2016 Election

[n_huffhines]

By Paul Krugman

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/07/opinion/paul-krugman-trump-is-right-on-economics.html

 

[Gramps]

Here is what you are missing. Let's say I rent to a retail store (which I do...more than one). Let's say my property tax goes down $1200. Let's say I keep my rent the same, and pocket the $1200.

Let's say that another landlord will rent to my tenant for $1200 a year less because he can theoretically afford to. Will my tenant go to the expense to move, and take the chance that his business will suffer, since he has rented from me and been in the same good location for 11 years(which one tenant has), to save $100 a month?

My theory is that he won't. Maybe 20 years down the road, and that tenant is gone, it MAY make a difference, but hopefully, I still have a great location and building. This, I think, is where theory and reality aren't the same.

Good post 72.

Some people have a difficult time understanding that there are cases where business in the real world does not work the same way their economic books say they do.

 

[1972 Grad]

Good post 72.

Some people have a difficult time understanding that there are cases where business in the real world does not work the same way their economic books say they do.

Thanks. My guess is that Huff's only experience is book learnin'. Like I said earlier, I learned a lot more about business by doing over the last 43 years, than I did out of an Economics book at U.T. in 4 years. My Econ degree is just that..... a piece of paper.

 

[n_huffhines]

Good post 72.

Some people have a difficult time understanding that there are cases where business in the real world does not work the same way their economic books say they do.

Uhhh, he's talking about what i'm talking about, he just didn't understand the term i used.

Even though he doesn't know it, he's saying his prices are somewhat inelastic (due to cost of moving, etc.).

Some people have a difficult time understanding economics...

 

[1972 Grad]

Uhhh, he's talking about what i'm talking about, he just didn't understand the term i used.

Even though he doesn't know it, he's saying his prices are somewhat inelastic (due to cost of moving, etc.).

Some people have a difficult time understanding economics...

Thank you for making it crystal clear.

 

[n_huffhines]

Thank you for making it crystal clear.

I posted a youtube video and a wiki article plus my own $0.02. Can't say that i didn't try.

 

[n_huffhines]

Think of it this way:

I want to livein CA but i don't because i don't want to live there as much as the people that are living there. I consider that a fair outcome.

If the people currently living there don't want to live there as much as immigrants, and they move, i also consider that a fair outcome.

Why shouldn't the human that wants it the most, get it, if they get it peacefully?

 

[1972 Grad]

Think of it this way:

I want to livein CA but i don't because i don't want to live there as much as the people that are living there. I consider that a fair outcome.

If the people currently living there don't want to live there as much as immigrants, and they move, i also consider that a fair outcome.

Why shouldn't the human that wants it the most, get it, if they get it peacefully?

I would agree, provided they aren't breaking the law, or turning the area into such a sh!thole that property values plummet due to their presence. When property values plummet, you have tax problems like Detroit has.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

By Paul Krugman

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/09/07/opinion/paul-krugman-trump-is-right-on-economics.html

Anything Krugman says, go the opposite. That tells me all I need to know about Trump.

Krugman is a clown.

 

[Obsessed]

10 bucks says "huff" leases or rents his home and thinks he is doing his landlord a favor.

 

[1972 Grad]

10 bucks says "huff" leases or rents his home and thinks he is doing his landlord a favor.

He is, if the house is in a bad neighborhood, and he actually pays the rent.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

I do not know why New Hampshire's per capital income levels are so high. However, if it is a result of state and local tax rates, then Tennessee should have a higher income level than New Hampshire which is not the case. Tennessee's taxation is substantially lower than New Hampshire's.

NH is close proximity to the People's Democratic Republic of Massachusetts. It's a bedroom community. You can live in NH and drive to Boston to work. Why live in a socialist state when you don't have to? In Tennessee, you really don't have the same locational advantage. You gonna drive to Atlanta?

"rich" people don't get that way by being dumb with their money.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Did you geniuses take econ 101?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_incidence

I didnt take Econ 101 because I didn't have to. And I only read about half that article and even I could see how flawed the premise was. It fits your argument though, I'll give you that.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

That's because you made it thru your econ degree without understanding tax incidence and price elasticity. This knowledge should be applied to your decision making. You can succeed without it, but you do better with it.

How would he do better? Genuine curiosity. Renting property is not some theoretical argument. I betcha the man pretty well knows how much he can get from his tenants, and what his costs are. Improving on that thru some theoretical bull**** would be pretty intriguing to those of us that have not taken those courses, and I would love to hear your explanation as to how he is doing it wrong.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Here is what you are missing. Let's say I rent to a retail store (which I do...more than one). Let's say my property tax goes down $1200. Let's say I keep my rent the same, and pocket the $1200.

Let's say that another landlord will rent to my tenant for $1200 a year less because he can theoretically afford to. Will my tenant go to the expense to move, and take the chance that his business will suffer, since he has rented from me and been in the same good location for 11 years(which one tenant has), to save $100 a month?

My theory is that he won't. Maybe 20 years down the road, and that tenant is gone, it MAY make a difference, but hopefully, I still have a great location and building. This, I think, is where theory and reality aren't the same.

