15 GA SG Malik Beasley (TN offer)

#51
#51
@ half of the schools in the final top 25 didn't have a top 25 recruiting class the year prior.
Y'all twist it however you need to.
 
#52
#52
Spartacavolus said:
@ half of the schools in the final top 25 didn't have a top 25 recruiting class the year prior.
Y'all twist it however you need to.
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I don't think 1 year is a big enough sample size, 3-4 players that make a top 20 class being added to a bad team don't make a top 25 team. My guess is that if you took the last 3 classes, and averaged out the team finishes, majority of top 25 would be top 25.

Like I also said, transfers create an issue with this discussion, because they don't count. How much different would our recruiting class be ranked if Ian Chiles and Eric McKnight (had he qualified) be ranked? How about a former 5* like Rodney Hood going to Duke, didn't count on their recruiting rankings but he definitely made a huge impact.
 
#53
#53
Spartacavolus said:
Like UCONN did with their last 2 classes not ranked the top 30?
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Their main players were highly ranked. Their low class rankings were due to size and foreign players. How many championship teams have had consistent classes outside of the top 20?
 
#54
#54
k-town_king said:
Their main players were highly ranked. Their low class rankings were due to size and foreign players. How many championship teams have had consistent classes outside of the top 20?
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Your argument was squashed with last year's champion, and my second post regarding teams ranked in the final top 25 that didn't have top 20 recruiting classes in the previous year or two years.
You are fine keeping your opinion regarding the requirment of top 20 classes to win. It's just an uninformed one. There are too many variables to say top 20 means winning and winning requires top 20. It's an inaccurate statement.
 
#55
#55
Spartacavolus said:
Like UCONN did with their last 2 classes not ranked the top 30?
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This argument is extremely flawed on uconn....the three stars of uconn.....Daniels, Napier, and boat right were from top 20 classes.....the next two guys that contributed we're not included in the ranking system Bc one was foreign and one was a t/f.....no players from the past two classes avg more than 4 ppg or 3 RPGs during last season.
 
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#56
#56
volbeast33 said:
This argument is extremely flawed on uconn....the three stars of uconn.....Daniels, Napier, and boat right were from top 20 classes.....the next two guys that contributed we're not included in the ranking system Bc one was foreign and one was a t/f.....no players from the past two classes avg more than 4 ppg or 3 RPGs during last season.
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those arguing top 20 classes are necessary for success are flawed. My stance that top 20 classes aren't needed and if gained don't automatically equal success is backed up.
Players needed, yes. Coaching up, yes. But having to be ranked top 20 each year? Nope.
 
#57
#57
Spartacavolus said:
those arguing top 20 classes are necessary for success are flawed. My stance that top 20 classes aren't needed and if gained don't automatically equal success is backed up.
Players needed, yes. Coaching up, yes. But having to be ranked top 20 each year? Nope.
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There hasn't been a single person claim that u have to have a top 20 class every yr but u do need to have consistent top 20 classes(which is a pretty good sign u r getting top players.
 
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#58
#58
Except for the poster I responded to that posted "we have to get top 20 classes to compete with the big boys" after the other day posting that we can't win at UT without consisent top 20 classes.
He made a point and i debunked it. Pretty simple. There are plenty of top 20 teams each year that don't rank high in recruiting.
 
#59
#59
Spartacavolus said:
Except for the poster I responded to that posted "we have to get top 20 classes to compete with the big boys" after the other day posting that we can't win at UT without consisent top 20 classes.
He made a point and i debunked it. Pretty simple. There are plenty of top 20 teams each year that don't rank high in recruiting.
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Who are the high major teams that are consistently in the top 25 that don't have consistently top 25 classes?
 
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#60
#60
volbeast33 said:
Who are the high major teams that are consistently in the top 25 that don't have consistently top 25 classes?
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I don't know or care really. I took a quick look the other day at the final 25 and their recruiting ranking the previous year and @ 13 of the final 25 weren't in the top 30 in recruiting the year prior.
Nobody is saying we don't need players. A ranking by some dude in a cubicle doesn't make the player. I''ll take 2 jrichs every year. You can have the higher ranked woolridge, hall, and golden. If you were to put wool, hall, and trae in the same class and add chism, that's a top 20 class and it means nothing because only chism is a player.
 
