2017 By the numbers...

#76
#76
Daj, this analysis is a zero sum game, correct?
Which coaches are +1 over the same period?

Seems like the disparity between talent and FBS teams playing FCS teams screws things up a little.

Generally when I talk about coaches who are over or under achieving, I'm only talking about coaches who perform outside of the normal range and who do so consistently.

If a more talented team beats a less talented team, it doesn't show up as anything but what was expected. So if you put Army in the SEC and they went 0-8 it would show up that Army performed to expectations.
 
#77
#77
1) I don't trust 24/7, especially not anything derived from their composite rankings. As I've mentioned, calculating for attrition has generally had a very high time investment with negligible return in predictive evals.

2) What is Georgia Tech's performance to talent the past few years?

3) UT *could* lose to either or both UF or GA Tech. In fact even with a talent predicted 70% chance to beat both individually, it means there's basically a 50% chance to lose one of the two.

4) I would agree that an 8 win prediction is within normal ranges but I'd say the likelihood of 7 isn't particularly high. In fact it's probably similar to the chance of winning 11.

All this said, honestly, I'm dubious myself. Believe it or not, I'm not particularly fond of Jones or of his long term prospects. But, I come across as a defender when I'm trying to correct perspectives that are unreasonably negative and myopic. What Jones is doing on the field is typical for the majority of coaches. What he has done in recruiting is better than many could do at UT given the recent competition to the recruiting footprint of the Vols. And, there really aren't a pool of coaches who have a history of both great recruiting and significantly over performing, that are available (nor do I believe the UT admin could find them if they existed and were available). In fact, most coaches who significantly over perform do so by pretty stable and mediocre recruiting. They often recruit to a system, and have difficulty breaking through into championship contender range (in other words, no real change from where we are now, just worse talent left for the inevitable coaching change). All that said, it means a change is likely to produce no real positive effect until Bama falls back to earth post Saban and power gets reshuffled in the SEC. Granted, I'm oversimplifying and talking in generalities, but that's the landscape as I see it.

GA Tech was 50th in the team talent composite in 2016.

They beat 6 teams ranked above them in talent, the 6th, 34th, 35th, 41st, 42nd and 48th ranked teams.

They lost to the 10th, 19th, 29th and 37th ranked teams. The 37th ranked team was Pitt, which was the only team to beat the national champion, Clemson.
 
#78
#78
Yes we've had the discussion about how attrition is similar across all schools; that elite talent goes pro at about the same rate, and that wash-out is within similar ranges at all schools.

That seems crazy to me. I feel like we lose way more from attrition than most other teams
 
#79
#79
That seems crazy to me. I feel like we lose way more from attrition than most other teams

Well, I feel like other programs are more in the driver's seat with this.

For Bama, attrition means: We just got rid of someone who couldn't make the field to free up a space for another 5*.

For the Vols, attrition means: Remember that 5* we got who can really play but is kind of a head case. Yeah, he gone. But the 3* behind him is a baller, trust me.
 
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#80
#80
GA Tech was 50th in the team talent composite in 2016.

They beat 6 teams ranked above them in talent, the 6th, 34th, 35th, 41st, 42nd and 48th ranked teams.

They lost to the 10th, 19th, 29th and 37th ranked teams. The 37th ranked team was Pitt, which was the only team to beat the national champion, Clemson.


I look at the over-perfprmances like rungs on a ladder. Ga. Tech starts at the 50th rung but consistently reaches to rungs ten above them.

In their seven attempts to jump up and grab a rung above 40, they won 3. In their three attempts to grab a rung above 20, they won 1. In other words, if UT had talent in the 20-50 range, this could be a very dangerous matchup.

As Tech had a 1/3 win rate against teams in the top 20, that's not significantly different than the 70% win rate to be expected by a meeting between any two teams and picking the one with the better recruiting average.

In other words, the likelihood that UT wins this game is still about 70% based on talent. That's assuming that last year's over-perfprmances is standard for Tech.
 
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#81
#81
Well, I feel like other programs are more in the driver's seat with this.

For Bama, attrition means: We just got rid of someone who couldn't make the field to free up a space for another 5*.

For the Vols, attrition means: Remember that 5* we got who can really play but is kind of a head case. Yeah, he gone. But the 3* behind him is a baller, trust me.

The good news is that you can calculate for the effect of attrition without postulating. It takes time. I've done it several times since Dooley, and I've not found that it provides enough change to warrant the effort. Maybe this will be the year?
 
#82
#82
Honestly I can see the Vols going 11-1 if we beat the Gators @ Gainesville. Huge momentum booster, and we basically get a BYE against UMASS the following week which preps us for the home game against Georgia.

Don't be surprised if we beat LSU either, RBs usually can't sustain the success they have at the beginning of the season until the point where we play them (11/18).
 
#83
#83
Beating Florida will be crucial next year. UF has home games against A&M and LSU, two very winnable games at home. They don't really have a road challenge so I wouldn't be surprised if they were 8-0 in SEC play if they beat us.
 
#84
#84
Honestly I can see the Vols going 11-1 if we beat the Gators @ Gainesville. Huge momentum booster, and we basically get a BYE against UMASS the following week which preps us for the home game against Georgia.

Don't be surprised if we beat LSU either, RBs usually can't sustain the success they have at the beginning of the season until the point where we play them (11/18).

:no: Have we learned nothing over the last decade?

UMASS has more roster talent than either Ohio or Appy St. I don't recall either of those games feeling like a bye week last year.

Also, they should have won at South Carolina last year but caught a bad case of turnover-itis.
 
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#85
#85
Some people on here are so petty. You guys want success but continue to bash our coach day in and day out. This guy is doing a solid job for this program after what its been through. BTW he's still learning as well. You guys really think recruits don't read what gets posted on here??? Ya'll are contributors to UT's failures too believe that. Bad energy attracts Bad things you know. If you want go to Tuscaloosa and become a fan there nobody will miss you. I Support Butch Jones even though I 100 Percent disagree to firing PF.
 
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