2013 LB recruiting

#26
#26
flowd82 said:
What is your point? I said nothing about UT had to necessarily be recruting the highest rated players by the recruiting sites. I'm talking more about offer lists. Nobody else is offering the LBs committed to UT. The current successful programs in college football do not want UT's players. If you don't have a problem with that, then that is fine. No reason to get upset because someone is questioning it.
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1. Idk how you got the idea that I was upset from that post.

2. Stars are based off offer lists, so it's the same thing.
 
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#27
#27
flowd82 said:
What is your point? I said nothing about UT had to necessarily be recruting the highest rated players by the recruiting sites. I'm talking more about offer lists. Nobody else is offering the LBs committed to UT. The current successful programs in college football do not want UT's players. If you don't have a problem with that, then that is fine. No reason to get upset because someone is questioning it.
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I look at the track record of the coaches. Then the players, Zanica was out of position last year, Vereen .1 from 4 *, cambell is really fast edge guy, Barnes only 2 years in FB, dad played in NFL. take a look at some film, you'll be happy when they don the ORANGE!
 
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#28
#28
flowd82 said:
I agree with the OP.

LB recruiting hasn't been anything to brag about the last two cycles. Dooley did a great job landing Johnson and Maggit in the 2011 cycle, but last year's LB haul was not good. This year's doesn't look much better besides Vereen. I like his game.

All UT fans keep on with the "let's trust Sal's evaluations, UT coaches know way more about talent than you, etc." arguments. Obviously UT's coaches know more about evaluating talent than VN posters do, but that doesn't change the fact UT isn't getting elite LBs. UT is missing on the elite, high-level LBs and I think Sal is realizing that and having to settle for LBs that aren't quite as talented. Does that mean UT LB commits are terrible or that I don't think Sal can evaluate talent? No, it means I think Sal and UT's defensive staff are having to settle when it comes to LB recruiting. Everybody on here was talking about how Christian Harris was an underrated LB recruit and was going to surprise some people and he hasn't done anything yet. Given, he has plenty of time to do so, I just don't see it happening.

Besides Vereen, what offers do UT LB commits have? Campbell I don't believe has any, Barnes is holding down the fort with a Southern Miss and Furman offers, and I believe Zanca has a Purdue offer. That is really it. Given, they have the rest of the summer to go to camps and gain offers. But, I don't want UT to continually pick up LB recruits that are "underrated, under the radar type guys that other major colleges don't want anything to do with.

Maybe I am just greedy, but I would like UT to sign LBs that have offers from every major college across the country by the end of their junior year/begginning of summer before their senior season, NOT LBs that have 2 mid-major offers in July that have to try to go through camp circuits to get any more offers. I know every now and then some players do get overlooked and I understand that, but for the most part, the big-time studs don't get overlooked too often.

I want UT to be a winning football team again. I want UT to have kick-ass defenses again. Nothing personal, but I don't see UT winning championships again with the caliber of LBs currently committed. Just my opinion. I think Sal is good at evaluating talent, but at this point there aren't too many elite LBs knocking down the door. UT needs to win this year and surprise some people and then I think UT can quit settling for talent and start to pick up better talent.

* I am ready for the bashing I am about to receive for this. *
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To some extent I agree with you.

There were some stats thrown around after the draft that outlined the number of five, four and three star players taken per round. I understand there is a large disparity between the population of three star players compared to five star players, but I still feel that when it comes to finding NFL talent the star system is not a fool proof method.

With that said I wonder if Dooley is focusing on finding those three star guys that grow into NFL talent. **Disclaimer: That is not meant to imply that anyone of our recruits fits that description.** Taking that approach Dooley and his staff are going to have to "hit" on a lot of those gambles (i.e. three star players) to be successful. Maybe he knows the program is not in the state to go out on compete with Bama on the recruiting trail (at least until we start winning).

