'18 GA QB Emory Jones (Ohio State commit)

#401
#401
So are you saying we aren't feeling as bad as we should about this? Insufficient grief? I don't see the value that would add.
 
#402
#402
junder13 said:
Three months ago, we were considered a favorite for two separate 2018 quarterbacks in borderstate Georgia that both appear to be five-star players. The question we fans were asking was which of the two we will get. TL might become a beginning-to-end #1 rated player in the entire class. I've already stated in his thread that I view him as a once a generation player at his position (and I don't care how often ppl throw that statement around, I haven't said that about another QB we are pursuing this century).

EJ may become the #1 rated DT QB, especially given recent struggles by the current #1 rated 2018 dual threat QB from Pennsylvania.

Despite reasonable expectations/hopes of landing one of the two above, recent comments present a "oh, well, we'll find another great option" and "time to move on" kind of mindset. If both TL and EJ commit elsewhere (UGA and OSU, it would appear), don't make it sound like we can just turn over another rock and get a similar outcome. You do not replace the #1 player in the nation or the #1 DT QB with the next guy on the list and it not be a considerable step down. That is not to say that a lower rated QB prospect will not or cannot have a better future (RGIII, Manziel, etc.), but a lower rated QB is less likely to have as much of an impact on peer recruiting, which is becoming increasingly important in the modern social media-focused teenage world.

Considering this is the recruiting forum, I think it's okay for fans to express their extreme disappoint if (when) we do not land either TL or EJ by summer's end. Hopefully EJ's upcoming visit to Knoxville turns the tide and its a moot point. But, as of now, it appears that we will be searching again for another QB after having strong early ties to three five-star destined QBs we once led on only to see slip away (Hunter Johnson, TL, EJ) -- two of which, I might add, grew up in families that were apparently avid UT fans and expressed early fanship themselves (HJ and TL). Perhaps the families should revoke their fan card, but that's probably just bitterness coming out now and not worth discussing.

One more thing....expressing disappointment in how the recruiting of one or a few players turns out does not mean that you view the recruiting class will be terrible and that the sky is falling. A fan can be both optimistic and realistic. Waving off the significance of elite players who are high on us at one time and sign elsewhere is also not a sign of how great a fan you are. It's just blind homerism or subjectivism. And its obnoxious for those who like open and level-headed discussion.
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Great post :hi:
 
#403
#403
Nashvegas31 said:
Dream school comments always bothered me about Ohio st but TN has last visit and has longest relationship as well as distance. I wouldn't count us out yet. It wouldn't surprise me to see Butch pull out the no 2017 QB card if he needs to if that's what it takes. No 2017 QB worth taking at this point unless we got Sears who probably stays out west.
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We will get the last visit before his supposed commitment decision. But, I guarantee it will not be his last visit to a college campus and no matter what he announces when he does commit, it will not be the final word on Emory Jones.

If he announces Tennessee later this month, I will be happy. If he announces Ohio State, I will be disappointed. But, in reality, what he announces at the end of this month is about as meaningless as being rated #1 in a preseason poll. If they awarded rings for being #1 preseason, then that would mean something. But, alas, they do not.
 
#405
#405
Dobbs4Heisman has assured me that we land one of Lawrence or Jones, and says there is no chance we don't, so I feel confident here.
 
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#406
#406
Buckeyes WR coach ambidextering it. :)
 

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#408
#408
Accumulating all that talent at a position where a rotation is counter productive could end up having the opposite effect. I think back to when Spurrier rep with QB was its highest (as a result of Shane Matthews and, especially Danny Wuerffel) and he signed several top-rated QBs in the country year-after-year for like 3 or 4 straight seasons. I remember as a kid thinking they'd be unbeatable as a result, ha. He then proceeded to play musical chairs with a bunch of talented but inconsistent QBs for the next several years (Doug Johnson, Jessie Palmer, Rex Grossman, Brock Berlin) and only Grossman in 2001 had similar success to either Matthews or Wuerffel (Matthews was second team All-American his junior year, Grossman was the Heisman runner-up in 2001, Wuerffel won the Heisman in UF's championship 1996 season). Likewise, Spurrier's results on the field declined from 1999-2001, despite having a strong defense. Hoke as DC from 1999-2001 may not have been as strong as Stoops from 1996-1998, but defense was not the problem for UF in 1999 and 2000 (7 combined losses those two years).

Fast forward to last year at OSU. Meyer's prowess to develop a QB was probably at its highest (Chris Leak, Tim Tebow, and then a THIRD string QB wins the natty under his watch...goodness!). Anyone who watched OSU last year would know that the QB position was most likely the weakest link on the team, despite having two QBs on the roster who were preseason hyped for the Heisman and given a first round draft grade. A third highly regarded QB moved to WR and he previously had started for 2.5 seasons at QB.

Then take the recent A&M example. Sumlin has done an incredible job developing lower rated QBs that fit his system and put up video game stats, and, of course, there was Manziel. He then proceeds to sign at least two (maybe even three?) 5-star QBs in the next couple classes. The 2015 season then has a QB battle and neither blue chip play up to their ranking or the bar set by previous Sumlin-coached QBs.

