2017: The 5 dumb things Volnation will continually write

#76
#76
JonGrudensAgent said:
The expectation should be higher than 8-4 next season just as it rightly was this season IMO. Alabama and LSU will be the only two teams with distinct talent advantages.

The reality is that Jones has proven in each and every season he has been here that he is capable of losing to teams that he has the talent advantage over.

Given the sorry state of the SEC East the past few years, the discussion should be how the Vols are going to defend their title for a 3rd consecutive season.

Unfortunately, the reality of how Jones and his teams have actually performed precludes many folk including myself from actually setting the bar that high for next season.

We are seeing those lowered expectations despite having a roster that most teams would envy from a talent stand point even minus Dobbs, Kamara, Malone, Barnett, Sutton, and Maybin.

That's where I think it's short sighted to just focus on the returning talent as the ultimate factor in making a prediction next season. No matter how many 4 and 5 star players this team has, it's going to be up to the coaches to elevate their own games beyond what we have seen the past 4 seasons.
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Both Florida and Georgia will have more talented rosters than UT next season.
 
#79
#79
Boca Vol said:
You can set your watch to it!

The 11-1, playoff crowd from the preseason are the same ones justifying the record.
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Oh, I know.

It's almost like some of these guys are working so hard to defend Jones as a means to defend themselves for having such high expectations this season.
 
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#80
#80
touchdown-tony said:
LMAO

On what planet is a 14-18 confrence record "about as good as" a 26-6 conference record?
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I won't give Fulmer any credit for his partial season. He beat a group of cupcakes to close out the season and won a bowl game. He wasn't inheriting a consistent 9-3 team to do that.He goes
1993 9 - 2 (almost all teams we beat this year finished with less than 6 wins and we got blasted in our bowl game)
1994 8 - 4( same as previous year except we won the bowl game)
1995 11-1 (of the teams we beat, all but 3 were .500. Alabama was an 8 win team.the only team we beat in regular season with more than 8 wins was Southern Miss who had 9. We beat Oh St. in the bowl game.)
1996 10-2. ( We beat 2 teams with winning records. Alabama was a 10 win team. S Carolina was a 6 win. We beat Northwestern in our bowl game but that didn't take the sting out of the loss to Memphis.)

So what's my point? We used to play in an SEC that was full of boat anchors and against out of conference teams that were middle of the pack guys from inferior competition. Those days are gone.
That's 38 and 9 in his first 4 years.
 
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#81
#81
JonGrudensAgent said:
The expectation should be higher than 8-4 next season just as it rightly was this season IMO. Alabama and LSU will be the only two teams with distinct talent advantages.

The reality is that Jones has proven in each and every season he has been here that he is capable of losing to teams that he has the talent advantage over.

Given the sorry state of the SEC East the past few years, the discussion should be how the Vols are going to defend their title for a 3rd consecutive season.

Unfortunately, the reality of how Jones and his teams have actually performed precludes many folk including myself from actually setting the bar that high for next season.

We are seeing those lowered expectations despite having a roster that most teams would envy from a talent stand point even minus Dobbs, Kamara, Malone, Barnett, Sutton, and Maybin.

That's where I think it's short sighted to just focus on the returning talent as the ultimate factor in making a prediction next season. No matter how many 4 and 5 star players this team has, it's going to be up to the coaches to elevate their own games beyond what we have seen the past 4 seasons.
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I do agree in that it doesn't matter how many 4 and 5 stars you have what does matter is how well you coach them to execute within your scheme and them executing on the field. But to say that we are going to take a step back next year because of a so-called talent drop off I don't agree with, we have the talent to succeed and I firmly believe they will this year. I could be way off like I was with thinking we were gonna win the East this year but you never know.

Also every coach except for maybe Nick Satan has shown that they are highly capable of losing to teams they have a significant talent advantage over it happens every year to just about every elite team. Some teams even lose multiple games where they have a significant talent advantage and that's just the world of college football for ya. Should be have the expectation that we are going to lose to some we have the talent advantage over absolutely not but history has shown that it will happen even to "elite" teams.
 
