Preemptive Grammys Gay Marriage Thread

#526
#526
govols/cc said:
& very few will lose sleep over it. The country has already gone to sh** so what's one more thing?
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There are many things wrong with this country. I will agree to that point. The fact that you see two individuals committing themselves to each other for life as one of those problems is sad. They're not looking to harm anyone. They just want to live in a society where they are not designated second-class citizens.
 
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#528
#528
Obsessed said:
I can agree with this.

My questions are this:
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Why must I see grown men French kissing on every other channel?

- I don't really enjoy watching a glut of intimacy of any kind myself. Let's be honest, though, there really isn't that much gay intimacy on outside specific networks. It's relatively easy to avoid.

Why force this lifestyle on myself and my children?

- I don't understand how it's being forced on anyone. If you don't like gay people, that's okay. No one should be forced to accept it; it's more about tolerance and equality. Also, I think it's actually good for children (at the appropriate age) to understand what homosexuality is. Not talking about intimacy, but how some people are born different. There is no need for worry, your children cannot be 'made' gay; that's propaganda.

Why must hetro's accept it?

- They do not have to accept it. Tolerance and equal treatment under the law is all I'm looking for.

Why must church's accept it?

- They do not have to accept it. I fully support religious freedom and would stand with any church if an attempt was made to force a same-sex marriage. Just keep it within the church and out of politics.

And lastly- what's more innate? To procreate or?

- They are both innate. Procreation is a product of sexuality. I have made clear that homosexuality is in direct opposition to the biologic reproductive norm. That is indisputable. That also doesn't change the fact that sexuality is innate. A small percentage of the population is gay, so obviously it's not a dominant trait.
 
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#529
#529
Weezer said:
There are many things wrong with this country. I will agree to that point. The fact that you see two individuals committing themselves to each other for life as one of those problems is sad. They're not looking to harm anyone. They just want to live in a society where they are not designated second-class citizens.
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Oh well it is what it is. Most of those who accept it & are tolerant of their lifestyles still find it repulsive & grotesque. Seeing a same sex couple together is fine but nobody wants to see two guys making out or showing affection in a public place. Nobody wants their kids to be around that or at least very few do. I'm sure most people love their kids more than anything but damn near every parent would be disappointed to find out their child was homosexual. Even those that accept it & want their kid to be happy would always have that disappointment. It is what it is & it won't ever change in our lifetimes.
 
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#530
#530
Weezer said:
It's weird, but being called dumb by someone who has to resort to calling others dumb because he/she can't field an arguement does not bother me.
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That's fine because being called narrow minded simply because I have a different opinion than you doesn't bother me. :good!:
 
#531
#531
BigOrangeTrain said:
He equates gay marriage to slavery and women's rights. He fits perfectly into Mama Gump's saying "stupid is as stupid does."
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Are you really too dense to understand that it wasn't an equation? My statement was to directly demonstrate that ultimately slavery & civil rights and the women's suffrage were thought of as much in the same fashion as you view this.

Your myopic view of gay rights will ultimately fall on the wrong side of history as society continues to evolve. I don't expect you to realize it however, mainly because you claim to derive your sense of morality from a bronze age book that advocates slavery and genocide (among other atrocities.)

Frankly, this concept may be to tough for you to comprehend. This seems to be a common theme with you and your bible thumping ilk.
 
#532
#532
Septic said:
Are you really too dense to understand that it wasn't an equation? My statement was to directly demonstrate that ultimately slavery & civil rights and the women's suffrage were thought of as much in the same fashion as you view this.

Your myopic view of gay rights will ultimately fall on the wrong side of history as society continues to evolve. I don't expect you to realize it however, mainly because you claim to derive your sense of morality from a bronze age book that advocates slavery and genocide (among other atrocities.)

Frankly, this concept may be to tough for you to comprehend. This seems to be a common theme with you and your bible thumping ilk.
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Hopefully gays can ride it out as long as blacks & like women have selective equality with perks. Oh that goes for blacks too.
 
#533
#533
FLVOL69 said:
Now you know how I felt when Budweiser sold out to Stella Artois ...
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In Bev owns Bud and many other brands including Stella.

If you've got netflix, look up Beerwars. It may even be on youtube.
 
