Utah State opens as early Vegas favorite @Tennessee

[sjt18]

You have stepped in it now. Remember the Poole being an elite back debates. Wave the white flag and move along.

If you think I ever said Poole was an "elite" back... then you apparently DON'T remember those debates very well. I said that "average or worse" RB's do not run for over 1000 yds in the SEC.

FWIW, Poole is on the Steeler's practice roster headed into next fall. Someone who pays football players must still think he has the potential to play in the NFL at some point.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Jones is unproven because he has not won in his current position and has had some VERY bad performances. Wells is proven because he has won in his current position with some VERY good performances against better teams.

Jones is unproven because his only success was at lower conferences (with very good performances against better teams). Wells in proven because of his success at a lower conferences with very good performances against better teams.

OK. Your logic is still broken.

Just admit it and say you want to wipe away Jones' former success, and want to ignore the fact that Wells hasn't seen anything remotely similar to what Jones faced last year.

 

[sjt18]

Butch jones in 2009 at Central Michigan. Look it up if you don't believe it. The recruiting classes years leading up to that and that very year were nothing but 2* with a few 3* here and there. He went 12-2 and beat Michigan State in the process. You want talent disparity? That's talent disparity. So don't say oh he was left with great players.

.

If resumes assured success then hiring people would be alot more certain and easier than it is.

It doesn't matter if he beat Seattle with a semi-Pro team somewhere in the past.... though that would be an impressive resume line... ALL that matters is what he has and will do at UT.

 

[sjt18]

Jones is unproven because his only success was at lower conferences (with very good performances against better teams). Wells in proven because of his success at a lower conferences with very good performances against better teams.

OK. Your logic is still broken.

Just admit it and say you want to wipe away Jones' former success, and want to ignore the fact that Wells hasn't seen anything remotely similar to what Jones faced last year.

This isn't that hard. If you were hiring a salesman for a job in Atlanta then it might make alot of sense to hire a guy who was successful in Chattanooga even though you know the competion he faced there was not as tough as ATL. But his success in Chattanooga DOES NOT assure success in ATL.

Wells by any measure succeeded in his first year. Jones may eventually succeed... but his first season leaves that in doubt.

 

[Orange_Crush]

If resumes assured success then hiring people would be alot more certain and easier than it is.

It doesn't matter if he beat Seattle with a semi-Pro team somewhere in the past.... though that would be an impressive resume line... ALL that matters is what he has and will do at UT.

Apparently, you miss the hypocrisy by saying that Wells is more proven than Jones. Apparently you are holding Jones to the SEC standard, when Wells has never had to prove himself there. Yet... He's more proven.

You've accepted (while negating) Jones' accomplishments at his lower conf stops, yet promote another coach, with a lesser resume, as "more proven".

Bad logic my friend.

 

[Orange_Crush]

This isn't that hard. If you were hiring a salesman for a job in Atlanta then it might make alot of sense to hire a guy who was successful in Chattanooga even though you know the competion he faced there was not as tough as ATL. But his success in Chattanooga DOES NOT assure success in ATL.

Wells by any measure succeeded in his first year. Jones may eventually succeed... but his first season leaves that in doubt.

It really isn't that hard. Jones had six years in lower conferences and showed more success than Wells has shown in one year at a lower conference. But you say Wells is more proven. That is illogical.

To judge Jones' first year against the brutality of last years' schedule as "less proven" than Wells, when Wells hasn't performed on that stage... Is illogical. Put another way... To say that Wells is more proven by not getting the opportunity to compete at that level, well... To be honest... It's asinine.

 

[Orange_Crush]

This isn't that hard. If you were hiring a salesman for a job in Atlanta then it might make alot of sense to hire a guy who was successful in Chattanooga even though you know the competion he faced there was not as tough as ATL. But his success in Chattanooga DOES NOT assure success in ATL.

Wells by any measure succeeded in his first year. Jones may eventually succeed... but his first season leaves that in doubt.

And for the record, if I hired a superstar salesman from Chattanooga, and he struggled in his transition in Atlanta... I would never claim that a talented upstart salesman from Dalton, who has never worked in Atlanta, is "more proven".

 

[Boca Vol]

And for the record, if I hired a superstar salesman from Chattanooga, and he struggled in his transition in Atlanta... I would never claim that a talented upstart salesman from Dalton, who has never worked in Atlanta, is "more proven".

Don't go hatin' on Dalton! :biggrin:

 

[Boca Vol]

And for the record, Vandy was more talented that Cinci.

