starting 22 in the country again? Throwing **** against the wall in hope that is sticks again. Not that I disagree that our defense could be good this year, just that before every season this clown proclaims our team will be the best in history..... One day he might be close to being correct.
 
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#91
#91
Remy said:
It's not who makes the preseason all SEC teams, it's who makes them after the season has ended that counts. Trent Thompson as a first teamer DL is a joke.
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Just trying to help WD appreciate that at this point, there is a lot more substance to nay than yay. I'll go ahead and finish to give you an opportunity to reasonably explain how Jonathan Kongbo is better than Trent Thompson.
 
#92
#92
TUSKtimes said:
Just trying to help WD appreciate that at this point, there is a lot more substance to nay than yay. I'll go ahead and finish to give you an opportunity to reasonably explain how Jonathan Kongbo is better than Trent Thompson.
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Better school attendance and cheaper therapist bills? :dunno:
 
#95
#95
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
Nah. On offense we'll be replacing the greatest playmaker in school history (Josh Dobbs) and one of the most explosive running backs in school history (Alvin Kamara). Those 2 guys made what was a god awful offensive line look halfway decent. Without Dobbs elusiveness, the offense will be less explosive. We'll still score close to 30ppg but it won't be quite the record setting offense we had last year.

The defense sufferered so many injuries last year that they have nowhere to go but up.
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I disagree with your premise that this D is expected to dominate and be 1st or 2nd ranked in conference. It could happen like anything could happen, but it would have to improve from 11th total D to your lofty prediction. Losing the most dominant lineman in Barnett from last year's team, I don't see any proven replacement. Not that someone might emerge, but we will have to wait and see.

Yes, this D was decimated by injury last season. But every single unit performed poorly (DL, LBs, and DBs) at times. DT remains shaky with only a possibility of Tuttle's return in 2017. There is little reason NOT to think that as a whole they can improve, but you are using blind faith to think they will be 1st or 2nd.

And just conversely to your thoughts on the Offense being the weak spot, I see reasons to believe they might be stronger. Can't duplicate Dobbs as a runner. He was a long stride gazelle. But I can see one or both QBs throwing as well or better, an experienced and possibly solid OL for a change, several WRs with upside, and a durable starting RB with some new talent.

I said earlier that I think the D will predicate how successful we can be this season, because they are the unknown factor in my opinion. Hoping that they will be healthier, more physical, and that the coaching changes make a difference along with experience.
 
#96
#96
I thought many of the responses were fair but some of the most accepted ones left me with questions.

1. Media won't pick us because we basically broke their heart.

Well, they are wrong literally almost every year. Meaning every East team has broken their heart, so why single us out?

2.CBJ has failed them.

He could have done more agreed. But if they were picking us anything above a darkhorse in 2015 or prior, that's their own ignorance. Last season, the defense was definitely more responsible for not winning the East, no matter the cause of defensive failures. (injuries, Shoop, coaches not meshing, whatever reason you believe)

With changing both so many players and coaches, I wouldn't pick us either.
But if they're doing it because their predictions didn't pan out, well they're always wrong so..
 
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#97
#97
BearCat204 said:
Best starting 22 in the country again? Throwing **** against the wall in hope that is sticks again. Not that I disagree that our defense could be good this year, just that before every season this clown proclaims our team will be the best in history..... One day he might be close to being correct.
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We were totally ravaged by injuries last year. Our starting 22 barely played any games together. Injuries started to mount shortly after week 2 and 3.
 
#98
#98
Dobbs 4 Heisman said:
We were totally ravaged by injuries last year. Our starting 22 barely played any games together. Injuries started to mount shortly after week 2 and 3.
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Our 22 were at no point even close to the best in the country.... Not even close. In fact the only player on the roster that would even be considered to be the best at their position was Derrick Barnett
 
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