Preemptive Grammys Gay Marriage Thread

#386
#386
hog88 said:
No, valid question.
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Thanks for clarifying. Your example would not be what I consider conversion. A heterosexual man can have sex with another man just as a homosexual man can have sex with a woman. The fact they do this does not necessarily change their innate sexuality. Are you suggesting that these men, once released from prison, would continue having sex with other men? I find that proposition dubious. Sex in prison is much more about getting off than same-sex attraction; they are simply taking advantage of what's available to them.

How many gay men have married and had children in an attempt to defeat their homosexuality, only to eventually fail and hurt those families? Some people have the capacity to perform acts contrary to their nature, but the fact they do does not change their nature.
 
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#389
#389
gcbvol said:
Thanks for clarifying. Your example would not be what I consider conversion. A heterosexual man can have sex with another man just as a homosexual man can have sex with a woman. The fact they do this does not necessarily change their innate sexuality. Are you suggesting that these men, once released from prison, would continue having sex with other men? I find that proposition dubious. Sex in prison is much more about getting off than same-sex attraction; they are simply taking advantage of what's available to them.

How many gay men have married and had children in an attempt to defeat their homosexuality, only to eventually fail and hurt those families? Some people have the capacity to perform acts contrary to their nature, but the fact they do does not change their nature.
Click to expand...


When someone says homosexuality is unnatural there are gays & others that throw up the argument that it happens with other species. They argue homosexuality isn't a choice. They say homosexuality has been around for centuries. Yet when the argument of comparing it to beastiality & pedophelia come up people those same people wanna be quick to disregard it simply because it doesn't suit their agenda. Has not beastiality & pedophelia not been around as long as homosexuality? Are those perversions not based on a sexual attraction? Is this just a choice or something innate? The only thing that separates these things is homosexuality, for the most part, is between two adults but its the exact same as the others.
 
#390
#390
gcbvol said:
Thanks for clarifying. Your example would not be what I consider conversion. A heterosexual man can have sex with another man just as a homosexual man can have sex with a woman. The fact they do this does not necessarily change their innate sexuality. Are you suggesting that these men, once released from prison, would continue having sex with other men? I find that proposition dubious. Sex in prison is much more about getting off than same-sex attraction; they are simply taking advantage of what's available to them.

How many gay men have married and had children in an attempt to defeat their homosexuality, only to eventually fail and hurt those families? Some people have the capacity to perform acts contrary to their nature, but the fact they do does not change their nature.
Click to expand...


Thanks for the answer.

I for one, could be wrong, believe it is more of a choice than genetic or a predisposition. We as a species are horny muther frs who want to get laid. I've seen a couple of the guys who work for my wife bounce back and forth, guy this week, girl next week. So there is choice involved.

Some might just be more predisposed to act on their desires more than others. But again, could be wrong and in any case, to each their own.
 
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#391
#391
govols/cc said:
When someone says homosexuality is unnatural there are gays & others that throw up the argument that it happens with other species. They argue homosexuality isn't a choice. They say homosexuality has been around for centuries. Yet when the argument of comparing it to beastiality & pedophelia come up people those same people wanna be quick to disregard it simply because it doesn't suit their agenda. Has not beastiality & pedophelia not been around as long as homosexuality? Are those perversions not based on a sexual attraction? Is this just a choice or something innate? The only thing that separates these things is homosexuality, for the most part, is between two adults but its the exact same as the others.
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Sure. I've used the point about being part of the natural world before as I feel it's relevant. I also agree that there are elements of the natural world we find 'good' and 'bad'. Pedophilia and interspecies sex does occur in the natural world along with homosexuality, no argument there.

The difference you noted, however, is critical. Two consenting adults harming no one else - there are no victims. Bestiality and pedophilia create victims - that is a huge differentiator.

I also readily state that homosexuality is in direct opposition to the biologic reproductive norm. It's not normal but it is natural. I can't tell you why it exists; I don't know. There has been some compelling research that suggests it could be related to higher fecundity in the female family members of gay men, so even though homosexuals cannot reproduce in their 'natural' relationship condition perhaps their families reproduce at a higher rate. Interesting stuff.
 
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#392
#392
hog88 said:
Thanks for the answer.

I for one, could be wrong, believe it is more of a choice than genetic or a predisposition. We as a species are horny muther frs who want to get laid. I've seen a couple of the guys who work for my wife bounce back and forth, guy this week, girl next week. So there is choice involved.

Some might just be more predisposed to act on their desires more than others. But again, could be wrong and in any case, to each their own.
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Fair enough.

If you only knew how much I wanted and tried to like women. For years I tried, but it just wouldn't happen. I know it has to be difficult to understand if you're straight.
 
#393
#393
gcbvol said:
Fair enough.

If you only knew how much I wanted and tried to like women. For years I tried, but it just wouldn't happen. I know it has to be difficult to understand if you're straight.
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True, completely foreign concept to me. :hi:
 
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#394
#394
gcbvol said:
Sure. I've used the point about being part of the natural world before as I feel it's relevant. I also agree that there are elements of the natural world we find 'good' and 'bad'. Pedophilia and interspecies sex does occur in the natural world along with homosexuality, no argument there.

The difference you noted, however, is critical. Two consenting adults harming no one else - there are no victims. Bestiality and pedophilia create victims - that is a huge differentiator.

I also readily state that homosexuality is in direct opposition to the biologic reproductive norm. It's not normal but it is natural. I can't tell you why it exists; I don't know. There has been some compelling research that suggests it could be related to higher fecundity in the female family members of gay men, so even though homosexuals cannot reproduce in their 'natural' relationship condition perhaps their families reproduce at a higher rate. Interesting stuff.
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You're trying to reason with the unreasonable.