#535
#535
govols/cc said:
Oh well it is what it is. Most of those who accept it & are tolerant of their lifestyles still find it repulsive & grotesque. Seeing a same sex couple together is fine but nobody wants to see two guys making out or showing affection in a public place. Nobody wants their kids to be around that or at least very few do. I'm sure most people love their kids more than anything but damn near every parent would be disappointed to find out their child was homosexual. Even those that accept it & want their kid to be happy would always have that disappointment. It is what it is & it won't ever change in our lifetimes.
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I helped raise my nephew. I helped put him through college. I'm straight, he's not, and I'm not disappointed in him. I admire his courage for being who he is and not hiding it. Far from disappointed, I'm extremely proud of him. So please, don't speak in generalizations, speak for yourself.

As for PDA, it makes me uncomfortable to see any couple despite gender make up get overly affectionate in public. As is often said, "Get a room!"
 
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#536
#536
Weezer said:
I helped raise my nephew. I helped put him through college. I'm straight, he's not, and I'm not disappointed in him. I admire his courage for being who he is and not hiding it. Far from disappointed, I'm extremely proud of him. So please, don't speak in generalizations, speak for yourself.

As for PDA, it makes me uncomfortable to see any couple despite gender make up get overly affectionate in public. As is often said, "Get a room!"
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So were his parents disappointed? As for PDA neither makes me uncomfortable. One is kinda funny & the other is really sick.
 
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#537
#537
BigOrangeTrain said:
That's fine because being called narrow minded simply because I have a different opinion than you doesn't bother me. :good!:
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I don't think you're narrow-minded because you have a different opinion. I think you're narrow-minded because you have yet to make a valid arguement and instead resort to poor insults and name-calling.
 
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#538
#538
Weezer said:
I don't think you're narrow-minded because you have a different opinion. I think you're narrow-minded because you have yet to make a valid arguement and instead resort to poor insults and name-calling.
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Well damn how is your "valid" argument supporting it any better than is his argument against it?
 
#539
#539
Weezer said:
There are many things wrong with this country. I will agree to that point. The fact that you see two individuals committing themselves to each other for life as one of those problems is sad. They're not looking to harm anyone. They just want to live in a society where they are not designated second-class citizens.
Click to expand...

The fact that you are saying its sad that someone has a different opinion about love and marriage than you do is sad. What's wrong with people opposing gay marriage? Why is it because some people oppose it, it makes them sad?

Second-class citizens? How so? Can they vote? Get a job? Have a bank account? Get government assistance? Get medical care if needed? Can they eat and shop where they want? Can they own a business? Can they get an education? Can they own property? Have a credit card? Can they run for state or government office? Can they get a tax refund? Homosexuals are not second class citizens. Not even close. I despise homosexuality but I would never consider gays as second class citizens. I have 2 cousins in California who are gay. I hate their sin and do not agree with them wanting to get married. However they are my family I will always love them.
 
#540
#540
BigOrangeTrain said:
The fact that you are saying its sad that someone has a different opinion about love and marriage than you do is sad. What's wrong with people opposing gay marriage? Why is it because some people oppose it, it makes them sad?

Second-class citizens? How so? Can they vote? Get a job? Have a bank account? Get government assistance? Get medical care if needed? Can they eat and shop where they want? Can they own a business? Can they get an education? Can they own property? Have a credit card? Can they run for state or government office? Can they get a tax refund? Homosexuals are not second class citizens. Not even close. I despise homosexuality but I would never consider gays as second class citizens. I have 2 cousins in California who are gay. I hate their sin and do not agree with them wanting to get married. However they are my family I will always love them.
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So if you had all of the items you mentioned above, but were denied visitation or medical decision making for an ill spouse you'd consider yourself on even footing with your fellow citizens who did have that privilege?
 
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#541
#541
Weezer said:
I don't think you're narrow-minded because you have a different opinion. I think you're narrow-minded because you have yet to make a valid arguement and instead resort to poor insults and name-calling.
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You said to another poster that this whole back and forth argument is just to broaden narrow minded people before the inevitable happens. That implies someone who opposes gay marriage is narrow minded.
 
#542
#542
govols/cc said:
So were his parents disappointed? As for PDA neither makes me uncomfortable. One is kinda funny & the other is really sick.
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They may have been. I never asked. I can't speak for them. I can speak for myself. I can tell you I love the boy as if he were my own son. Do you not believe a man can raise or help raise a child that's not biologically his own, yet love him as if he were? I've seen it many times in my life.

