2016 Election

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#8,152
#8,152
Franklin Pierce said:
Trump will win SC.
Cruz second.
Rubio - Yet another 3rd place finish. How long before sloppy seconds and thirds become unappealing?

(BASEBALL: UT 6 Memphis 0 - Bottom 2nd)
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Some late polling coming out is showing Rubio ahead of Cruz and 3 behind Trump. I think getting the nod from the Governor will get him past Cruz. I think trump wins but it will be close.
 
#8,153
#8,153
Vol knight said:
To change the subject, I'd like to hear everyone's opinion on the following. Could you guys come up with a pros and cons list of both Rubio and Cruz? I've narrowed who I'm going to vote for down to those 2, but I'd like to hear the folks in the politics forum's view on them.
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I early voted today, and had a tough decision to make , just like you. I voted for Cruz for a couple of reasons.

One, I think that the most important part of the upcoming election is that the new Pres will probably appoint 2 Supreme Court Justices. I trust Cruz to nominate Justices who will interpret the Constitution as it was originally written.

Two, I trust Cruz to veto spending bills of his own party. I think that a Dem elected would result in every thing being vetoed, and for that reason I would almost vote for one, except for the Supreme Court nominations. I think that we are better off when the government doesn't pass too many worthless bills.

I don't have to personally like the Pres, I don't care what he looks like, and I don't care if he can get along with anyone. Getting along is why votes are bought by the other side. Example: If you vote for this, I will give you that. Working across the aisle is why we owe 20 trillion dollars.

I think that Rubio, Kasich, or Bush would all be essentially the same. They may be nicer people than Cruz, but they will push for the TPP ( Trans Pacific Partnership ) Agreement, that is a larger version of NAFTA. They will also do nothing to slow illegal immigration. They are part of the Republican establishment that does the bidding of the Chamber of Commerce. Fox News is with them on this. Just my 2 cents and my reasoning. Take it for what it's worth.
 
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#8,155
#8,155
UTCVol said:
My cons may be pros for someone else, and vice versa. But I'll give it a shot. For reference, I supported Paul but am now going to vote for Kasich in the primary because I think he's the least objectionable candidate and has experience.

Rubio:
Pros -
Seems to be willing to reach across the aisle
Talks substantively about issues like education
Probably the most electable, and the most able to unite the party
Relatable life story
Knowledgeable on foreign policy (but he is hawkish, which I personally see as a con)
Generally very polished
Has an optimistic vision

Cons -
Inexperience - for reference, his career track is roughly similar to Obama's
Too "scripted" - see robot debate moment
Confusing history re: immigration (this is why Trump and Cruz supporters tend to not like him)
Foreign policy hawk
He's now the establishment's chosen one, with all the financial backing that entails

Cruz:
Pros -
Probably the most principled conservative in the race overall
Most willing to cut government spending
Very sharp and intelligent - probably the smartest person in the race
Good command of the issues
Dissatisfied with the status quo

Cons -
Doesn't come across as genuine
Not well-liked among his colleagues (not a single endorsement from a sitting senator)
Flip-flops on certain issues
Throws red meat to the base constantly (for example, he said he was going to "carpet bomb" ISIS)
Talks and acts like a televangelist (some people like it, but I think it's creepy and unbecoming of a president)
Very dogmatic
He's running a very slimy campaign

I would vote for Rubio before Cruz almost any day of the week if forced to choose between the two. I agree more with Cruz's politics but think he's an objectionable human being.
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That is a solid critique. I gave you a like.
 
#8,157
#8,157
1972 Grad said:
I early voted today, and had a tough decision to make , just like you. I voted for Cruz for a couple of reasons.

One, I think that the most important part of the upcoming election is that the new Pres will probably appoint 2 Supreme Court Justices. I trust Cruz to nominate Justices who will interpret the Constitution as it was originally written.

Two, I trust Cruz to veto spending bills of his own party. I think that a Dem elected would result in every thing being vetoed, and for that reason I would almost vote for one, except for the Supreme Court nominations. I think that we are better off when the government doesn't pass too many worthless bills.

I don't have to personally like the Pres, I don't care what he looks like, and I don't care if he can get along with anyone. Getting along is why votes are bought by the other side. Example: If you vote for this, I will give you that. Working across the aisle is why we owe 20 trillion dollars.