#61
#61
Spartacavolus said:
I don't know or care really. I took a quick look the other day at the final 25 and their recruiting ranking the previous year and @ 13 of the final 25 weren't in the top 30 in recruiting the year prior.
Nobody is saying we don't need players. A ranking by some dude in a cubicle doesn't make the player. I''ll take 2 jrichs every year. You can have the higher ranked woolridge, hall, and golden. If you were to put wool, hall, and trae in the same class and add chism, that's a top 20 class and it means nothing because only chism is a player.
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Preach
 
#62
#62
Spartacavolus said:
I don't know or care really. I took a quick look the other day at the final 25 and their recruiting ranking the previous year and @ 13 of the final 25 weren't in the top 30 in recruiting the year prior.
Nobody is saying we don't need players. A ranking by some dude in a cubicle doesn't make the player. I''ll take 2 jrichs every year. You can have the higher ranked woolridge, hall, and golden. If you were to put wool, hall, and trae in the same class and add chism, that's a top 20 class and it means nothing because only chism is a player.
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And u can put jrich in with the class he was in that wasn't ranked and he was the only player that made even close to an impact. Yes there are guys that are underrated and some that are overrated but it is a very good guide to go by. This sounds like the same excuses made for Dooleys subpar recruiting.
 
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#65
#65
So are we competing to just be be in the top 25 or for NCs? You need top 20 classes to compete for titles. Yes you can have a year here and there below 20 but the bulk need to be top 20. What NC team has went 3 or 4 years without top 20 classes? UCONN's star players and scorers were from a highly ranked class and were highly ranked players. The vets who won the NC were not from low ranked classes.

I would take 2 Tobias Harrises every year over 2 JRichs .
 
#66
#66
k-town_king said:
So are we competing to just be be in the top 25 or for NCs? You need top 20 classes to compete for titles. Yes you can have a year here and there below 20 but the bulk need to be top 20. What NC team has went 3 or 4 years without top 20 classes? UCONN's star players and scorers were from a highly ranked class and were highly ranked players. The vets who won the NC were not from low ranked classes.

I would take 2 Tobias Harrises every year over 2 JRichs .
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Well if you take 2 Jrichs every year you end up with 8 total in four years. If you take two Tobias harrises you will only ever have two on the roster.
 
#67
#67
CAVol said:
Well if you take 2 Jrichs every year you end up with 8 total in four years. If you take two Tobias harrises you will only ever have two on the roster.
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I would take 2 players that average 15 and 7 with a block and a steal as soon as they come in over a player who averages 3,8,10 in their 3 years. I like J Rich and he will ball next year but there is no comparison with T Harris. J Rich will take 4 years to reach Harris's Fr numbers.
 
#68
#68
no shiznit you take a player playing pro. You don't really get the point. You are saying we will be fine if some dude in a cubicle ranks us top 20 and I'm saying you are wrong. That's about it. Nobody argues we don't need players but I listed several recent players for UT that were highly ranked and I'd never want on my team. The highest rated players we have had outside of Stokes, Mcrae and Harris. Harris played one year as well. We aren't Ky and Cal isn't coaching so racking up top 5 recruiting classes with one and dones isn't going to happen.
We need good dribblers, shooters and rebounders that want to work and play with great effort. With the right fit and coaching, you win. You can have top 20 ranked recruiting classes in succession but if they don't fit or play well together, one leaves or goes down or you don't coach to their strengths, you go to the NIT, so your ranking means nothing in regards to wins.
 
#70
#70
Spartacavolus said:
no shiznit you take a player playing pro. You don't really get the point. You are saying we will be fine if some dude in a cubicle ranks us top 20 and I'm saying you are wrong. That's about it. Nobody argues we don't need players but I listed several recent players for UT that were highly ranked and I'd never want on my team. The highest rated players we have had outside of Stokes, Mcrae and Harris. Harris played one year as well. We aren't Ky and Cal isn't coaching so racking up top 5 recruiting classes with one and dones isn't going to happen.
We need good dribblers, shooters and rebounders that want to work and play with great effort. With the right fit and coaching, you win. You can have top 20 ranked recruiting classes in succession but if they don't fit or play well together, one leaves or goes down or you don't coach to their strengths, you go to the NIT, so your ranking means nothing in regards to wins.
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So do we just want to win or do we want to compete nationally? Martin won and that wasn't good enough. I said his classes were mediocre for the most part. Those type of classes get wins but not even SEC titles. To win the SEC and compete nationally we need top 20 classes more years than not. If you get a top 20 class your players are more likely to be able to dribble, pass, shoot, and rebound well. Rankings aren't the be all end all, but stop acting like they arbitrarily rank players. Most basketball rankings are close to being right. The top players actually play each other so they know what the talent level is better than football. The teams who are perennially good have more top 20 classes than not. Look at the champions. They recruit highly rated players. When they have classes out of the top 20 it is usually due to small classes but they still have a high four or five star in the couple of players.
 
