'17' TN ATH Tee Higgins (Clemson commit)

#6,676
#6,676
BowlBrother85 said:
I will argue that any defense that allows 41 points to NC State while allowing 135 yards on the ground and 264 through the air is not that good... and that same defense will be minus 7 draft picks this year. You will probably argue anything just for the hell of it. You have gone to some incredible lengths in this thread to build a case for Clemson and Ohio St which is just weird.
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Stats are weird? Anything other than blind homerism and emotional debates are contrary around here. I apologize for my unwillingness to admit that OSU and Clemson wouldn't be in the top 3-5 if they competed in the SEC.
 
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#6,678
#6,678
bowlinggreenvol said:
Their defense was top 10 in the country and some geniuses decided to argue it was because they played weak teams. Teams who's offensives were pretty damn good. We can go round and round with this all day. I'll say the offenses they played were good so no wonder they gave up some points. You and others will argue the offenses are good because the defenses are bad. I could argue the offenses in the SEC are terrible that's why the defenses look good. You'll argue the offenses are terrible because the defenses are so good. It's a circle that never ends.
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You don't really know what I would argue or not but you most certainly would argue anything with anyone. Also, you used to be such a good poster but all I ever seem to see is you trying to put UT in a negative light. Don't really get it except I am beginning to think you just like to rustle the jimmies.
 
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#6,679
#6,679
bowlinggreenvol said:
Stats are weird? Anything other than blind homerism and emotional debates are contrary around here. I apologize for my unwillingness to admit that OSU and Clemson wouldn't be in the top 3-5 if they competed in the SEC.
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OSU and Clemson would be very competitive in the SEC.
 
#6,681
#6,681
Dragon18 said:
OSU and Clemson would be very competitive in the SEC.
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Of course they would be but I do think it would have been more difficult than the path they have both followed the last few years. I don't think anyone is saying they would stink. It is that some posters think they would be just as dominate as they have been. I don't see it.
 
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#6,683
#6,683
Dragon18 said:
OSU and Clemson would be very competitive in the SEC.
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Ohio State would compete for the title in most years. Clemson would compete once in a while. There are no 4 or 5 game gauntlets in the ACC such as what Tennessee will run in late September and October. That hides their warts. I still say there was nothing special about Clemson's defense last year and I still think they're going down in week 1 at Auburn. We will see.

Also worth noting that South Carolina had a 5 game winning streak over Clemson from 2009-2013...and most of those games were not close. Some of you guys are simply getting carried away with last season (I think Tee Higgins is as well). They are not a great program by any means.
 
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#6,684
#6,684
JacketVol said:
Of course they would be but I do think it would have been more difficult than the path they have both followed the last few years. I don't think anyone is saying they would stink. It is that some posters think they would be just as dominate as they have been. I don't see it.
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With Bama,LSU,UGA, UF and a revived UT program the days of anybody dominating are gone. They certainly wouldn't dominate. But they would certainly be part of the upper tier of this conference.
 
#6,685
#6,685
JacketVol said:
Of course they would be but I do think it would have been more difficult than the path they have both followed the last few years. I don't think anyone is saying they would stink. It is that some posters think they would be just as dominate as they have been. I don't see it.
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If you read my posts rather than getting your jimmies rustled, as you said, you'll see I explicitly said their path to a title is easier in the ACC. No arguing that. This whole argument started way back when one of the ladies said flip our schedules last year and they would be no better than us. I whole heartedly disagreed on just that point. Clemson doesn't go from being undefeated to 4 losses playing our schedule. Sure they lose to Bama; I'm not sure they lose another one though. I see Clemson being a UGA on a yearly basis if they were in the SEC; probably average 9-10 wins and every 4-5 years be a team who should be in contention. I don't think they go 12-0/11-1 every year, nor have I said that once.
 
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#6,686
#6,686
BowlBrother85 said:
I will argue that any defense that allows 41 points to NC State while allowing 135 yards on the ground and 264 through the air is not that good... and that same defense will be minus 7 draft picks this year. You will probably argue anything just for the hell of it. You have gone to some incredible lengths in this thread to build a case for Clemson and Ohio St which is just weird.
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just out of curiosity, how many awful defenses have 7 players drafted in a year?
 
