2015 NBA Playoff Thread

#427
#427
n_huffhines said:
All time choke job by Griffin. 1 turnover in last minute of regulation, and 2 turnovers in last 2 minutes of OT and all 3 of them were as ugly as hell.
Click to expand...

I would have thought that a stats guy like you wouldn't put so much importance on such a small sample size.
 
#428
#428
Vercingetorix said:
I would have thought that a stats guy like you wouldn't put so much importance on such a small sample size.
Click to expand...

What does this even mean? I'm not making my evaluation of him as a player based on this 1 game, let alone those 3 plays.

I wouldn't even call the game as a whole a choke job, so I'm not sure why you think I'm putting so much "importance" on it.
 
#429
#429
I guess you and I have radically different ideas of what the phrase "all-time choke job" means, if you can accuse him of having committed one and then turn around and say that it didn't mean anything.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#430
#430
I don't understand what your point is. Without Griffin's play, they probably aren't in the game for him to choke away.

You're in over your head trying to talk about sample sizes, and maybe even hoops. After all, you are the Hawks fan who said they can't be a contender with Horford as their best player.
 
#431
#431
Shots fired! Shots fired!!!!!

Shots fired from the guy who called Marvin Williams a top 50 player in the league and lamented how much the Hawks would miss him!!
 
#433
#433
n_huffhines said:
I don't understand what your point is. Without Griffin's play, they probably aren't in the game for him to choke away.

You're in over your head trying to talk about sample sizes, and maybe even hoops. After all, you are the Hawks fan who said they can't be a contender with Horford as their best player.
Click to expand...

Well when you shoot the ball more than anyone on the team, you're likely to end up the leading scorer, and as much as Blake flops and flails like he's been sniped from Dodger Stadium, he's going to get his fair share of FT's. If the Clips didn't have Griffin, DeAndre would serve the same purpose as Griffin does.

Fact of the matter is, he was trying to do wayyyy to much with the ball on that turnover before the end of regulation. If you don't think CP3 should've had that possession, you're insane.
 
#434
#434
n_huffhines said:
I don't understand what your point is. Without Griffin's play, they probably aren't in the game for him to choke away.

You're in over your head trying to talk about sample sizes, and maybe even hoops. After all, you are the Hawks fan who said they can't be a contender with Horford as their best player.
Click to expand...

I wasn't trying to be a dick, but whatever. Nothing like the "Marvin Williams Is One Of The Fifty Best Players In The NBA" guy telling me I'm not qualified to talk about basketball.

I was genuinely curious why someone who's such a believer in the empirical evidence-based model of sports versus the narrative-based model would use such a loaded phrase as "all-time choke job" to describe what happened to Griffin down the stretch. I guess I shouldn't be surprised to find out that the answer is just that you don't understand enough about sports to know how pejorative the phrase "choke job" is.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#439
#439
Vercingetorix said:
I wasn't trying to be a dick, but whatever. Nothing like the "Marvin Williams Is One Of The Fifty Best Players In The NBA" guy telling me I'm not qualified to talk about basketball.

I was genuinely curious why someone who's such a believer in the empirical evidence-based model of sports versus the narrative-based model would use such a loaded phrase as "all-time choke job" to describe what happened to Griffin down the stretch. I guess I shouldn't be surprised to find out that the answer is just that you don't understand enough about sports to know how pejorative the phrase "choke job" is.
Click to expand...

So you wouldn't say he choked at the end? The answer to the question has nothing to do with empirical based sports models.
 
#440
#440
Summary of Marvin Williams departure:

2012 = won 61% of games

They lost Joe Johnson, Kirk Hinrich, Marvin Williams, and Tracy McGrady

They got Horford back, and they added Korver, D Stevenson (who was considered a decent player at the time), L Williams, and D Harris.

2013 = won 54% of games

On paper, it looks like they got back more than they gave up, especially when you factor in that Teague got a year older. I submit that you guys missed Williams more than you realize. The franchise is obviously OK, though. They made a bunch of good deals, so in no way can I back up my prediction that they would regret their move.

