Obama Continues to Repeal Obamacare

#27
#27
Gramps said:
It didn't cause any long-term pain that I can tell. It did cause the Republican party more pain than anything else that I know of. It killed Cruz 2016 chances, which is a good thing, at a time he was gaining power in the party. It made things inconvenient for a few days for some.
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but if it had no real effect then why would it cause the GOP any pain? If shutting down govt agencies truly caused no pain then that seems like a huge win to small govt proponents

from what I could tell, most of my friends who were sent home just spent the time drinking at brunch
 
#28
#28
utvolpj said:
but if it had no real effect then why would it cause the GOP any pain? If shutting down govt agencies truly caused no pain then that seems like a huge win to small govt proponents

from what I could tell, most of my friends who were sent home just spent the time drinking at brunch
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Why did it cause the GOP harm ? Obama, the Dems and the mainstream media did a very good job of selling to the American people all the harm Ted Cruz and the Republicans were causing to American by shutting the government down. Basically the dems outsmarted the repubs on the shutdown.
 
#29
#29
Gramps said:
Why did it cause the GOP harm ? Obama, the Dems and the mainstream media did a very good job of selling to the American people all the harm Ted Cruz and the Republicans were causing to American by shutting the government down. Basically the dems outsmarted the repubs on the shutdown.
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Let me ask you this. Did you agree with the principles behind the shutdown?
 
#30
#30
Gramps said:
Why did it cause the GOP harm ? Obama, the Dems and the mainstream media did a very good job of selling to the American people all the harm Ted Cruz and the Republicans were causing to American by shutting the government down. Basically the dems outsmarted the repubs on the shutdown.
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so they lied, stupid people believed them and that's what we call harm these days?

If you look at what actually happened was there any real harm done?
 
#31
#31
Obozo knows if the GOP controls the Senate, he will be impeached. Doubt the GOP will have the 60 something to remove from office though.
 
#32
#32
AirVol said:
Obozo knows if the GOP controls the Senate, he will be impeached. Doubt the GOP will have the 60 something to remove from office though.
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GOP controls the house and he hasn't been impeached. Why wait on controlling the Senate when that wouldn't matter anyways?
 
#33
#33
Gramps said:
Why did it cause the GOP harm ? Obama, the Dems and the mainstream media did a very good job of selling to the American people all the harm Ted Cruz and the Republicans were causing to American by shutting the government down. .
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This has been (and will continue to be) standard operating procedure anytime there is a shutdown. Democrats are given free passes by the media. The press and pundits hang the issue around all Republicans' neck like a noose. Do you recall who was blamed when Reagan was in office? Who was blamed when Clinton was president? The scapegoat will be anyone without a D beside their name.

Cruz, whether you think him looney or principled, will get the blame because of his party affiliation and because he is outspoken. So, what harm is there in going against the leadership? One needs to look at the approval rating of Congress to understand he only has to reasonate with about 15% of Americans to be seen in a more favorable light compared to his political body as a whole. He has the added security of representing a conservative district. He did no harm to himself presently or in the future.

After all, if republicans, conservatives, and blue dog democrats are willing to allow the media's portrayal of them to frighten them so profoundly and that fear prevents them from taking a stand (or standing out) then the liberals will win on every issue by forfeiture. And Gramps, forfeiting is a very poor strategy for victory.
 
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#34
#34
utvolpj said:
GOP controls the house and he hasn't been impeached. Why wait on controlling the Senate when that wouldn't matter anyways?
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Because the Senate holds the trial. We all know who controls the senate now, right?
 
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#35
#35
AirVol said:
Because the Senate holds the trial. We all know who controls the senate now, right?
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ok but he can be impeached without ever needing the Senate. The GOP controls the house so what are they waiting for?
 
#36
#36
Grand Vol said:
Let me ask you this. Did you agree with the principles behind the shutdown?
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I fo not believe shutting down the government was the correct way to go. I strongly believe spending needs to be cut. In order to cut spending congress needs to cut spending instead of continually spending more and more. I thought the shutdown was being hypocritical. Many of the same lawmakers selling the shutdown are the now same members that has voted to spend all these trillions of dollars. You vote to spend money that has to be borrowed, you should be responsible enough to make the payments.

The Republicans during the W years show they are no different than the dems when it comes to spending money foolishly. Now that a dem is in WH they are protraying themselves as the responsibility party . The 2000's show they are now. I kerp saying and will say again rhetoric is the only difference in the parties.
 
#38
#38
utvolpj said:
so they lied, stupid people believed them and that's what we call harm these days?

If you look at what actually happened was there any real harm done?
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If one leans to the right, yes there was real harm. These types of actions drives voters away from voting republican. Sure the GOP will do good on their gerrymandered districts but this group has done harm to the party.
 
#39
#39
Gramps said:
If one leans to the right, yes there was real harm. These types of actions drives voters away from voting republican. Sure the GOP will do good on their gerrymandered districts but this group has done harm to the party.
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I don't care about parties I simply asked what harm the shutdown actually caused. By harm I mean to citizens or our country and not some worthless political party. It did nothing but show there's a whole heck of a lot of non-essential still receiving tax dollars to perform their job.

the only harm to the GOP was caused by lying politicians and media members. Do you truly consider that more harmful to an individual party or to the process itself?
 