The one thing I can say, I was never disappointed in him, but I was absolutely scared for him, because I knew/know he will face the judgement of those who are intolerant. There will always be those who want to deny him the happiness he deserves. If one of your children grows up and is gay, I guarantee you your attitude will change. Love is not something you turn off and on. I hope someday you see that.
 
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#543
#543
Addendum: Not saying I hope one of your children is gay. That would be spiteful. I'm hoping you realize love isn't an emotion that comes with an off switch.
 
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#544
#544
Septic said:
Are you really too dense to understand that it wasn't an equation? My statement was to directly demonstrate that ultimately slavery & civil rights and the women's suffrage were thought of as much in the same fashion as you view this.

Your myopic view of gay rights will ultimately fall on the wrong side of history as society continues to evolve. I don't expect you to realize it however, mainly because you claim to derive your sense of morality from a bronze age book that advocates slavery and genocide (among other atrocities.)

Frankly, this concept may be to tough for you to comprehend. This seems to be a common theme with you and your bible thumping ilk.
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Blah, blah, blah the Bible is wrong, a Bronze Age book and religion is stupid. Your same old rhetoric.

I know my views will fall on the wrong side of history. I am banking on it. That way when future generations look back at this time they will see what a huge mistake society made.
 
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#546
#546
Weezer said:
They may have been. I never asked. I can't speak for them. I can speak for myself. I can tell you I love the boy as if he were my own son. Do you not believe a man can raise or help raise a child that's not biologically his own, yet love him as if he were? I've seen it many times in my life.

The one thing I can say, I was never disappointed in him, but I was absolutely scared for him, because I knew/know he will face the judgement of those who are intolerant. There will always be those who want to deny him the happiness he deserves. If one of your children grows up and is gay, I guarantee you your attitude will change. Love is not something you turn off and on. I hope someday you see that.
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Men do it all the time. It's pretty much impossible to find a woman now days that doesn't have kids. As for being disappointed in my kids if one were gay......yes I would be. Would I still love them & want them to be happy? Yes. Would some of my views change? Maybe. Would I understand why people would have opposing views? Yes.
 
#547
#547
BigOrangeTrain said:
The fact that you are saying its sad that someone has a different opinion about love and marriage than you do is sad. What's wrong with people opposing gay marriage? Why is it because some people oppose it, it makes them sad?

Second-class citizens? How so? Can they vote? Get a job? Have a bank account? Get government assistance? Get medical care if needed? Can they eat and shop where they want? Can they own a business? Can they get an education? Can they own property? Have a credit card? Can they run for state or government office? Can they get a tax refund? Homosexuals are not second class citizens. Not even close. I despise homosexuality but I would never consider gays as second class citizens. I have 2 cousins in California who are gay. I hate their sin and do not agree with them wanting to get married. However they are my family I will always love them.
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gcbvol's post answers this.

You love your 2 cousins so much you'd rather they be unhappy in life? Doesn't sound like love.
 
#549
#549
Weezer said:
Addendum: Not saying I hope one of your children is gay. That would be spiteful. I'm hoping you realize love isn't an emotion that comes with an off switch.
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This is a great point. It often takes someone having a child who is gay to evolve on the issue. It forces people to consider the whole situation more closely, and to actually understand better. Of course it's likely to be difficult, but ultimately it can help people grow.
 
#550
#550
BigOrangeTrain said:
The fact that you are saying its sad that someone has a different opinion about love and marriage than you do is sad. What's wrong with people opposing gay marriage? Why is it because some people oppose it, it makes them sad?

Second-class citizens? How so? Can they vote? Get a job? Have a bank account? Get government assistance? Get medical care if needed? Can they eat and shop where they want? Can they own a business? Can they get an education? Can they own property? Have a credit card? Can they run for state or government office? Can they get a tax refund? Homosexuals are not second class citizens. Not even close. I despise homosexuality but I would never consider gays as second class citizens. I have 2 cousins in California who are gay. I hate their sin and do not agree with them wanting to get married. However they are my family I will always love them.
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"What's wrong with people opposing gay marriage?"

Simple. If you're not the one getting married, why should you have a say in it? You should have no involvement whatsoever.
 
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