Based on what? Wasn't that one of the "championship" teams Vol fans like to parade around when touting Butch's accomplishments? Comparing the talent between Vandy and Cincy in 2011 is like comparing horse sh&t to cow sh&t! It really doesn't matter.

We beat down cinci that year. We beat vandy by three in OT. How was vandy not more talented?

There's Volnation logic at its finest!

 

[BruiserVol]

Based on what? Wasn't that one of the "championship" teams Vol fans like to parade around when touting Butch's accomplishments? Comparing the talent between Vandy and Cincy in 2011 is like comparing horse sh&t to cow sh&t! It really doesn't matter.



There's Volnation logic at its finest!

Lol. About a good as the logic he's using IMO.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Don't go hatin' on Dalton! :biggrin:

 

[AboveAllNations]

Jones is unproven because he has not won in his current position and has had some VERY bad performances. Wells is proven because he has won in his current position with some VERY good performances against better teams.

Nick Saban wasn't "unproven" before he got to Alabama, and Urban Meyer wasn't unproven before he got to Ohio State. Hell, Urban Meyer wasn't unproven before he got to Florida, as he had already proved himself to be a turnaround artist at Bowling Green and Utah.

Similarly, Butch Jones had already PROVEN he was an overachieving winner before he set foot in Knoxville. An unproven coach is somebody with no prior winning record who's only gotten where he is in the coaching ranks due to pure nepotism (Lane Kiffin, Derek Dooley).

Sure, the Vanderbilt game was poorly coached, but their team was probably more talented than ours last year and we were still winning most of the game. Given our horrible team speed and inexperience, I think the Georgia and South Carolina games more than qualify as two "VERY good performances against better teams."

Now that Butch Jones finally has some elite talent to work with, he's going to do just fine. We are going to crush Utah State and go on to win at least 8 games. When we become the SEC East favorite in 2015 and beyond, your irrational pessimism is going to look pretty ridiculous.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Based on what? Wasn't that one of the "championship" teams Vol fans like to parade around when touting Butch's accomplishments? Comparing the talent between Vandy and Cincy in 2011 is like comparing horse sh&t to cow sh&t! It really doesn't matter.

I just looked up the Rivals Rankings. I withdraw that comment. lol :hi:

 

[MWAVolfan]

Where does this myth that Peterman was our highest rated QB coming out of high school keep coming from? He was a composite 3 star and had maybe one 4 star ranking. Dobbs and Ferguson were composite 4 stars and rated as 4 stars by multiple scouting sites. Additionally both were elite 11 semi finalists.

Worley was our lowest rated QB recruit, then peterman, then Dobbs and Ferguson at the top.

Look at rivals.com, Peterman is listed as a 4* and Fergusson, Dobbs and Worley are all 3*.

Peterman is listed as the #8 QB in the country in his class. The other three are not even in the top 20 QBs (maybe one of them was ranked #20, I cant remember).

 

[thebjd]

If you think I ever said Poole was an "elite" back... then you apparently DON'T remember those debates very well. I said that "average or worse" RB's do not run for over 1000 yds in the SEC.

FWIW, Poole is on the Steeler's practice roster headed into next fall. Someone who pays football players must still think he has the potential to play in the NFL at some point.

I do not want to re-visit that one. Poole is gone and I wish him the best. Just commenting on your tenacity.

 

[BruiserVol]

Look at rivals.com, Peterman is listed as a 4* and Fergusson, Dobbs and Worley are all 3*.

Peterman is listed as the #8 QB in the country in his class. The other three are not even in the top 20 QBs (maybe one of them was ranked #20, I cant remember).

Could he be THAT big of a bust? Wow... I wanna say it was his thumb and the o line letting him get pressured against UF, but he got to play against Austin Peay and looked subpar as well.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Look at rivals.com, Peterman is listed as a 4* and Fergusson, Dobbs and Worley are all 3*.

Peterman is listed as the #8 QB in the country in his class. The other three are not even in the top 20 QBs (maybe one of them was ranked #20, I cant remember).

On scout, Dobbs was a 4 star recruit, the #12 QB in the country. He was also an elite-11 finalist. Of the elite-11 finalists, Trent Dilfer stated that he will be a program changer.

Ferguson was a 3 star, #42 QB in the country and elite-11 finalist. Dilfer stated that he was one of the most talented QBs at the competition and lamented his broken hand during competition.

Stop talking like they were both a couple of scrubs.