Dooley strikes me as a very knowledgeable leader who takes a very macroscopic approach to leading the program. Being, at one time, the only Head Coach and Athletic Director in the country leads me to believe he is kiss assing over achiever or he is thoroughly organized, and able to communicate well. What remains to be seen is if he can communicate the big picture objectives of the program to motivate those within the program. His hiring of Sal has as much to do with Sal's "football knowledge" as it does Sal's energy and ability to motivate.

I personally don't think Dooley has had enough depth or talent on the field (i.e. Simms at QB) to win nine games in a season. I do think he's had plenty of time to create a team atmosphere and the lack of doing so has cost us a few games.

All in all while I can never get enough recruiting information I often don't get too worked up about anything during the summer. All this may be a moot point if we're off to a 6-2 start.
 
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#29
#29
You are unimpressed by offer lists in june?





I was going to offer a reasonable explanation but your ability to scout/see into the future is somewhat intriguing.

...completely batsh*t, but intriguing.
 
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#30
#30
UTMark said:
As defined by who? How many games have they played to be considered mediocre?
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UT's football team has played mediocre ball the last few years. As defined by anybody with common sense who has watched college football lately.

I am ready for UT to be a top program again, and I don't think UT is currently recruiting the LB position at a high enough level right now. If you disagree, that is fine.
 
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#31
#31
Vol8188 said:
1. Idk how you got the idea that I was upset from that post.

2. Stars are based off offer lists, so it's the same thing.
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1) I didn't mean to single you out with the upset comment. Many other posters who are commenting on this seem to be very upset that I would question our LB recruits because that means I have no faith in Sal.

2) Not really. One would think offers would have a pretty big impact on star rankings, but Rival mods continue to say that they do not calculate offer lists into their rankings.
 
#32
#32
Crew said:
You are unimpressed by offer lists in june?





I was going to offer a reasonable explanation but your ability to scout/see into the future is somewhat intriguing.

...completely batsh*t, but intriguing.
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Elaborate on this future seeing ability. I'm intrigued as well.
 
#33
#33
sjt18 said:
Did you eval them yourself so that you know this to be true? Did he tell you this? It seems counterintuitive that he would "settle" more than 7 months before NSD. Do you really, honestly believe he has said to himself "None of the best players want to play for me"? If he would EVER say that then he has the wrong job in the wrong business.
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He did not tell me this. We do not speak.

And I understand where you are coming from. I'm not saying it is impossible for a coach to find a under-the-radar type player and that player turn into a star in college. It has happened before. But for the most part, that doesn't happen. Sal isn't the end all, be all for evaluating defensive talent. There are plenty of other HCs and DCs around the country that are out there on the road evaluating football players just like Sal. I just find it a bit alarming that Sal is finding these players that no one else currently wants. I want them to turn out to be good players and help UT go bac to winning. I just don't see it right now and that is my opinion.
 
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#34
#34
Vol8188 said:
ND and FSU have been bringing in the highest rated players Rivals, ESPN, and 247 have to offer for years. Yet, their teams could not be more mediocre.

We're going to avoid mediocrity by trusting our own evaluations, not chasing the stars.
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They're mediocre due to coaching, not talent.
 
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#35
#35
Hate to say it, but UT football will never be great again. Too much against them and no way to make a full revovery.
 
#36
#36
It's laughable that the same people that are sooooooo up in arms defending some of these commitments are the same people that would be absolutely making a mess of their pants if we pulled a Clowney or RN type player.
 
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#37
#37
flowd82 said:
UT's football team has played mediocre ball the last few years. As defined by anybody with common sense who has watched college football lately.

I am ready for UT to be a top program again, and I don't think UT is currently recruiting the LB position at a high enough level right now. If you disagree, that is fine.
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No doubt we've been average at best on the field lately and no, I'm not happy at all. However, unless our recruits have been to plenty of camps and run the circuit and then not been offered by the big schools, I would be concerned. I do not believe that to be the case.

It also seems that quite a few of our recruits over the past couple of years start getting recruited by other big schools after we offer / they commit. I think that's a sign that other coaches respect our evaluations.
 