I think that Rubio, Kasich, or Bush would all be essentially the same. They may be nicer people than Cruz, but they will push for the TPP ( Trans Pacific Partnership ) Agreement, that is a larger version of NAFTA. They will also do nothing to slow illegal immigration. They are part of the Republican establishment that does the bidding of the Chamber of Commerce. Fox News is with them on this. Just my 2 cents and my reasoning. Take it for what it's worth.
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You know I hadn't considered the Supreme Court angle. Making me think sir.
 
#8,158
#8,158
UTCVol said:
My cons may be pros for someone else, and vice versa. But I'll give it a shot. For reference, I supported Paul but am now going to vote for Kasich in the primary because I think he's the least objectionable candidate and has experience.

Rubio:
Pros -
Seems to be willing to reach across the aisle
Talks substantively about issues like education
Probably the most electable, and the most able to unite the party
Relatable life story
Knowledgeable on foreign policy (but he is hawkish, which I personally see as a con)
Generally very polished
Has an optimistic vision

Cons -
Inexperience - for reference, his career track is roughly similar to Obama's
Too "scripted" - see robot debate moment
Confusing history re: immigration (this is why Trump and Cruz supporters tend to not like him)
Foreign policy hawk
He's now the establishment's chosen one, with all the financial backing that entails

Cruz:
Pros -
Probably the most principled conservative in the race overall
Most willing to cut government spending
Very sharp and intelligent - probably the smartest person in the race
Good command of the issues
Dissatisfied with the status quo

Cons -
Doesn't come across as genuine
Not well-liked among his colleagues (not a single endorsement from a sitting senator)
Flip-flops on certain issues
Throws red meat to the base constantly (for example, he said he was going to "carpet bomb" ISIS)
Talks and acts like a televangelist (some people like it, but I think it's creepy and unbecoming of a president)
Very dogmatic
He's running a very slimy campaign

I would vote for Rubio before Cruz almost any day of the week if forced to choose between the two. I agree more with Cruz's politics but think he's an objectionable human being.
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This is a fair assessment. I am voting for Rubio in the primary fwiw.
 
#8,159
#8,159
1972 Grad said:
I early voted today, and had a tough decision to make , just like you. I voted for Cruz for a couple of reasons.

One, I think that the most important part of the upcoming election is that the new Pres will probably appoint 2 Supreme Court Justices. I trust Cruz to nominate Justices who will interpret the Constitution as it was originally written.

Two, I trust Cruz to veto spending bills of his own party. I think that a Dem elected would result in every thing being vetoed, and for that reason I would almost vote for one, except for the Supreme Court nominations. I think that we are better off when the government doesn't pass too many worthless bills.

I don't have to personally like the Pres, I don't care what he looks like, and I don't care if he can get along with anyone. Getting along is why votes are bought by the other side. Example: If you vote for this, I will give you that. Working across the aisle is why we owe 20 trillion dollars.

I think that Rubio, Kasich, or Bush would all be essentially the same. They may be nicer people than Cruz, but they will push for the TPP ( Trans Pacific Partnership ) Agreement, that is a larger version of NAFTA. They will also do nothing to slow illegal immigration. They are part of the Republican establishment that does the bidding of the Chamber of Commerce. Fox News is with them on this. Just my 2 cents and my reasoning. Take it for what it's worth.
Click to expand...

There is a lot of truth in this. Gave serious thought to Cruz for these reasons.
 
#8,160
#8,160
UTCVol said:
Regardless of how I feel Cruz would be as president, we need more senators like him, Paul, and Lee. I just think he's too much of an ideologue to be successful as the head man.
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Paul and Lee I agree with.

Cruz, not so much. He's shown his true colors over the past six weeks or so and I have to say I'm not impressed. If he ran on his merits, I'd likely be more inclined to support him. But the straight up shady nonsense he's been pulling as of late really shows me his character and I don't like what I'm seeing.
 
#8,161
#8,161
Grand Vol said:
Paul and Lee I agree with.

Cruz, not so much. He's shown his true colors over the past six weeks or so and I have to say I'm not impressed. If he ran on his merits, I'd likely be more inclined to support him. But the straight up shady nonsense he's been pulling as of late really shows me his character and I don't like what I'm seeing.
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I'm talking in terms of pure ideology, but you're right about his recent antics. It's now obvious to me why he doesn't have many friends in the Senate.

Of course, in the Senate he's just one fish in a sea of many. Someone like that in the presidency could do some good things, but he wouldn't garner much goodwill doing it. He's too focused on drawing dichotomies.
 
#8,162
#8,162
Anybody know how the delegate break down works on the GOP side? I know how it works in the dem side. Just curious if it is winner take all on the GOP side of if they break them up based on percentages.
 
