2016 Election

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#2,326
#2,326
hog88 said:
You're post failed to make any argument.

Clinton's first two years were a disaster, he was on the fast track to being a one term POTUS. He was saved by Newt and the Contract with America, granted Clinton was smart enough to realize and understand the position he was in so he moderated and put a muzzle on Hillary. In short Clinton didn't set the agenda or provide leadership, he went along to stay in office and the Republicans allowed it by running Bob Dole.
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If this is your best critique, then I'd say you are confirming my position.
 
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#2,329
#2,329
This will help clarify things:

Reagan immensely grew the size of government. He had foreign policy scandals. He trained and armed the Taliban. He allied up with Iraq and of course armed them too. This is one you won't like, but I don't mind...he cut and ran after Beirut. Totally showed weakness, something Rs never hit him for and they would CRUSH Obama or Clinton for this. He punted on immigration. Etc.

Clinton > Reagan
 
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#2,330
#2,330
n_huffhines said:
This will help clarify things:

Reagan immensely grew the size of government. He had foreign policy scandals. He trained and armed the Taliban. He allied up with Iraq and of course armed them too. This is one you won't like, but I don't mind...he cut and ran after Beirut. Totally showed weakness, something Rs never hit him for and they would CRUSH Obama or Clinton for this. He punted on immigration. Etc.

Clinton > Reagan
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Ummm, he didn't arm the Taliban.
 
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#2,331
#2,331
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#2,332
#2,332
Did you guys never see this movie?

PmsIpsN.gif
 
#2,333
#2,333
n_huffhines said:
This will help clarify things:

Reagan immensely grew the size of government. He had foreign policy scandals. He trained and armed the Taliban. He allied up with Iraq and of course armed them too. This is one you won't like, but I don't mind...he cut and ran after Beirut. Totally showed weakness, something Rs never hit him for and they would CRUSH Obama or Clinton for this. He punted on immigration. Etc.

Clinton > Reagan
Click to expand...

Reagan had his issues but was a leader that brought this country together something that was sorely needed at the time. Because of his leadership we had one of the longest periods of growth in our history, was instrumental in bringing about the demise of the Soviet Union and bringing freedom to eastern Europe.

Clinton cannot claim any such accomplishments.
 
#2,334
#2,334
hog88 said:
Reagan had his issues but was a leader that brought this country together something that was sorely needed at the time. Because of his leadership we had one of the longest periods of growth in our history, was instrumental in bringing about the demise of the Soviet Union and bringing freedom to eastern Europe.

Clinton cannot claim any such accomplishments.
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Those are very vague and conceptual points. Nothing specific. First of all, if you believe Reagan's rhetoric (which I do), you don't need to do anything to make the Soviet Union fail....communism is doomed to failure no matter what.

What he did was stick his nose where he shouldn't have, and now we are deeper in debt, fighting the very people he armed, and Russia still isn't friendly with us. It's not nearly as pretty a sight when you take off the rosy shaded glasses.
 
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#2,335
#2,335
n_huffhines said:
Those are very vague and conceptual points. Nothing specific. First of all, if you believe Reagan's rhetoric (which I do), you don't need to do anything to make the Soviet Union fail....communism is doomed to failure no matter what.

What he did was stick his nose where he shouldn't have, and now we are deeper in debt, fighting the very people he armed, and Russia still isn't friendly with us. It's not nearly as pretty a sight when you take off the rosy shaded glasses.
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He made some mistakes, I'm in no way denying he didn't. However leadership is job 1 of the President and Reagan was undeniably a great leader. If Carter would have been elected for a second term there is no telling what shape we would be in.

Clinton was not a leader. Brilliant politician but not a leader, man of conviction or vision. He is a perks guy.
 
#2,336
#2,336
n_huffhines said:
Went on for 7 years during his watch.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone
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Two can play the Wiki game:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban

The Taliban (Pashto: طالبان‎ ṭālibān "students"), alternately spelled Taleban, is an Islamic fundamentalist political movement in Afghanistan. It spread throughout Afghanistan and formed a government, ruling as the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan from September 1996 until December 2001, with Kandahar as the capital. However, it gained diplomatic recognition from only three states: Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates. Mohammed Omar was the founder and served as the spiritual leader of the Taliban from its foundation in 1994 until his death in 2013. Mullah Akhtar Mansoor was elected as his replacement in 2015.
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#2,338
#2,338
Grand Vol said:
Two can play the Wiki game:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban
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He still "armed" them. He armed religious radicals that hate the west. No matter what they called themselves when he gave them the weapons, they were dangerous people to align yourself with, and we're still paying the consequences of that decision.
 
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#2,339
#2,339
hog88 said:
Reagan had his issues but was a leader that brought this country together something that was sorely needed at the time. Because of his leadership we had one of the longest periods of growth in our history, was instrumental in bringing about the demise of the Soviet Union and bringing freedom to eastern Europe.

Clinton cannot claim any such accomplishments.
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Reagan did not bring the country together as much as the events of the 1980's brought the country together. The miracle on ice, challenger explosion, assassination attempt on Reagan, and the movies of the 1980's etc. brought the country together more than any action by Reason personally, imo.
 
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#2,340
#2,340
n_huffhines said:
He still "armed" them. He armed religious radicals that hate the west. No matter what they called themselves when he gave them the weapons, they were dangerous people to align yourself with, and we're still paying the consequences of that decision.
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I agree that we should have stayed out of that mess but at the time that was what the Cold War was about, us and them messing in each others back yard. They armed the Sandinistas, we armed the Mujahideen.
 
#2,341
#2,341
mrorange211 said:
Reagan did not bring the country together as much as the events of the 1980's brought the country together. The miracle on ice, challenger explosion, assassination attempt on Reagan, and the movies of the 1980's etc. brought the country together more than any action by Reason personally, imo.
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I disagree, you don't win 49 states without overwhelming support.
 
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#2,342
#2,342
n_huffhines said:
He still "armed" them. He armed religious radicals that hate the west. No matter what they called themselves when he gave them the weapons, they were dangerous people to align yourself with, and we're still paying the consequences of that decision.
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Quite a few nations "armed" elements in Afghanistan. Enemy of my enemy is my friend sort of thing.

If you've seen Charlie Wilson's War, you saw in the end how we basically left A-stan high and dry at the end of the Cold War. That's actually a pretty accurate depiction of what happened. Can't blame the aftermath of us puling the plug on Reagan when it happened more or less on Bush 41's watch.
 
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#2,343
#2,343
n_huffhines said:
He still "armed" them. He armed religious radicals that hate the west. No matter what they called themselves when he gave them the weapons, they were dangerous people to align yourself with, and we're still paying the consequences of that decision.
Click to expand...

He also asked for schools to be built there, but that was denied by congress. Blame gets spread around
 
#2,350
#2,350
Idk what would be worse:

Trump vs Sanders
Or
Trump vs Hillary.

Too bad it won't be Trump and Biden. Those would've been the funniest debates of all time
 
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