2016 Election Thread Part Deux

#2,001
#2,001
SuperDave said:
No.. Marx never said anything about the government controlling production... it's the working class that should control it.
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Why should the working class control production? You want the least educated, least experienced, zero capital people to grow the business? People think hard work only means physical work. I guarantee you I work longer and harder the farther I have moved up in my company and I started as a line cook. I also know my boss works more the I do.
 
#2,003
#2,003
volfanhill said:
Why should the working class control production? You want the least educated, least experienced, zero capital people to grow the business? People think hard work only means physical work. I guarantee you I work longer and harder the farther I have moved up in my company and I started as a line cook. I also know my boss works more the I do.
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You are part of the working class...
 
#2,005
#2,005
SuperDave said:
free market competition produces monopolies and an alliance with states and large companies.
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Free market competition does not produce monopolies... you seem to be confused as to what FREE market COMPETITION is as well. Those two things can not go hand in hand by definition alone. A monopoly is a vacuum where there is no competition or incentive to refine and improve. What's the recurring thing that you mentioned again? Alliance with states and large companies... that's cronyism as a by product of too much government influence. I think you need to read up a little bit on what cronyism really is. It's not just the "good 'ol boy system" where you get your buddy a position with more power and money.
 
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#2,006
#2,006
R1CH said:
Free market competition does not produce monopolies... you seem to be confused as to what FREE market COMPETITION is as well. Those two things can not go hand in hand by definition alone. What's the recurring thing that you mentioned again? Alliance with states and large companies... that's cronyism as a by product of too much government influence. I think you need to read up a little bit on what cronyism really is. It's not just the "good 'ol boy system" where you get your buddy a position with more power and money.
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Even though bosses benefit from capitalism they are not in control... they are forced to engage in ruthless competition with each other to accumulate the most profit. Those who fail go bankrupt.

Competitive collection produces larger, more centralized capital.. a lot of small companies are replaced by fewer big ones.

Competition within markets generate regular use of influence by companies to make state policy.
 
#2,007
#2,007
SuperDave said:
You are part of the working class...
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Yes I am. I am also someone who receives those dividends you are upset about. I am also someone who is on a stock discount plan. I am also someone who started off making $9 an hour and now oversees $32 million dollars worth of business. Oh and side note never finished college
Did I work hard? Yes. But tons of people work hard. Am I capable of growing the business better then most? Well they think so. You have to get past this how hard people work issue.
 
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#2,008
#2,008
volfanhill said:
Yes I am. I am also someone who receives those dividends you are upset about. I am also someone who is on a stock discount plan. I am also someone who started off making $9 an hour and now oversees $32 million dollars worth of business. Oh and side note never finished college
Did I work hard? Yes. But tons of people work hard. Am I capable of growing the business better then most? Well they think so. You have to get past this how hard people work issue.
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I congratulate you on learning the rules when it comes to being successful. Keep it up. You have a great attitude.
 
#2,011
#2,011
R1CH said:
Free market competition does not produce monopolies... you seem to be confused as to what FREE market COMPETITION is as well. Those two things can not go hand in hand by definition alone. A monopoly is a vacuum where there is no competition or incentive to refine and improve. What's the recurring thing that you mentioned again? Alliance with states and large companies... that's cronyism as a by product of too much government influence. I think you need to read up a little bit on what cronyism really is. It's not just the "good 'ol boy system" where you get your buddy a position with more power and money.
Click to expand...

Free market competition should lead to better products - you try to produce a better widget than I do; and I may try to reduce my costs to sell at a better price than you do. It's not the free market that screws it up; it's the people who operate in the free market that screw it up. We see too much destructive competition rather than constructive competition; that leads to monopolistic behavior.

In a way it's like sports; you need rules and someone to officiate the game because if you don't, people will take advantage. That's where the cronyism comes in; we quite simply allow people who need to be restrained to buy congressional access - bribe the "officials". How do you fix that so that the free market can operate properly? My guess is that until you put an end to lobbying and fix campaign finance there is no cure. A bribe is a bribe and we as a nation don't have the fortitude to call it out.

The payoff is in the thousands of pages of tax code, approvals for mergers that limit competition, removed banking/investment regulation, and regulatory loopholes. Those are the payouts for the bribes. Those cannot be fixed without cleaning up legislation to prevent the hidden stuff. One item per bill - no addenda, no attachments of any kind - clean legislation written in clear, concise English. Every item tagged with the originating senator's or congressman's name - no where to hide.

Will it happen? Not likely because there's too little honesty and too little real work ethic. The free market simply cannot work in a bent society - it's not the particular "ism" of choice that fails, it's the people.
 
#2,012
#2,012
volfanhill said:
Yes I am. I am also someone who receives those dividends you are upset about. I am also someone who is on a stock discount plan. I am also someone who started off making $9 an hour and now oversees $32 million dollars worth of business. Oh and side note never finished college
Did I work hard? Yes. But tons of people work hard. Am I capable of growing the business better then most? Well they think so. You have to get past this how hard people work issue.
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It isn't about how hard you work.. it's about getting compensated for your production and giving the worker the power.
 
#2,017
#2,017
SuperDave said:
It isn't about how hard you work.. it's about getting compensated for your production and giving the worker the power.
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I agree. Workers should have more power. The government should get out of private contracts and allow the employee and the employer to negotiate freely. If the employee wants to work for less than minimum wage, they should have that right. If they want to work more than 40 hours or week, or they don't want health care benefits, then so be it.

Who is Uncle Sam to interfere?
 
#2,018
#2,018
Well interesting to see that Bernie, paid about 13.5% in taxes....and he wants to raise taxes...
I would have loved to only pay 13.5% instead of the almost 26% they got from me...
 
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#2,020
#2,020
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#2,021
#2,021
Vol8188 said:
I agree. Workers should have more power. The government should get out of private contracts and allow the employee and the employer to negotiate freely. If the employee wants to work for less than minimum wage, they should have that right. If they want to work more than 40 hours or week, or they don't want health care benefits, then so be it.

Who is Uncle Sam to interfere?
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I agree.. except the employees own the company.. not a few at the top. democracy instead of a dictatorship.
 
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