#8,163
#8,163
volfanhill said:
Anybody know how the delegate break down works on the GOP side? I know how it works in the dem side. Just curious if it is winner take all on the GOP side of if they break them up based on percentages.
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Depends on the state. SC and FL are winner-take-all states.
 
#8,164
#8,164
Hey, Trump is at it again - this time he's firing up the base with false stories about how the great General Pershing dealt with Muslims.

Trump Riles Up Crowd with Hoax Story About Dipping Bullets in Pig's Blood to Shoot Muslims | Mediaite
“He took 50 bullets and dipped them in pig’s blood. And he had his men load his rifles, and he lined up the 50 people, and they shot 49 of those people, and the 50th person––he said, ‘You go back to your people and you tell them what happened.’ And for 25 years, there wasn’t a problem. For 25 years there wasn’t a problem. All right? So we better start getting tough.”
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#8,165
#8,165
#8,166
#8,166
volfanhill said:
Anybody know how the delegate break down works on the GOP side? I know how it works in the dem side. Just curious if it is winner take all on the GOP side of if they break them up based on percentages.
Click to expand...

Different for each state. 538 had an article about it yesterday.
 
#8,167
#8,167
UTCVol said:
I'm talking in terms of pure ideology, but you're right about his recent antics. It's now obvious to me why he doesn't have many friends in the Senate.

Of course, in the Senate he's just one fish in a sea of many. Someone like that in the presidency could do some good things, but he wouldn't garner much goodwill doing it. He's too focused on drawing dichotomies.
Click to expand...

I think in terms of ideology, Paul is in his own league. While he tends to draw the ire of some, nobody can question his motives and his desire to genuinely do things better. At this point, I'm not sure of what Cruz's motives are since the slimy campaign as you call it has started. While at one point he might have been different and in that same league, he fell into the trap of "Washington political games" like so many before him.

I am glad Rand went out with dignity and without stooping to the smear campaign and lies Cruz is currently spewing forth. And in turn, I think it makes him a better Senator overall. And certainly a man to be respected in the future. Cruz on the other hand...
 
#8,170
#8,170
1972 Grad said:
I early voted today, and had a tough decision to make , just like you. I voted for Cruz for a couple of reasons.

One, I think that the most important part of the upcoming election is that the new Pres will probably appoint 2 Supreme Court Justices. I trust Cruz to nominate Justices who will interpret the Constitution as it was originally written.

Two, I trust Cruz to veto spending bills of his own party. I think that a Dem elected would result in every thing being vetoed, and for that reason I would almost vote for one, except for the Supreme Court nominations. I think that we are better off when the government doesn't pass too many worthless bills.

I don't have to personally like the Pres, I don't care what he looks like, and I don't care if he can get along with anyone. Getting along is why votes are bought by the other side. Example: If you vote for this, I will give you that. Working across the aisle is why we owe 20 trillion dollars.

I think that Rubio, Kasich, or Bush would all be essentially the same. They may be nicer people than Cruz, but they will push for the TPP ( Trans Pacific Partnership ) Agreement, that is a larger version of NAFTA. They will also do nothing to slow illegal immigration. They are part of the Republican establishment that does the bidding of the Chamber of Commerce. Fox News is with them on this. Just my 2 cents and my reasoning. Take it for what it's worth.
Click to expand...

"We strongly urge our colleagues in Congress to vote for trade-promotion authority," Cruz stated, along with co-author Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., in a Wall Street Journal op-ed on April 21.

On May 22, Trade Promotion Authority passed the Senate 62-37 with bipartisan support. Cruz was among the 48 Republicans and 14 Democrats who voted "yes."
 
#8,171
#8,171
carlos86 said:
"We strongly urge our colleagues in Congress to vote for trade-promotion authority," Cruz stated, along with co-author Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wis., in a Wall Street Journal op-ed on April 21.

On May 22, Trade Promotion Authority passed the Senate 62-37 with bipartisan support. Cruz was among the 48 Republicans and 14 Democrats who voted "yes."
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On June 23, Cruz wrote an op-ed in Breitbart explaining why he had changed his mind, after he voted for HR 1314 on May 22 that you mentioned. Cruz stated that he would not support the bill as written unless Boehner and McConnell would publicly say that the would let the Export Import Bank provision and the immigration provision added to the bill expire.

What that means is that after the first vote, there were provisions added to the bill that Cruz could not support. Read up on it. You told half the story. On June 24, 2015 Cruz was one of 5 Republican Senators who voted against HR 2146, which was the final bill giving the Pres the authority.
 
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