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#38
#38
flowd82 said:
Elaborate on this future seeing ability. I'm intrigued as well.
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The intrigue has passed.

...you agree with the OP that we are not getting the elite level lb's. And you are ready for the team to be good again.

Either you are under the impression that we just came off a BCS appearance or don't get that just because "you want it" dosen't mean that you get it.


This isn't the 90's anymore.
 
#39
#39
flowd82 said:
I agree with the OP.

LB recruiting hasn't been anything to brag about the last two cycles. Dooley did a great job landing Johnson and Maggit in the 2011 cycle, but last year's LB haul was not good. This year's doesn't look much better besides Vereen. I like his game.
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You make some valid points.

But our LB haul would have been damn good if Santos and Peters had not screwed us and switched at the last minute.
 
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#45
#45
Crew said:
The intrigue has passed.

...you agree with the OP that we are not getting the elite level lb's. And you are ready for the team to be good again.

Either you are under the impression that we just came off a BCS appearance or don't get that just because "you want it" dosen't mean that you get it.


This isn't the 90's anymore.
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We are a top ten program traditionally. I'll level with you here and agree that today's kids don't care.

But we have more financial backing than the majority of the other 119 universities, out of this world facilities, we play in the SEC, have a great fan base and a pretty decent college town atmosphere, and we have a foundation of pretty good talent (Bray, Hunter, Rogers, Maggitt). So what don't we have that would lure top talent here? The answer isn't hard to think of. Why is it that a mediocre Clemson staff can pull elite talent in every year but go back to back seasons not winning more than seven games? How did Saban build Bama and LSU up so quickly after horrible seasons? It's the type of coach that attracts elite talent to schools now. Not the facilities. Not the tradition. And to an extent not even the record from the previous season.
 
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#46
#46
UTCVol said:
I don't think it's unreasonable for someone to question the LB recruiting.
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...it's perfectly reasonable to do it.

You can wonder if the players are good enough. But to moan about not getting our pick of the elite talent considering the state of the program in recent years is delusional.
 
#47
#47
PA Vol said:
It's laughable that the same people that are sooooooo up in arms defending some of these commitments are the same people that would be absolutely making a mess of their pants if we pulled a Clowney or RN type player.
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That really makes no sense. So people cant be excited about a great player because they dont believe in stars? Would our coaches not be evaluating that player also?
 
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#48
#48
UTFanForLife said:
That really makes no sense. So people cant be excited about a great player because they dont believe in stars? Would our coaches not be evaluating that player also?
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The same people preaching that stars don't matter would be beyond ecstatic if we landed a five star player. It's unbelievably hypocritical.
 
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#49
#49
Vereen and Zanca are beast and Campbell has great size to trouble the throw over the middle. I dont know much on Barnes but these guys are very talented and will work well together IMO.
 
#50
#50
PA Vol said:
We are a top ten program traditionally. I'll level with you here and agree that today's kids don't care.

But we have more financial backing than the majority of the other 119 universities, out of this world facilities, we play in the SEC, have a great fan base and a pretty decent college town atmosphere, and we have a foundation of pretty good talent (Bray, Hunter, Rogers, Maggitt). So what don't we have that would lure top talent here? The answer isn't hard to think of. Why is it that a mediocre Clemson staff can pull elite talent in every year but go back to back seasons not winning more than seven games? How did Saban build Bama and LSU up so quickly after horrible seasons? It's the type of coach that attracts elite talent to schools now. Not the facilities. Not the tradition. And to an extent not even the record from the previous season.
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I can agree with this. Dooley (classy guy) doesn't come across as the greatest leader in the world. And he has to do better this year.

Saban is a monotone troll, but he gets kids to buy in and he can actually coach it.

I fully expect Dooley to be out on his ass for someone who can really move the needle if he can't make any ground up this year.

On Clemson... hey, you got me. I don't know what the hell they're doing. Apparently, Dabo can talk a gang of ...ish.

I'm not sold on his coaching though.
 
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