2016 Election Thread Part Deux

#4,526
#4,526
***RoadVol*** said:
Would you care to break down the living expenses one could afford on minimum wage? Ones you must have to survive.
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No. But in your question you need to identify where the person is and what you consider necessities for survival. What I consider the necessities to survive are food clothing and shelter and that varies wildly from place to place.
 
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#4,527
#4,527
***RoadVol*** said:
Can a person actually live on the current minimum wage? I mean only afford the required things to survive?
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That's probably highly dependent on where and how someone chooses to live. But can the country continue to survive in a "free trade" environment with a bloated wage structure in the face of manipulated currencies and labor rates? It looks like you can choose to be insular and protective with unequal wages or be open with competing wages, but being noncompetitive in a competitive market is a recipe for failure.
 
#4,529
#4,529
Grand Vol said:
Pretty much this. There isn't an incentive to remove oneself at this point, especially in light of working people getting benefits yanked while they still require some assistance.

It's not like financial problems are fixed overnight, or even in a month. But the government (depending on the State in question) is quick to revoke those checks when a certain number is hit. Some latitude is probably in order to assist until they get their feet back under them.

Again, the problem is with those who have zero desire to work their way off the system.
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I do not know what the numbers are, and if you relied on some kind of survey it would depend on how the question was asked. But I have to think that a substantial majority of people in that situation would, if properly incentivized, prefer to get a job that provided a chance at some upward mobility, than to remain there.

The perpetual nature of the cycle it seems to me is when you say, ok welfare recipient, you can either a) stay the same, with no work responsibilities and you just keep drifting through life, getting benefits, or b) you can get off the system and work 25, 30 hours a week, have to get from home to work and back each day, and with all that entails, and you will have an extra hundred dollars a week in your pocket.




Grand Vol said:
The incentive is the time limits before it cuts off.

Another incentive would be a vocational rehab system that could help placement into a job, depending on the abilities of the person in question.
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utvols88 said:
Its not the governments responsibility to convince people to better themselves and it's not their responsibility to make them comfortable if they choose not to. We are catering to the wrong people. The solution is to cap it and put the pressure on the people that are wrongfully using welfare. Its mean and perhaps tough lovin but it's required at this point.
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The possibility has to be there to really improve things. Ideal? No. It would surely be better if the parents of people in the poorer community instilled a better work ethic and sense of personal responsibility. No one is excusing their failure to do that.

But if you want to break the cycle, you have to start somewhere. And it just has to make sense to the people whose behavior you are trying to change. Just repeatedly telling them that they ought to have more pride in themselves, etc., does not change things. To ignite an interest in working hard, you have to make transition to that make sense to them.
 
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#4,530
#4,530
AirVol said:
50% Say Clinton Should Keep Running Even If Indicted - Rasmussen Reports™

Just proves the same idiots that elected Obama twice, are still idiots.
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LOL @ Rasmussen:

National Survey of 1,000 U.S. Likely Voters​
Conducted May 29-30, 2016
By Rasmussen Reports​

1* How likely is it that Hillary Clinton broke the law by sending and receiving e-mails containing classified information through a private e-mail server while serving as secretary of State – Very likely, somewhat likely, not very likely or not at all likely?
2* How would you rate Hillary Clinton’s handling of questions about her use of a private e-mail server while serving as secretary of State - Excellent, good, fair or poor?
3* Does the e-mail issue make you more likely or less likely to vote for Hillary Clinton? Or will it have no impact on your vote?
4* If Hillary Clinton is charged with a felony in connection with the e-mail investigation, should she immediately stop campaigning or should she continue running until a court determines her guilt or innocence?
NOTE: Margin of Sampling Error, +/-3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence
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#4,531
#4,531
lawgator1 said:
I do not know what the numbers are, and if you relied on some kind of survey it would depend on how the question was asked. But I have to think that a substantial majority of people in that situation would, if properly incentivized, prefer to get a job that provided a chance at some upward mobility, than to remain there.

The perpetual nature of the cycle it seems to me is when you say, ok welfare recipient, you can either a) stay the same, with no work responsibilities and you just keep drifting through life, getting benefits, or b) you can get off the system and work 25, 30 hours a week, have to get from home to work and back each day, and with all that entails, and you will have an extra hundred dollars a week in your pocket.









The possibility has to be there to really improve things. Ideal? No. It would surely be better if the parents of people in the poorer community instilled a better work ethic and sense of personal responsibility. No one is excusing their failure to do that.

But if you want to break the cycle, you have to start somewhere. And it just has to make sense to the people whose behavior you are trying to change. Just repeatedly telling them that they ought to have more pride in themselves, etc., does not change things. To ignite an interest in working hard, you have to make transition to that make sense to them.
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Lead a horse to water blah blah. There are tons of aveneues available to get out of poverty. Cant help them if they don't want it. Seen it way too many times and all are astonishing stories. But it isn't just luck. Its there, you just have to take it.
 