Anyone who believes that homosexuality is even remotely comparable to pedophilia should be openly mocked and their intellect ridiculed.
 
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#395
#395
Septic said:
You're trying to reason with the unreasonable.

Anyone who believes that homosexuality is even remotely comparable to pedophilia should be openly mocked and their intellect ridiculed.
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How are they not comparable? You have 2 supposed innate sexual desires that are both rather sick & grotesque. The only difference is legality.
 
#397
#397
govols/cc said:
When someone says homosexuality is unnatural there are gays & others that throw up the argument that it happens with other species. They argue homosexuality isn't a choice. They say homosexuality has been around for centuries. Yet when the argument of comparing it to beastiality & pedophelia come up people those same people wanna be quick to disregard it simply because it doesn't suit their agenda. Has not beastiality & pedophelia not been around as long as homosexuality? Are those perversions not based on a sexual attraction? Is this just a choice or something innate? The only thing that separates these things is homosexuality, for the most part, is between two adults but its the exact same as the others.
Click to expand...

Any sexuality is both innate and a choice. We each have sexual urges. We choose whether or not to act upon those urges. A hetero male is born with the urge to mate with women. As a straight male, tell me you've never seen a hot woman and thought "I want to hit that!" That is your natural urge. Now comes the choice part of the equation. If she's consenting, is it wrong? No, because it is consentual. If she's unwilling, and you choose to act upon that urge anyway, it's rape. We can all agree rape is wrong, correct?

So if a man is naturally attracted to another man, and both are consenting, how does any harm occur? Yes, a choice occured to act but the urges acted upon are natural to them. Pedophilia and bestiality are different because they involve parties unable to grant consent.

And back to the previous majority/minority rights arguement. There are certainly programs that exist that minorities use to their advantage. I won't argue that. But when looking at majority rights vs. minority rights, I myself always try to see the other side of the arguement and how I would feel if that were the side I was on. When it comes to programs designed to address race, I feel most are antiquated and have served their purpose, thus no longer having purpose. In the world as it is today. if I were a black man, I would want to be hired based on merit, not the color of my skin. MLK himself spoke of living in a world where a man was judged not by the color of his skin, but by the content of his heart, his character. Holding onto old programs that have run their course IMO is an obstacle to achieving the dream he spoke of.

But when I look at the issue of gay marriage, as a hetero male, I imagine if the govt was run by politicians who said, "Gay couples are going to be extended certain rights/benefits under govt protection as we see marriage as a govt institution and those rights/benefits will not be extended to man/woman couples." Would that be right? No. It's that simple. It would not be right, and if you were on the opposite side of the arguement being denied what is given to other couples, you'd be outraged. But you're not on the opposite side so you're willing to accept and promote them not getting those rights because you are only able to see marriage as it relates to a religious institution. When you're in church, or the privacy of your home, feel free to preach your beliefs on marriage as a religious institution, but when you're dealing with marriage as it relates to govt and politics, recognize that govt has made it another institution in which religion has no place. The Golden Rule : Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Do you want strangers dictating to you the relationship between you and your wife and the benefits marriage affords you?

How is it so hard to see that treating others equally is simply the right thing to do?
 
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#398
#398
All I want to know is why does a music awards show have to become the pulpit for homosexual promotion? If you're gay be gay who gives a damn..... Just stick to the music.
 
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#399
#399
Weezer said:
Any sexuality is both innate and a choice. We each have sexual urges. We choose whether or not to act upon those urges. A hetero male is born with the urge to mate with women. As a straight male, tell me you've never seen a hot woman and thought "I want to hit that!" That is your natural urge. Now comes the choice part of the equation. If she's consenting, is it wrong? No, because it is consentual. If she's unwilling, and you choose to act upon that urge anyway, it's rape. We can all agree rape is wrong, correct?

So if a man is naturally attracted to another man, and both are consenting, how does any harm occur? Yes, a choice occured to act but the urges acted upon are natural to them. Pedophilia and bestiality are different because they involve parties unable to grant consent.

And back to the previous majority/minority rights arguement. There are certainly programs that exist that minorities use to their advantage. I won't argue that. But when looking at majority rights vs. minority rights, I myself always try to see the other side of the arguement and how I would feel if that were the side I was on. When it comes to programs designed to address race, I feel most are antiquated and have served their purpose, thus no longer having purpose. In the world as it is today. if I were a black man, I would want to be hired based on merit, not the color of my skin. MLK himself spoke of living in a world where a man was judged not by the color of his skin, but by the content of his heart, his character. Holding onto old programs that have run their course IMO is an obstacle to achieving the dream he spoke of.

But when I look at the issue of gay marriage, as a hetero male, I imagine if the govt was run by politicians who said, "Gay couples are going to be extended certain rights/benefits under govt protection as we see marriage as a govt institution and those rights/benefits will not be extended to man/woman couples." Would that be right? No. It's that simple. It would not be right, and if you were on the opposite side of the arguement being denied what is given to other couples, you'd be outraged. But you're not on the opposite side so you're willing to accept and promote them not getting those rights because you are only able to see marriage as it relates to a religious institution. When you're in church, or the privacy of your home, feel free to preach your beliefs on marriage as a religious institution, but when you're dealing with marriage as it relates to govt and politics, recognize that govt has made it another institution in which religion has no place. The Golden Rule : Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Do you want strangers dictating to you the relationship between you and your wife and the benefits marriage affords you?

How is it so hard to see that treating others equally is simply the right thing to do?
Click to expand...

Equality doesn't equal universal rights or BENEFITS for anybody.
 
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