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#6,687
#6,687
Dragon18 said:
With Bama,LSU,UGA, UF and a revived UT program the days of anybody dominating are gone. They certainly wouldn't dominate. But they would certainly be part of the upper tier of this conference.
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If you don't mind giving consideration to a different observation, I would like to hear your thoughts.
No matter what conference Clemson could contend in at this exact moment, would they have reached this point if not starting in the ACC?

I witnessed SC rise under Spurrier and Vandy under Franklin. The thing is, even if you can reach that level while the east is down (or you play in the ACC) how long would it truly last once the other teams regained their footing?
And recruits saw the facilities etc,and realized they didn't have 9 gimmie games a year.. once again like the ACC.

Personally, I believe that Clemson could come in and compete in the SEC this year. As a couple of years passed?
USCE part deux imo.
 
#6,688
#6,688
Ohio State would compete well in the SEC because they largely dominate recruiting in the Midwest, where they don't have a ton of competition for talent. And they've not had much competition, at all, in the /weak/ conference formerly known as the Big 10. Whereas we and most SEC teams are involved in a cage fight every year for prospects. OSU is like FSU was for years when it dominated a very weak ACC and thus was in the title picture most years. OSU would not be in the title picture most years if it was in the SEC.
 
#6,689
#6,689
chargervol said:
If you don't mind giving consideration to a different observation, I would like to hear your thoughts.
No matter what conference Clemson could contend in at this exact moment, would they have reached this point if not starting in the ACC?

I witnessed SC rise under Spurrier and Vandy under Franklin. The thing is, even if you can reach that level while the east is down (or you play in the ACC) how long would it truly last once the other teams regained their footing?
And recruits saw the facilities etc,and realized they didn't have 9 gimmie games a year.. once again like the ACC.

Personally, I believe that Clemson could come in and compete in the SEC this year. As a couple of years passed?
USCE part deux imo.
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Fair points and most programs rise and fall in cycles. Clemson has been on the rise for several years and have broken through to the level of some elite teams. Can they sustain it? I doubt it. But they are poised to be good for the foreseeable future (one or rwo years lol). They would definitely play more tough games in the SEC but they are actually a pretty good team/program right now.
 
#6,690
#6,690
BowlBrother85 said:
Ohio State would compete for the title in most years. Clemson would compete once in a while. There are no 4 or 5 game gauntlets in the ACC such as what Tennessee will run in late September and October. That hides their warts. I still say there was nothing special about Clemson's defense last year and I still think they're going down in week 1 at Auburn. We will see.

Also worth noting that South Carolina had a 5 game winning streak over Clemson from 2009-2013...and most of those games were not close. Some of you guys are simply getting carried away with last season (I think Tee Higgins is as well). They are not a great program by any means.
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OK, when you bring recruits, specifically Tee into the discussion, this goes towards a specific opinion I have on current state of affairs. You say that these kids gravitate towards the "flavor of the month", and I agree. Hindsight is 20/20, and I really really wish that UT had formulated a transition plan out of the Fulmer years (ie FSU from Bowden years) rather than what appeared to be a reactionary, seat of the pants non-plan. I was on the field before the Alabama game in 2008, and overheard some AD staff discussing the amount of Crimson in the stands, and that this was unacceptable, and a change had to be made.
My biggest issue currently with UT is that Butch just doesn't "feel" like a "Tennessee Man" to me. I've seen him too many times come across as disingenuous. An example would be asking his handler to sign a piece of memorabilia for a long time member of the athletic department, and Butch refusing, claiming not to have time. In contrast, the times I've interacted with Dabo, he's almost unbelievably nice. An example was during the "pizza party" playoff selection show, we bumped into Dabo as his handler was rushing him from the field up to the press box for a live interview on ESPN. Our 4 year old daughter asked him if he'd take a picture with her. His handler told him he was to be live on air in 3 minutes, his response "Honey I've got plenty of time for you!" and squated down and grinned from ear to ear for what is currently one of her favorite pictures. I think this is part of what makes him a great recruiter, the Mamas probably melt and trust him immediately.
On the "Flavor of the Month" angle, look at the past 5 years that these kids have been tuned in to who's hot. Clemson is 56-10 in the past 5 years, and 11-10 vs ranked opponents. Tennessee is 31-31, and 3-23 vs ranked opponents. Tennessee is improving, but it's a process, Clemson won ten or more games for 4 years before last year's run, and built through recruiting. The roster at UT points to this year being a possible year to make a run, but I don't know about the playoffs. I believe that they can get to Atlanta, and a win there should put them in(with <2 losses), but that's an awfully tall order. That will pay off with recruits over a couple of years, but this season's results are for the current Sophomores and Juniors, it takes building relationships.
A couple of things that I also hope work in Tennessee's favor, are the coaching changes at UGA and USCe. I believe that Kirby is an experiment and parting with Richt was a mistake, and as a Clemson fan, I couldn't have hand picked a better choice for the cocks, other than maybe Bama's Offensive Coordinator. Hopefully these two mistakes will clear the path a little bit for UT to be in Atlanta more often, and reap the benefits.
Lastly, and I know this was a long winded post, but College Football Ebbs and Flows. It's like a soap opera for us dudes, complete with rumors, scandals, and drama. I am enjoying the heck out of Clemson's current run, and the down years(3-8 in 98 while y'all were winning the National Championship) just make it sweeter. The down years suck, but I know we'll be there again, and I'll just outlast them again.
 