Yeah, it all comes down to how elastic are your prices?

What does his price elasticity have to do with anything? In his example, he said he wasn't going to drop his rent. That is inelastic. Over $1200/year, I'll betcha he could even raise his rent in some cases and the tenant wouldn't move for the reasons he cited. i don't get your propensity to argue using all theoretical models and terms when real world examples can make all of them moot.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Well, I lowered one tenant's rent 3 or 4 years ago over 20% because he was having trouble when the economy went south. I haven't tried to raise it back up, because I can afford not to, and he has been a good tenant for over 10 years. I try to live and let live. I lowered an apartment tenant by about 15% because her roommate moved out, and she was going to have to move.

My rents are very reasonable, and I fix any problems right away. I have very little turnover. I try to treat the tenants like I would want to be treated. I don't make much money on rental, but I don't have to.

I have the exact same scenario with the only rental I have. My tenant has been there 6 years, and we love having him. We treat him well and haven't raised his rent in all that time. I don't think he's leaving anytime soon either.

 

[n_huffhines]

What does his price elasticity have to do with anything? In his example, he said he wasn't going to drop his rent. That is inelastic. Over $1200/year, I'll betcha he could even raise his rent in some cases and the tenant wouldn't move for the reasons he cited. i don't get your propensity to argue using all theoretical models and terms when real world examples can make all of them moot.

Why do you ask about how price elasticity relates and then 2 sentences later you talk about price elasticity relates?

I'm so confused

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Why do you ask about how price elasticity relates and then 2 sentences later you talk about price elasticity relates?

I'm so confused

I was trying to show that it is a non sequitur. In other words, what does it have to do with the price of Bristol Meyers?

 

[n_huffhines]

I was trying to show that it is a non sequitur. In other words, what does it have to do with the price of Bristol Meyers?

I can't really answer because I still have no idea what you are asking.

Non-sequiter? How is price elasticity a false conclusion?

I said what happens theoretically

he tells me what happened in his real world example

I say theory matches what he's saying

So please help me understand

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

I can't really answer because I still have no idea what you are asking.

Non-sequiter? How is price elasticity a false conclusion?

I said what happens theoretically

he tells me what happened in his real world example

I say theory matches what he's saying

and you're now talking about God knows what?

Well maybe we are talking about the same thing. I am just not as eloquent in saying it. I just don't give a crap about theories and studies and I am more interested in actually what is going on. The academic quantification if you will means nothing to me. Regardless, I still say that your argument that renters are paying taxes is retarded. Sorry.

 

[n_huffhines]

Well maybe we are talking about the same thing. I am just not as eloquent in saying it. I just don't give a crap about theories and studies and I am more interested in actually what is going on. The academic quantification if you will means nothing to me. Regardless, I still say that your argument that renters are paying taxes is retarded. Sorry.

You say you don't give a crap about theories and studies, just what is actually going on, but they explain what is going on. This is a self-indictment. You are basically saying you don't understand how academics relate, so you just assume they are wrong. You would have been better off not writing anything.

Try this:

Government adds $100/month in property tax.

When current contracts are up, landlord increases rent by $100/month.

Who is paying the tax in this scenario. The new renters or the landlord?

 

[1972 Grad]

You say you don't give a crap about theories and studies, just what is actually going on, but they explain what is going on. This is a self-indictment. You are basically saying you don't understand how academics relate, so you just assume they are wrong. You would have been better off not writing anything.

Try this:

Government adds $100/month in property tax.

When current contracts are up, landlord increases rent by $100/month.

Who is paying the tax in this scenario. The new renters or the landlord?

Tenant may move to a cheaper place. Retail establishment may not, but apartment dweller may very well. Landlord may not, and probably will not, be able to recoup his extra $100.
He will likely eat part, if not all, the extra expense, if he can't pass it on.

 

[n_huffhines]

Tenant may move to a cheaper place. Retail establishment may not, but apartment dweller may very well. Landlord may not, and probably will not, be able to recoup his extra $100.
He will likely eat part, if not all, the extra expense, if he can't pass it on.

Right. As a whole, it's a shared burden. Individual examples vary.

I have never argued that renters pay all of it (and I think some people think I am saying that). All I've said is that they pay some of it.

 

[volfanhill]

You say you don't give a crap about theories and studies, just what is actually going on, but they explain what is going on. This is a self-indictment. You are basically saying you don't understand how academics relate, so you just assume they are wrong. You would have been better off not writing anything.

Try this:

Government adds $100/month in property tax.

When current contracts are up, landlord increases rent by $100/month.

Who is paying the tax in this scenario. The new renters or the landlord?

If no one pays the tax who does the government go after? Who writes the check for the taxes?

 

[n_huffhines]

1972, you might want to audit a few econ courses. You'd probably find them interesting, and honestly the science has come a very long way since 1972. My Dad got his Phd in 1976, and there were a lot of limitations (for example, computers make regression modeling feasible for undergrad students), not to mention new findings over the last 43 years.

Hell, I don't think public choice theory was even a thing until the 1980s. That's some of the most interesting ideas in the entire science and it's all politically related. Buchanan won the nobel prize for that (Tennessee alumnus).