Also, Marvin Williams logged 2000 minutes this season. Whoever asked if he was still in the league should probably watch more games. He had a decent season, too, though he's getting a little long in the tooth.
 
#442
#442
Yeah, but he's not just 28, he's played 10 years and he's also played a lot of that time as an undersized PF. This is when you would expect a player to be slowing down.

If you have an amazing fundamental skill set, your playing prime can be a lot longer than your physical prime. Physical prime starts at around age 24, and it ends at 28 (this is based on research I read in my sports econ class). Physical prime ends earlier for big men, too (with the exception of super freaks like Lebron).
 
#443
#443
Lebron is exiting his physical prime now. Its just not so noticeable because he was such a superior specimen, even when his athletecism diminishes he still looks like a freak
 
#444
#444
apevol said:
Lebron is exiting his physical prime now. Its just not so noticeable because he was such a superior specimen, even when his athletecism diminishes he still looks like a freak
Click to expand...

Freak looks like Lebron? I always wondered what he looked like.
 
#445
#445
n_huffhines said:
So you wouldn't say he choked at the end? The answer to the question has nothing to do with empirical based sports models.
Click to expand...

You seem to be under the impression that saying he choked is the same thing as saying he made some bad plays. It is not.

"Choked" means that he was anti-clutch, that he shrank from the moment, maybe even that he was gutless. It's the opposite of everything that empirical sports analysis claims to believe in. It's nonsensical to say "that was an an all-time choke job" and then "but it doesn't affect my evaluation of him as a player," because if you believe that he just gagged in a clutch situation and threw a playoff game away because he's mentally weak, then of course that should be part of how you evaluate him.

I wouldn't say Griffin choked, no. I would just say he made some bad plays. When you repeatedly put the ball in the hands of a guy who's not a great ball handler down the stretch, that's the risk you're taking.
 
#447
#447
apevol said:
Lebron is exiting his physical prime now. Its just not so noticeable because he was such a superior specimen, even when his athletecism diminishes he still looks like a freak
Click to expand...

Losing that weight seems to have helped. He looks a little quicker than last year.
 
#448
#448
n_huffhines said:
Summary of Marvin Williams departure:

2012 = won 61% of games

They lost Joe Johnson, Kirk Hinrich, Marvin Williams, and Tracy McGrady

They got Horford back, and they added Korver, D Stevenson (who was considered a decent player at the time), L Williams, and D Harris.

2013 = won 54% of games

On paper, it looks like they got back more than they gave up, especially when you factor in that Teague got a year older. I submit that you guys missed Williams more than you realize. The franchise is obviously OK, though. They made a bunch of good deals, so in no way can I back up my prediction that they would regret their move.

Also, Marvin Williams logged 2000 minutes this season. Whoever asked if he was still in the league should probably watch more games. He had a decent season, too, though he's getting a little long in the tooth.
Click to expand...

Uh, not really. If the Hawks had still been saddled with Marvin's salary during the 2013 offseason, then Paul Millsap wouldn't be on the Hawks' roster today.

As I said at the time, what they got back for Marvin in the trade was irrelevant. The point was to free up his future salary so they could go find a difference maker. They did.
 
#449
#449
Vercingetorix said:
Uh, not really. If the Hawks had still been saddled with Marvin's salary during the 2013 offseason, then Paul Millsap wouldn't be on the Hawks' roster today.

As I said at the time, what they got back for Marvin in the trade was irrelevant. The point was to free up his future salary so they could go find a difference maker. They did.
Click to expand...

You can look at it like that, or you can look at it like it freed up cap space to get Lou Williams.
 
#450
#450
...or Lou Williams and DeMarre Carroll combined, if that's how you want to go, since that's how much Marvin made. Or the Korver extension.

The point is that the Hawks correctly identified Marvin as a bad contract that needed to go. They're not a 60 win team this year without dumping him off on Utah a few years ago.
 
New Posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

Advertisement



Back
Top