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#6,691
#6,691
bowlinggreenvol said:
If you read my posts rather than getting your jimmies rustled, as you said, you'll see I explicitly said their path to a title is easier in the ACC. No arguing that. This whole argument started way back when one of the ladies said flip our schedules last year and they would be no better than us. I whole heartedly disagreed on just that point. Clemson doesn't go from being undefeated to 4 losses playing our schedule. Sure they lose to Bama; I'm not sure they lose another one though. I see Clemson being a UGA on a yearly basis if they were in the SEC; probably average 9-10 wins and every 4-5 years be a team who should be in contention. I don't think they go 12-0/11-1 every year, nor have I said that once.
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If you read my post then you would realize my jimmies are not rustled. However, I do think you would like to join the JRL. Jimmies rustlin league. :eek:lol:
 
#6,692
#6,692
Dragon18 said:
Fair points and most programs rise and fall in cycles. Clemson has been on the rise for several years and have broken through to the level of some elite teams. Can they sustain it? I doubt it. But they are poised to be good for the foreseeable future (one or rwo years lol). They would definitely play more tough games in the SEC but they are actually a pretty good team/program right now.
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I believe they will sustain.. in the ACC.
The discussion was, what would they do in the SEC.

My guess, about 2 good years before - South Carolina.
 
#6,694
#6,694
armchair said:
Ohio State would compete well in the SEC because they largely dominate recruiting in the Midwest, where they don't have a ton of competition for talent. And they've not had much competition, at all, in the /weak/ conference formerly known as the Big 10. Whereas we and most SEC teams are involved in a cage fight every year for prospects. OSU is like FSU was for years when it dominated a very weak ACC and thus was in the title picture most years. OSU would not be in the title picture most years if it was in the SEC.
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Location where they are right now and the way they're recruiting right now they absolutely would. They've recruited top 2-3 classes every year Urban has been there that's more than enough to be in the title hunt every year. You said it, they dominate the Midwest and northeast plus poach 3-5 every year from the Southeast; kids the SEC teams really want. Them moving to the SEC wouldn't suddenly dilute their roster or their pool of talent to draw from.
 
#6,695
#6,695
bowlinggreenvol said:
If you read my posts rather than getting your jimmies rustled, as you said, you'll see I explicitly said their path to a title is easier in the ACC. No arguing that. This whole argument started way back when one of the ladies said flip our schedules last year and they would be no better than us. I whole heartedly disagreed on just that point. Clemson doesn't go from being undefeated to 4 losses playing our schedule. Sure they lose to Bama; I'm not sure they lose another one though. I see Clemson being a UGA on a yearly basis if they were in the SEC; probably average 9-10 wins and every 4-5 years be a team who should be in contention. I don't think they go 12-0/11-1 every year, nor have I said that once.
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In the last ten years Clemson has won TWO including last year ACC championships. TWO! Let that sink in.

To get to their third......you have to go back 25 years.

Flavor of the month.
 
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#6,700
#6,700
bowlinggreenvol said:
It's not putting words in your mouth, it's showing statistically why we were less likely to give up 30. If one teams plays more teams who avg 30+ than the other team does, then there's a good chance that team will have 30 scored on them. We played 8 who avg less than 30, they played 7 who avg more than 30. I like our odds to hold our opponents to less 30 because that would be the status quo.
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BG, the offenses in the ACC pad their stats against crappy defenses. Vandy would've had an adequate offense in the ACC.
 
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