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#82
#82
xpsyclonex2002 said:
I won't give Fulmer any credit for his partial season. He beat a group of cupcakes to close out the season and won a bowl game. He wasn't inheriting a consistent 9-3 team to do that.He goes
1993 9 - 2 (almost all teams we beat this year finished with less than 6 wins and we got blasted in our bowl game)
1994 8 - 4( same as previous year except we won the bowl game)
1995 11-1 (of the teams we beat, all but 3 were .500. Alabama was an 8 win team.the only team we beat in regular season with more than 8 wins was Southern Miss who had 9. We beat Oh St. in the bowl game.)
1996 10-2. ( We beat 2 teams with winning records. Alabama was a 10 win team. S Carolina was a 6 win. We beat Northwestern in our bowl game but that didn't take the sting out of the loss to Memphis.)

So what's my point? We used to play in an SEC that was full of boat anchors and against out of conference teams that were middle of the pack guys from inferior competition. Those days are gone.
That's 38 and 9 in his first 4 years.
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Fulmer inherited a team that lost 7 SEC games in 4 years and he improved it by one win - losing only 6...

I think if you want to compare Butch to Phil, it starts with the nest season...
 
#83
#83
xpsyclonex2002 said:
I won't give Fulmer any credit for his partial season. He beat a group of cupcakes to close out the season and won a bowl game. He wasn't inheriting a consistent 9-3 team to do that.He goes
1993 9 - 2 (almost all teams we beat this year finished with less than 6 wins and we got blasted in our bowl game)
1994 8 - 4( same as previous year except we won the bowl game)
1995 11-1 (of the teams we beat, all but 3 were .500. Alabama was an 8 win team.the only team we beat in regular season with more than 8 wins was Southern Miss who had 9. We beat Oh St. in the bowl game.)
1996 10-2. ( We beat 2 teams with winning records. Alabama was a 10 win team. S Carolina was a 6 win. We beat Northwestern in our bowl game but that didn't take the sting out of the loss to Memphis.)

So what's my point? We used to play in an SEC that was full of boat anchors and against out of conference teams that were middle of the pack guys from inferior competition. Those days are gone.
That's 38 and 9 in his first 4 years.
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This year 8-4 with only two teams on our schedule that didn't reach a bowl game: Tech and Mizzou with four that wound up being divisional champs within their conferences. Is it fair to say the competition is stiffer than those in the beginning of the Fulmer golden era?
 
#84
#84
gunner said:
Both Florida and Georgia will have more talented rosters than UT next season.
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Based on what exactly?

Vols had a wide gap on FL in recruiting in 2014, 2015, and was within a couple of spots in 2016 despite having a small class.

The Gators are going to be going with an unsettled QB situation just like the Vols and replacing just as much as the Vols on defense.
 
#85
#85
Smokey'sHandler said:
I don't know if some of y'all are just ignorant or if you're just so blinded with the fact that you want Butch Jones fired and are dedicated to seeing this team fail that you fail to see the obvious:

QB: Quentin Dormady 4*, Sheraton Jones 4*, Jarrett Guarantano 4*
RB: CFA 4*
WR: Juaun Jennings 4*, Marquez Callaway 4*, Tyler Byrd 4*
TE: None
OL: Venzell Boulware 4*, Jack Jones 4*, Drew Richmond 5*, Jason Robertson 4*, Ryan Johnson 4*
DL: Kyle Phillips 5*, Johnathon Kongbo 5*, KMac 5*, Tuttle 4*, Andrew Butcher 4*, Derelle Taylor 4*, Alexis Johnson 4*
LB: Cortez McDowell 4*, Dillon Bates 4*, Quarte Sapp 4*, DKJ 4*, JaQuain Blakey 4*, Daniel Bituli 4*
DB: Justin Martin 4*, Marquill Osbourne 4*, Micah Abernathy 4*, Nigel Warrior 4*, TKJr 4*, Evan Berry 4*, Rahsaan Gaulden 4*

By my count that's 32 4*-5* players currently on the roster, most have played significant roles and several have contributed in some way. We have the talent all around to easily stay at 8-4 or be better next season. OL will be strong with tons of experience returning, we have a solid RB returning next year with a solid 2nd option coming in, our defense will be significantly improved in Shoops second season with him being able to implement more. We will ride and die by QB play. If we have solid QB play we could have a 10+ win season, mediocre QB play we are looking at 8 wins again but our roster is more than set up for more success.
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And as it stands now, half of the players you've mentioned have been injured to the point of never being able to reach their recruited potential, are buried int he depth chart at their position (sheriron jones), are coached by an incompetent position coach to the point that they have regressed in their skills (DBs and OL), or will be getting their first taste of college ball next year.