The point? Perhaps signing highly rated QBs every year can be detrimental to those QBs on the roster and to the offense as a whole. Perhaps a lower rated QB who fits a system and may be more inclined to play a support role is better every other season. This might sound crazy to essentially take a dive every other recruiting season at the QB position but there's plenty of examples in the modern football era of how stacking a roster with mega recruits at the QB position each and every year can have the opposite effect on future on-the-field results. I don't think any other position on the field would have this kind of paradoxical outcome.

Skipping in 2017 on the QB position would not be disastrous for UT. However, if JG were to win the 2017 QB race as a RS freshmen, than both upperclassmen QBs are likely to transfer, which would then be disastrous for our QB depth. This possibility would be the only reason signing a QB in 2017 might be necessary. I don't think JG wins the QB race in 2017 anyway, so I say we skip. That's pure speculation, however. Irrespective, we should sign a QB in 2018 and we need a QB that can lead our team for 2-3 years by at least 2019, if we don't find that caliber of QB in 2018. It appears that TL has trended away from us entirely, and EJ still has a visit coming up but has named OSU his leader. EJ would be wise to consider the depth chart that's developing at his position at OSU, however. It's not a matter of beating out competition in such a scenario. It's about having too much talent for a coach to settle on one single guy and then bouncing back-and-forth between several talented options only to have them all playing while looking over their shoulder at the sideline (figuratively) instead of focusing on playing the game.
 
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#410
#410
You're overthinking it. UT wants to sign as many elite QBs as often as they can. Sure, some lower ranked guys can stay and learn the system, but the higher rated guys tend to perform better in college.
 
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#411
#411
junder13 said:
Three months ago, we were considered a favorite for two separate 2018 quarterbacks in borderstate Georgia that both appear to be five-star players. The question we fans were asking was which of the two we will get. TL might become a beginning-to-end #1 rated player in the entire class. I've already stated in his thread that I view him as a once a generation player at his position (and I don't care how often ppl throw that statement around, I haven't said that about another QB we are pursuing this century).

EJ may become the #1 rated DT QB, especially given recent struggles by the current #1 rated 2018 dual threat QB from Pennsylvania.

Despite reasonable expectations/hopes of landing one of the two above, recent comments present a "oh, well, we'll find another great option" and "time to move on" kind of mindset. If both TL and EJ commit elsewhere (UGA and OSU, it would appear), don't make it sound like we can just turn over another rock and get a similar outcome. You do not replace the #1 player in the nation or the #1 DT QB with the next guy on the list and it not be a considerable step down. That is not to say that a lower rated QB prospect will not or cannot have a better future (RGIII, Manziel, etc.), but a lower rated QB is less likely to have as much of an impact on peer recruiting, which is becoming increasingly important in the modern social media-focused teenage world.

Considering this is the recruiting forum, I think it's okay for fans to express their extreme disappoint if (when) we do not land either TL or EJ by summer's end. Hopefully EJ's upcoming visit to Knoxville turns the tide and its a moot point. But, as of now, it appears that we will be searching again for another QB after having strong early ties to three five-star destined QBs we once led on only to see slip away (Hunter Johnson, TL, EJ) -- two of which, I might add, grew up in families that were apparently avid UT fans and expressed early fanship themselves (HJ and TL). Perhaps the families should revoke their fan card, but that's probably just bitterness coming out now and not worth discussing.

One more thing....expressing disappointment in how the recruiting of one or a few players turns out does not mean that you view the recruiting class will be terrible and that the sky is falling. A fan can be both optimistic and realistic. Waving off the significance of elite players who are high on us at one time and sign elsewhere is also not a sign of how great a fan you are. It's just blind homerism or subjectivism. And its obnoxious for those who like open and level-headed discussion.
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Is it ok to drone on and on about your recruiting displeasure before either guy commits?
 
#412
#412
I am just saying that perhaps it's not in a football program's best interest to try and sign a nationally recognized, top-ranked player at the QB position every year. Fulmer often waited 3 or so years to sign a major QB (think about the separation in years with Manning, Martin, Clausen, Ainge, Crompton). I think Fulmer might have sought too much separation with his marque QB signatures but I also think vying for one every season can have detrimental results too (I noted three examples above: UF late 90s, OSU and A&M last year...you could add USCw at the end of Carroll's regime and early into Kiffin's short era). This is not to say that the rankings don't matter. I think they more often than not do matter, and are usually pretty accurate (Luck, Winston, Rosen, etc.). I want us to sign marquee QBs. Just not every year. We skip in 2017 and hopefully get a game changer in 2018. Long way to go before NSD 2018 so I'm not concerned but it would appear that TL and EJ (whom we seemed to lead for at separate times only months ago) may not be options after the summer, unless they decommit later (which is always a possibility in recruiting but should never relied upon in hunting for a marquee difference maker at QB).
 
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#413
#413
secking said:
Here is Alex Greitman's explanation of his CB pick.