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#4,532
#4,532
hog88 said:
No. But in your question you need to identify where the person is and what you consider necessities for survival. What I consider the necessities to survive are food clothing and shelter and that varies wildly from place to place.
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Pick the cheapest place in the US. Don't forget transportation, healthcare, insurance etc that is required by law.
 
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#4,535
#4,535
***RoadVol*** said:
What? LOL! Have I said that? I just asked for a budget of what is needed to live on minimum wage and not be a leach on society.
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Nice to see I stopped you before you went there.

We've had this discussion many times before on this board. There are those who believe smart phones, tv's, Internet and cars are necessary to survive as well as food, water and housing. Are you one of those?
 
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#4,537
#4,537
tumscalcium said:
Nice to see I stopped you before you went there.

We've had this discussion many times before on this board. There are those who believe smart phones, tv's, Internet and cars are necessary to survive as well as food, water and housing. Are you one of those?
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Where do you suggest a person lives? How do they get to and from their job? Water would be the cheapest thing to drink. Cable is not required. Phone not required.
 
#4,539
#4,539
***RoadVol*** said:
Where do you suggest a person lives? How do they get to and from their job? Water would be the cheapest thing to drink. Cable is not required. Phone not required.
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Wherever they want, but I'd recommend living where you can get to and from work.

Public transportation or their own transportation. If you live in a location that doesn't offer it and you have no way to get to work that's your problem. Live/work in a different place.

If you work minimum wage jobs and don't make enough money for what you want that's your problem. Better yourself and learn a skill which makes you valuable.

If you're not where you want to be its your problem.


I want to cruise the world on my mega yacht surrounded by ridiculously hot models. However, I don't have the money for that and it's my fault.
 
#4,540
#4,540
tumscalcium said:
Wherever they want, but I'd recommend living where you can get to and from work.

Public transportation or their own transportation. If you live in a location that doesn't offer it and you have no way to get to work that's your problem. Live/work in a different place.

If you work minimum wage jobs and don't make enough money for what you want that's your problem. Better yourself and learn a skill which makes you valuable.

If you're not where you want to be its your problem.


I want to cruise the world on my mega yacht surrounded by ridiculously hot models. However, I don't have the money for that and it's my fault.
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I figured there would not be a rational response.
 
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#4,542
#4,542
McDad said:
It's easy to care with other people's money.
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It's a lot easier not to care. That's why you guys like to spew out the B.S. of "they are stealing from me". It makes you feel better to say they are stealing from you than to say you don't care. Just man up and say you don't give a **** and move on.
 
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#4,546
#4,546
utvols88 said:
Lead a horse to water blah blah. There are tons of aveneues available to get out of poverty. Cant help them if they don't want it. Seen it way too many times and all are astonishing stories. But it isn't just luck. Its there, you just have to take it.
Click to expand...


We've tried your way for 50 years. It isn't working.

If you think its just that its too easy on them to stay in poverty and be taken care of by the welfare state, and that the lack of any incentive to work is the problem, then seems to me the fix is to make the incentive be to work.

You just want to cut off benefits at X point. That doesn't work. And it would arguably just make things like crime and urban blight that much worse. Got to create meaningful paths out of poverty, and give them a reason to set out on one of those paths.
 
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#4,547
#4,547
***RoadVol*** said:
You can't give a logical answer? That's what I thought.
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Logical?

Ok, let's say a person makes $15,080 per year or $1256 per month. That is a person working minimum wage 40 hours per week with no overtime.

Rent - $450 per month doable in some places
Food - $300 per month. That's definitely not eating out and smart shopping with coupons. But doable.
Clothing - $100 per month but this is goodwill and other places
Utilities - $200 per month. No cell phone, cable TV or internet.

Boom! that leaves you $200 for savings.
 
#4,548
#4,548
lawgator1 said:
We've tried your way for 50 years. It isn't working.

If you think its just that its too easy on them to stay in poverty and be taken care of by the welfare state, and that the lack of any incentive to work is the problem, then seems to me the fix is to make the incentive be to work.

You just want to cut off benefits at X point. That doesn't work. And it would arguably just make things like crime and urban blight that much worse. Got to create meaningful paths out of poverty, and give them a reason to set out on one of those paths.
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If starvation or prison (life of crime) isn't incentive enough to work nothing is.
 
#4,549
#4,549
OK. An off the wall and in the wrong place question, but I've looked elsewhere without seeing an answer. Does anyone else have a problem with things sometimes not working here? For example, the "Like" button just goes AWOL, and no amount of refreshing or restarting the browser seems to have any effect?
 
#4,550
#4,550
AM64 said:
OK. An off the wall and in the wrong place question, but I've looked elsewhere without seeing an answer. Does anyone else have a problem with things sometimes not working here? For example, the "Like" button just goes AWOL, and no amount of refreshing or restarting the browser seems to have any effect?
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If you were trying to like LG's posts, it won't let you do it. The "Gator Fan" disclaimer on his profile prohibits anything positive being attributed to him.
 
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