Our best position from a depth and experience perspective is the WR corps, that under CBJs offense, is primarily used for blocking.

But we are all supposed to put on orange glasses and believe that the same coaches that couldn't win the dumpster fire SEC East this year with team 120 and these vaunted backups above, are going to come out next year and mudstomp everyone but Alabama?

This is why our fanbase is the laughing stock of the offseason, and this year, it started before the bowl game had even finished.
 
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#86
#86
Smokey'sHandler said:
I do agree in that it doesn't matter how many 4 and 5 stars you have what does matter is how well you coach them to execute within your scheme and them executing on the field. But to say that we are going to take a step back next year because of a so-called talent drop off I don't agree with, we have the talent to succeed and I firmly believe they will this year. I could be way off like I was with thinking we were gonna win the East this year but you never know.

Also every coach except for maybe Nick Satan has shown that they are highly capable of losing to teams they have a significant talent advantage over it happens every year to just about every elite team. Some teams even lose multiple games where they have a significant talent advantage and that's just the world of college football for ya. Should be have the expectation that we are going to lose to some we have the talent advantage over absolutely not but history has shown that it will happen even to "elite" teams.
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Agree wholeheartedly.

My lack of faith heading into next season stems as much from how little faith I have in Jones and company at this point as how they replace production from Dobbs, Kamara, Malone, Barnett, Maybin, and Sutton.

So it's kind of a loaded question when someone ask a prediction for next season.

I think they should contend for the SEC East again next year based on your list.

I expect them to blow a couple of game they shouldn't and fall out of it though. It's been the history so far under Jones.
 
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#87
#87
Behr said:
Haha, and it will drive the other side so crazy GE's stock will double.
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I've been around here since the last days of Fulmer. There will always be excuse makers and apologists. Hell, there were quite a few defending Dooley right up until he was fired. It's not exactly like my post was a bold prediction.
 
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#88
#88
Smokey'sHandler said:
This year 8-4 with only two teams on our schedule that didn't reach a bowl game: Tech and Mizzou with four that wound up being divisional champs within their conferences. Is it fair to say the competition is stiffer than those in the beginning of the Fulmer golden era?
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Not really as it's a different era. There were only 18-20 bowls. USC, Vandy certainly wouldn't have made a bowl game as they would have had a losing record. App. St. & Ohio most likely wouldn't have either.

With the addition of the 12th game and with over 40 bowls the bar keeps getting lowered in order to claim a "successful" season.
 
#89
#89
gunner said:
Both Florida and Georgia will have more talented rosters than UT next season.
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We finally caught up with Florida in terms of talent AND experience this year...and I think they lose more than we do so I give us the edge on talent against the gators next season...if you look at the 2 deep that was listed for the gators when we beat them this year, they could be losing about 10 off their d...mostly starters...

Georgia may have more talent but I'm not sure thier OL will be any better than this year and they have some gaps on the D...they do get Chubb and Michell back at TB and Eason has a killer arm...still, I like us making it 3 in a row against the dogs next year...
 
#90
#90
Smokey'sHandler said:
This year 8-4 with only two teams on our schedule that didn't reach a bowl game: Tech and Mizzou with four that wound up being divisional champs within their conferences. Is it fair to say the competition is stiffer than those in the beginning of the Fulmer golden era?
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Absolutely. We live in an age or parity in the SEC, and the rest of the top 40 teams, unless you are Alabama.
 