 

[MWAVolfan]

Crystal ballers are hilarious. You make these definitive statements and pass them off as facts before the team has even fielded a practice. Hopefully you will still be around if and when what you are predicting doesn't occur.

I am not a crystal baller by any stretch, but UT isnt going to win 8 games period. You dont have to have inside knowledge or be Phil Steele to know that me saying between 5-7 and 7-5 is the correct prediction for this season. To predict more than that requires an unreasonable amount of confidence (or foolishness), borderlining on having some serious credibility issues. It would take an absolute miracle to lose only 4 games on our schedule. If you are making a prediction based on miracles then your method of prediction is flawed.

Dont get me wrong, you can feel as confident or high on CBJ as you want. That's a good thing. But scrub your optimism with a little reality before making predictions or criticizing others for their predictions.

And I'll be right here when the season is over.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I am not a crystal baller by any stretch, but UT isnt going to win 8 games period.

Pure awesomeness!!!!!

 

[MWAVolfan]

On scout, Dobbs was a 4 star recruit, the #12 QB in the country. He was also an elite-11 finalist. Of the elite-11 finalists, Trent Dilfer stated that he will be a program changer.

Ferguson was a 3 star, #42 QB in the country and elite-11 finalist. Dilfer stated that he was one of the most talented QBs at the competition and lamented his broken hand during competition.

Stop talking like they were both a couple of scrubs.

Yeah, I dont go by Scout at all. I look at Rivals or 247 pretty much exclusively. Somebody mentioned earlier that Scouts is unreliable and I tend to agree.

anyway, I dont think Peterman will ever be the full time starter at UT and I dont think the other two would be if CBJ had recruited his own QB.

 

[KBVol]

Yeah, I dont go by Scout at all. I look at Rivals or 247 pretty much exclusively. Somebody mentioned earlier that Scouts is unreliable and I tend to agree.

anyway, I dont think Peterman will ever be the full time starter at UT and I dont think the other two would be if CBJ had recruited his own QB.

Dobbs was CBJs recruit. Flipped him from ASU at the 11th hr last year.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Dobbs was CBJs recruit. Flipped him from ASU at the 11th hr last year.

I was going to point that out, but... Why bother? Oh, and edit: CBJ desperately wanted Peterman in his system while at Cinci.

 

[MWAVolfan]

Dobbs was CBJs recruit. Flipped him from ASU at the 11th hr last year.

That's true. I assumed he was a Dooley guy. Anyway CBJ desperately grabbing for a QB when he saw that there was not a good option at UT is not the same a targeting a QB from the beginning.

And none of that changes the validity of my previous statements about our QBs or the outcome of the coming season.

Like I said before, if you dont have a guy that you consider your outright #1 guy and you have to decide who is the best after they practice, then you dont really have a good QB.

 

[Orange_Crush]

That's true. I assumed he was a Dooley guy. Anyway CBJ desperately grabbing for a QB when he saw that there was not a good option at UT is not the same a targeting a QB from the beginning.

You do know he wanted Peterman at Cinci, right? He liked Peterman a lot.

And none of that changes the validity of my previous statements about our QBs or the outcome of the coming season.

You mean when you said that you're not a crystal-baller, but UT absolutely, positively won't win 8 games this year?

Like I said before, if you dont have a guy that you consider your outright #1 guy and you have to decide who is the best after they practice, then you dont really have a good QB.

Yah. He should make all his decisions based on preconceived notions and not even attend the practices. How have you never gotten a coaching position yet? You're brilliant.

 

[MWAVolfan]

You do know he wanted Peterman at Cinci, right? He liked Peterman a lot.



You mean when you said that you're not a crystal-baller, but UT absolutely, positively won't win 8 games this year?



Yah. He should make all his decisions based on preconceived notions and not even attend the practices. How have you never gotten a coaching position yet? You're brilliant.

Time will tell I guess. I got all kinds of time. I'll be right in the end. I usually am. This isnt rocket science. If Tennessee wins 8 games I will shake your hand and congratulate you. But you're like the guy that says UT will go undefeated every year and then one year when they do, you say "I told you so". It's far more meaningful to predict that your team will be mediocre at best and then be right (which I will be). It shows that you know what you're seeing and are not just being a jerk picking on people who have made an honest assessment of the team.

something monumentally bad would have to happen to many of our opponents for us to reach 8 wins. Tennessee just wont have the horses to beat all those teams straight up....... YET.

Have a good day.