#40
#40
utvolpj said:
ok but he can be impeached without ever needing the Senate. The GOP controls the house so what are they waiting for?
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Ever heard of Joe Biden?

Add to that basically every president in my lifetime has done things they could be impeached for. The GOP realizes it would come back to bite them in the arse when a GOP is in WH.
 
#41
#41
utvolpj said:
I don't care about parties I simply asked what harm the shutdown actually caused. By harm I mean to citizens or our country and not some worthless political party. It did nothing but show there's a whole heck of a lot of non-essential still receiving tax dollars to perform their job.

the only harm to the GOP was caused by lying politicians and media members. Do you truly consider that more harmful to an individual party or to the process itself?
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In my first answer to you, go back and check, I stated that I did not see any long-term harm done to American.
 
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#42
#42
Gramps said:
In my first answer to you, go back and check, I stated that I did not see any long-term harm done to American.
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so the only harm is caused by ignorant people believing the lies of the Dems and the media? To me that's more damaging to the process than to any political party. Remove the vote of the ignorant and maybe we can move forward one day. Until then we'll just continue the charade that is the US govt
 
#43
#43
McDad said:
This has been (and will continue to be) standard operating procedure anytime there is a shutdown. Democrats are given free passes by the media. The press and pundits hang the issue around all Republicans' neck like a noose. Do you recall who was blamed when Reagan was in office? Who was blamed when Clinton was president? The scapegoat will be anyone without a D beside their name.

Cruz, whether you think him looney or principled, will get the blame because of his party affiliation and because he is outspoken. So, what harm is there in going against the leadership? One needs to look at the approval rating of Congress to understand he only has to reasonate with about 15% of Americans to be seen in a more favorable light compared to his political body as a whole. He has the added security of representing a conservative district. He did no harm to himself presently or in the future.

After all, if republicans, conservatives, and blue dog democrats are willing to allow the media's portrayal of them to frighten them so profoundly and that fear prevents them from taking a stand (or standing out) then the liberals will win on every issue by forfeiture. And Gramps, forfeiting is a very poor strategy for victory.
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I disagree. I believe Cruz would have been a major player for the 2016 nomination. His role in the shutdown killed his 2016 changes.

As I posted earlier? If congress votes to spend money we fo not have they should be responsible enough to vote to pay the bills. They should be cutting spending instead of playing foolish political game to appease part of the base of their party.
 
#44
#44
utvolpj said:
ok but he can be impeached without ever needing the Senate. The GOP controls the house so what are they waiting for?
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House can vote to impeach, but Senate has the power to remove from office.

Plus, every Obamabot will use the race card and the msm will lead the way.

I honestly don't think an impeachment will happen even if the GOP controls everything except the White House.
 
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#45
#45
AirVol said:
House can vote to impeach, but Senate has the power to remove from office.

Plus, every Obamabot will use the race card and the msm will lead the way.

I honestly don't think an impeachment will happen even if the GOP controls everything except the White House.
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you still haven't explained why the GOP-controlled house hasn't impeached if there truly is a reason. The Senate argument you keep bringing up is irrelevant

if there have truly been impeachable crimes committed then is it not their duty to do it?
 
#46
#46
AirVol said:
House can vote to impeach, but Senate has the power to remove from office.

Plus, every Obamabot will use the race card and the msm will lead the way.

I honestly don't think an impeachment will happen even if the GOP controls everything except the White House.
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This. And would cause all sorts of trouble if it happened.
 
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#47
#47
utvolpj said:
so the only harm is caused by ignorant people believing the lies of the Dems and the media? To me that's more damaging to the process than to any political party. Remove the vote of the ignorant and maybe we can move forward one day. Until then we'll just continue the charade that is the US govt
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No . The harm done is these hypocritical politicians vote to spend money we do not have then try to blame all our debt on the opposing party. The American people are not that stupid. .the GOP has caused as much of this debt as the Dems have. Again look at the members votes on spending then look at their rhetoric now. They are hypocrites.
 
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#48
#48
Gramps said:
No . The harm done is these hypocritical politicians vote to spend money we do not have then try to blame all our debt on the opposing party. The American people are not that stupid. .the GOP has caused as much of this debt as the Dems have. Again look at the members votes on spending then look at their rhetoric now. They are hypocrites.
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then you should be cheering the shutdown. It showed that there's plenty to cut if someone truly wanted to. Start attacking the Dems and the media for lying to the American people instead of talking about the harm done to the GOP (another Dem lie)

I still believe the people putting these politicians in office are the real problem
 
#49
#49
utvolpj said:
then you should be cheering the shutdown. It showed that there's plenty to cut if someone truly wanted to. Start attacking the Dems and the media for lying to the American people instead of talking about the harm done to the GOP (another Dem lie)

I still believe the people putting these politicians in office are the real problem
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Polls show you are wrong PJ.
 
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