#91
#91
xpsyclonex2002 said:
Posts like this really bring out the VN Dumba$$es. Here's some hard truth for the whiners and complainers. We had 5 great years in the 90's(95-98), and can't get over ourselves. 20 frickin years ago, we had a great run.... That's it. We had a random good year here and there but nothing like those 5. Now somehow we expect that every single year or "fayhr the coach"....Just like we did the one that got us those great 5 years.
By the way, Butch's first 4 years have been about as good as Fulmer's and he started with less to work with and the conference has better talent top to bottom now. Does he say some stupid crap like "life champion"? Yes. But I can belly that to watch the program build... Even if it's hard to watch.
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Disagree that our great run was only 4 years (95-98)....those were arguably the 4 of the best during that era, but I'd argue the run of outstanding/national relevance type football began in 1989 with a great 11-1 season and ended in 2004, with the second of back to back 10-3 seasons.

Over that 16 year timespan, we averaged right at 10 wins per year, had 9 10+ win seasons, lowest win total in a season was 8, the rest was 9 to 13. IMHO, that's sustained excellence and, quite honestly, what this program is capable of with the right leadership and commitment to winning.

Finally, as far as your statement that "by the way, Butch's first 4 years have been about as good as Fulmer's", am I missing the context of that statement, because it's not really close. Fulmer was 38-8-1, .826 (not counting his 4-0 in '92 as interim hc), whereas Jones now sits at 30-21, .588
 
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#92
#92
TAF said:
1) Thing is FOR SURE...The VOLS WILL BE the VIRTUAL, on-paper, in the minds of many, and...the VOLS have The BEST Staff in America...bar-NONE, SEC East & SEC Champions with an appearance to WIN IT ALL...after a Heisman is awarded to Quinton Dormandy.

2) Then the Season starts and REAL games are played...7-5.
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Jesus dude. If you are going to troll, at least spell Dormady's last name right.
 
#95
#95
24/7vol said:
And some negas will flame him if he wins 10..right?
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No. The "negas" just don't think Butch is capable of getting 10 wins and he hasn't proven he can yet. We're going in to year 5 and the best we have done is 8-4. That's a concern and rightfully so.
 
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#96
#96
BigOrangeTrain said:
Jesus dude. If you are going to troll, at least spell Dormady's last name right.
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joke+over+head.gif
 
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#98
#98
BeardedVol said:
Where to start:

1. List the 4* and 5* players on the roster for next year, not freshman commits.

2. The reason the offense looked as good as it did, is because Josh Dobbs was able to run out of busted plays. If you take away his ability to scramble, the dismal Oline performance, and yes, it was dismal, is even worse.

3. Kongbo has potential, I'll agree, but also looks like he has some 'diva' issues that are probably not going to play out well next year. Shy Tuttle will probably never play at an elite level after the injuries he has sustained. Phillips hasn't proven anything yet other than being a middle of the pack DL. McKenzie can't seem to stay healthy long enough to contribute.

4. You are seriously stretching with this one. The amount of experience alone we are losing is enough to be a drop off, but Dobbs and Kamara are the majority of this offensive production, and Derek Barnett is the only player on this defense that any team had to consistently worry about. Pure orange delusion if you can't acknowledge the talent drop from 2016-2017 starters.

5. Mike Debord/Butch's offense is tired, and predictable, and without a Josh Dobbs to bail out the busted plays, it's going to be painful to watch next year. Azzani isn't a terrible coach, but he isn't a good coach, and elite receivers are not coming to UT while he is here, which is evidenced by our WR recruiting. Mahoney, lol, how anyone can still defend him is tantamount to insanity. He wouldn't even be coaching at the high school level if it weren't for Butch Jones.
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Hide in a bunker dude you are gonna get lit up, especially for 2 & 5. Been saying 2 for over a year now. I'm not a football wizard, but it's not the hardest game in the world to understand and figure out. We can't win 1-on-1 battles consistently, and that even goes for when we play teams out of the power five. Sometimes I go back and watch games, just for a few minutes, and we will sometimes have players blocking air because they are taught to block a certain area rather than putting a block on a body. No wonder our RBs at times hit a wall at the line of scrimmage
 
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#99
#99
I would also like to note that while team 120 did not do as well as the pre-season expectations, they still had (tied for) the second best record in the SEC (8-4), (not including bowls, but having won, they will still be at least tied for second). Only Bama had a better record.
 
#100
#100
If you want a spinning head read every post in this thread. We go from one extreme to the other and every poster speaks as one having authority. One mentions one area as a strength and the very next poster mentions same area as a weakness. Sometimes I do wonder if I'm watching the same team play as others here.
 
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