#71
#71
"Martin won and it wasn't good enough".

I'm not going to stoop that low on the intelligence scale and have a debate with someone who saw that process thru glasses shaded the color black.
 
#72
#72
Spartacavolus said:
"Martin won and it wasn't good enough".

I'm not going to stoop that low on the intelligence scale and have a debate with someone who saw that process thru glasses shaded the color black.
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You really need to chill with the racial accusations. People like you throw that out there when they have nothing to back up what they say.

Martin did win. It wasn't good enough to most fans. To win at a higher level you need better players. You recruit better classes 9 times out of 10 you have better players.

You said not making a tourney is a bad year no matter what the circumstances or expectations. I hope you stick to it with the new coach. You claim we should never lose to teams considered less talented no matter what. I hope you stick to that also. You complained about no White players. CDT hasn't signed any either. Lets see if you complain when we are still all Black in a couple years.

Even though the new coach is White I will treat him the same as Martin. We will see if you do. I know Martin overachieved his first year. You refuse to acknowledge that he did. If CDT can match that I will consider it overachieving also. If he doesn't match it will you bash him like you did Martin or give him a pass? When CDT loses to a worse team like he did several times last year will you bash him like you did Martin or give him a pass? I know sometimes teams lose to "worse" teams. Its college basketball. That is what happens sometime. Will you be understanding or bash him like you did Martin?

Lets see who treats the coaches differently this year before you start throwing out accusations.
 
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#73
#73
Spartacavolus said:
no shiznit you take a player playing pro. You don't really get the point. You are saying we will be fine if some dude in a cubicle ranks us top 20 and I'm saying you are wrong. That's about it. Nobody argues we don't need players but I listed several recent players for UT that were highly ranked and I'd never want on my team. The highest rated players we have had outside of Stokes, Mcrae and Harris. Harris played one year as well. We aren't Ky and Cal isn't coaching so racking up top 5 recruiting classes with one and dones isn't going to happen.
We need good dribblers, shooters and rebounders that want to work and play with great effort. With the right fit and coaching, you win. You can have top 20 ranked recruiting classes in succession but if they don't fit or play well together, one leaves or goes down or you don't coach to their strengths, you go to the NIT, so your ranking means nothing in regards to wins.
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Here are the guys rated 3* or below for Tennessee since pearls first yr:

* AJ Davis
* D Thompson
* R Ndiaye
* A Moore
* D Reese
* D Edwards
* R Childress
* D Harris
* M Johnson
* J Tabb
* B Williams
* B Maze
* D West
* M Goins
* Q Chievous
* y Mankanjoula
* J Richardson
* W Washpun
 
#74
#74
Now here are the 4* or better players since pearls first yr:

* R Hubbs
* J Stokes
* T Smith
* W Chism
* D Crews
* R Smith
* C Tatum
* S Hopson
* P Jurick
* R Woolridge
* K Hall
* T Golden
* T Harris
* J McRae
* JP Prince
* J Maymon

I will take those cubicle rated guys all day long over the lower rated ones.
 
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#75
#75
k-town_king said:
You really need to chill with the racial accusations. People like you throw that out there when they have nothing to back up what they say.

Martin did win. It wasn't good enough to most fans. To win at a higher level you need better players. You recruit better classes 9 times out of 10 you have better players.

You said not making a tourney is a bad year no matter what the circumstances or expectations. I hope you stick to it with the new coach. You claim we should never lose to teams considered less talented no matter what. I hope you stick to that also. You complained about no White players. CDT hasn't signed any either. Lets see if you complain when we are still all Black in a couple years.

Even though the new coach is White I will treat him the same as Martin. We will see if you do. I know Martin overachieved his first year. You refuse to acknowledge that he did. If CDT can match that I will consider it overachieving also. If he doesn't match it will you bash him like you did Martin or give him a pass? When CDT loses to a worse team like he did several times last year will you bash him like you did Martin or give him a pass? I know sometimes teams lose to "worse" teams. Its college basketball. That is what happens sometime. Will you be understanding or bash him like you did Martin?

Lets see who treats the coaches differently this year before you start throwing out accusations.
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Martin could have win more with the players he had if he'd hired an offensive minded assistant when it was blatantly obvious he didn't know how to coach it himself.
 
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