"Bill K. is at camp and is saying he is hearing Jones may have given an indication to the staff he is in....I had put my Crystal Ball in last night after hearing some confident things coming from people in the know.
I won't be shocked if he takes the Clemson and Tenn. visits, but I think OSU is looking good"

Ok, now with that said, the reason UGA has stayed in his top 3 is bc momma wants her boy close to home. It's two years away, no way she lets him go that far away (unless she is going too). In the end, still think he ends up at Tn, perhaps CU, but probably Tn.
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I have NO IDEA what Jones will do, but Gleitman is a completely delusional homer. Dude lost all credibility with me when he was promising Van Jefferson would be a Buckeye.
 
#414
#414
junder13 said:
I am just saying that perhaps it's not in a football program's best interest to try and sign a nationally recognized, top-ranked player at the QB position every year. Fulmer often waited 3 or so years to sign a major QB (think about the separation in years with Manning, Martin, Clausen, Ainge, Crompton). I think Fulmer might have sought too much separation with his marque QB signatures but I also think vying for one every season can have detrimental results too (I noted three examples above: UF late 90s, OSU and A&M last year...you could add USCw at the end of Carroll's regime and early into Kiffin's short era). This is not to say that the rankings don't matter. I think they more often than not do matter, and are usually pretty accurate (Luck, Winston, Rosen, etc.). I want us to sign marquee QBs. Just not every year. We skip in 2017 and hopefully get a game changer in 2018. Long way to go before NSD 2018 so I'm not concerned but it would appear that TL and EJ (whom we seemed to lead for at separate times only months ago) may not be options after the summer, unless they decommit later (which is always a possibility in recruiting but should never relied upon in hunting for a marquee difference maker at QB).
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I kind of get your point. Having multiple 5* QBs on the roster sounds good, but the reality is only one is going to start; leaving the other two sitting the bench. The QB position is not like other positions where you can rotate players in. Eventually, the non starters will likely transfer out, leaving you in a situation where you would have been had you only signed the one that ended up starting. The advantage of having multiple 5* though, is it creates competition long enough...before they transfer out...to hopefully end up with the best starter for three or four years.
 
#415
#415
secking said:
Here is Alex Greitman's explanation of his CB pick.

"Bill K. is at camp and is saying he is hearing Jones may have given an indication to the staff he is in....I had put my Crystal Ball in last night after hearing some confident things coming from people in the know.
I won't be shocked if he takes the Clemson and Tenn. visits, but I think OSU is looking good"

Ok, now with that said, the reason UGA has stayed in his top 3 is bc momma wants her boy close to home. It's two years away, no way she lets him go that far away (unless she is going too). In the end, still think he ends up at Tn, perhaps CU, but probably Tn.
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Ohio State hiring parents again?
 
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#418
#418
LouderVol said:
Ohio State hiring parents again?
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Happens more often than people think. Easier to hire a parent or a coach to secure a recruits signature than to risk NCAA issues paying the recruit. "Indoor practice facility security officer". I think it pays 88,000 per year. A parent can handle the job.
 
#419
#419
CrunchingTheVolz said:
Happens more often than people think. Easier to hire a parent or a coach to secure a recruits signature than to risk NCAA issues paying the recruit. "Indoor practice facility security officer". I think it pays 88,000 per year. A parent can handle the job.
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i know it happens but funny to see their reporter imply that is what was going on. Or am I the only one to infer that from the quote?
 
#420
#420
LouderVol said:
i know it happens but funny to see their reporter imply that is what was going on. Or am I the only one to infer that from the quote?
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That could very well be what the quote was getting at.

I'm sure there are also situations where parents have the financial means to relocate if they desire to be closer to their child for the 4-5 years they are in college is on the table.
 
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#423
#423
delfonic said:
Fulmer didn't need to sign a top end QB every year because Coach Cut made good QBs out of whoever was here.
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No, Cutcliffe took really good QB's and made them better. His starting QB's were never development projects. Kelly, Shuler, Manning and Martin were all big time talents coming in.
 
#424
#424
Go Fight Win said:
How often would you say it happens?
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Impossible to say for sure. UT did it with Blair's OL Juco coach. OSU has done it. Ole Miss, Vandy, Arkansas, Louisville to name a few. All situations I've read where recruits family or HS coaches now "work" in some capacity for the school. Of course how long that job is maintained after the papers are signed, who knows.
 
#425
#425
LouderVol said:
Ohio State hiring parents again?
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Since I saw his name come up yesterday at a camp, what relation is Patrick Abernathy to Micah Abernathy?

As far as parents or even siblings getting a job, as long as they are qualified for the job and not getting double the salary that the job is worth, it is what everyone does. Getting a good job normally involves networking, this would be no different. I mean, the job can't come with a house, double or tripe the salary and it probably shouldn't be AT the school but a local job, meh, who cares?

Do you think Buck would have hired Josh Malone's mom had he not known Josh? That is probably how they met, and obviously Buck thought his mom was qualified to be on his staff. Nothing wrong with that.
 
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