Republicans Belief in Evolution plummets

[Vol8188]

You know, I might be starting to come around to this christianity thing. If the bible is the only thing keeping these nutjobs from stealing my stuff or killing me in cold blood, I'd be willing to say it's doing some good.

What's sad is the people we are speaking to must be supportive of individuals who allow priests to rape their children or who personally drown their own kids, assuming god told them to do so.

How were they supposed to know it was wrong? Only god can teach us morality.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Basically, morality (not wanting to murder an innocent person), can only be achieved via God or the fear of the police?

The bolded makes no sense. Wouldn't the fact that there is no afterlife (to a nonbeliever) increase the "sanctity of life" (inviolability/sacredness) on this planet in the here and now?

Go back and reread the posts. That has not been the argument.

From an atheistic perspective, what room is the for an objective moral law? What in this descriptive universe prescribes an inherent "ought"?

 

[Orange_Crush]

What's sad is the people we are speaking to must be supportive of individuals who allow priests to rape their children or who personally drown their own kids, assuming god told them to do so.

How were they supposed to know it was wrong? Only god can teach us morality.

Logic.

You don't use it.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Basically, morality (not wanting to murder an innocent person), can only be achieved via God or the fear of the police?

The bolded makes no sense. Wouldn't the fact that there is no afterlife (to a nonbeliever) increase the "sanctity of life" (inviolability/sacredness) on this planet in the here and now?

In a universe that produced life by chance, what gives life worth? What prescribes that taking it is objectively wrong?

 

[Orange_Crush]

So the only thing stopping Americans from eating their stepchildren is the Christian god?

Strange, I've never heard of this practice occurring in Hindu or Buddhist countries.

Do you even read the threads you post in?

 

[Vol8188]

Logic.

You don't use it.

Logic? Logic does not define morality, god does. Is that not your perspective?

It's cool to kill sinners, if god tells you to. Is that not what the Old Testament teaches us? So how can you be opposed to suicide bombers.

 

[Orange_Crush]

That would be the social animal instinct.

So, if my instinct is to kill your kids, it's not inherently, objectively wrong?

 

[PKT_VOL]

Do you believe in objective morality?

No.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Logic? Logic does not define morality, god does. Is that not your perspective?

It's cool to kill sinners, if god tells you to. Is that not what the Old Testament teaches us? So how can you be opposed to suicide bombers.

That in no way follows from my premise, therefore it is illogical.

Now, what part of this mechanized, descriptive universe prescribes moral absolutes?

 

[Orange_Crush]

No.

Then nothing is right or wrong?

 

[PKT_VOL]

Go back and reread the posts. That has not been the argument.

His post was pretty straightforward.

From an atheistic perspective, what room is the for an objective moral law? What in this descriptive universe prescribes an inherent "ought"?

Experiences, inspirations, logic, self-interest, etc.; depends on the person.

In a universe that produced life by chance, what gives life worth? What prescribes that taking it is objectively wrong?

Seriously? One would only have to value their own life/consciousness.

 

[SergeantVol]

....and here we go!

What is an atheist? Why is the term needed? What special word do we have for non-alchemists, or non-astrologers? What special namesakes do we have for non-believers in anything else?

To answer the moral question one would have to assume that all "atheists" have some standard dogma they revert back to. The answer could be different for each one, and what they actually believe about the cosmos or anything else could be different. "Atheism" is simply a refusal to deny the obvious. The big moral items like murder, adultry, theft, perjury, etc..basically amount to common sense and have been standard rules for any successful society. Even in ancient Rome, with all the barbaric crucifixations and gladiator games, you couldn't just walk up to a person on the street and kill them, and punishments were carried out for stealing.

I disagree with the entire premise of the question.

IIRC Rome was a polytheistic culture.

 

[PKT_VOL]

Then nothing is right or wrong?

Where do you get that? I don't think another person would share my opinions of right or wrong given situations ad infinitum.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

LOL@ the people using the Old Testament to reference scripture. If you that use this for fodder in your argument actually knew the difference between what the Old and New Testaments meant, then you would realize your ignorance.

I must commend OC for trying to bring logic and understanding to a debate. I quit debating directly with atheists many years ago because all they do is use logical fallacies and accuse the believer of being illogical. They always bring up Old Testament scriptures to use for their arguments when they do not understand what they are saying. It is always ok for an atheist to ask a Christian for evidence of God but as a Christian you cannot ask them to provide evidence for anything.

 

[SergeantVol]

I think Orange Crush is trying to say that morality could possibly be influenced by religion in general.

 

[MercyPercy]

LOL@ the people using the Old Testament to reference scripture. If you that use this for fodder in your argument actually knew the difference between what the Old and New Testaments meant, then you would realize your ignorance.

I must commend OC for trying to bring logic and understanding to a debate. I quit debating directly with atheists many years ago because all they do is use logical fallacies and accuse the believer of being illogical. They always bring up Old Testament scriptures to use for their arguments when they do not understand what they are saying. It is always ok for an atheist to ask a Christian for evidence of God but as a Christian you cannot ask them to provide evidence for anything.

I'll pray for you.






jk :thumbsup:

 

[MercyPercy]

I think Orange Crush is trying to say that morality could possibly be influenced by religion in general.

That isn't what he's saying though. He's saying that all morality inherently comes from the christian god, period.

Which would mean that someone who has never experienced the teachings of jesus could never be a good/moral person.


That's his logic.

 

[Vol8188]

LOL@ the people using the Old Testament to reference scripture. If you that use this for fodder in your argument actually knew the difference between what the Old and New Testaments meant, then you would realize your ignorance.

I must commend OC for trying to bring logic and understanding to a debate. I quit debating directly with atheists many years ago because all they do is use logical fallacies and accuse the believer of being illogical. They always bring up Old Testament scriptures to use for their arguments when they do not understand what they are saying. It is always ok for an atheist to ask a Christian for evidence of God but as a Christian you cannot ask them to provide evidence for anything.

So it doesn't bother you that you "perfect god" screwed up with his first set of rules and then had to sacrifice his son and change all the rules to fix it?

 

[Vol8188]

That isn't what he's saying though. He's saying that all morality inherently comes from the christian god, period.

Which would mean that someone who has never experienced the teachings of jesus could never be a good/moral person.


That's his logic.

Therefore Asians eat there stepchildren.

 

[Septic]

The arguments coming from the non believers in this thread are extremely weak. I mean it's sad. I think the non believers cannot handle the concept of a supreme being ruling over them. Because they know if there is a God, he can squash them like a bug whenever he wants. Also just for the record, atheism is the most illogical religion on the planet.

Atheism is to religion like not playing golf a sport.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Experiences, inspirations, logic, self-interest, etc.; depends on the person.

Then they are basically opinions.

Seriously? One would only have to value their own life/consciousness.

Perhaps my own. Perhaps not. Why should anyone share an opinion that other life is inherently worth anything?

My point is that if right/wrong is relative, it is not right/wrong.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I think Orange Crush is trying to say that morality could possibly be influenced by religion in general.

I am saying that atheists smuggle objective morality in from religion. Either that or they live like sociopaths.

I'll leave you guys alone.

:hi:

 

[Septic]

I was a Christian until about 15. Then I started reading this crap.

Deuteronomy 21 18-21, clearly states that a disobedient child should be stoned. Have you ever actually read the bible? Or do you just go off what your cult leader (I mean pastor) tells you?

He uses the same tired CS Lewis 'mere Christianity' arguments that have been rehashed, whittling away and arguing over semantics.

 

[SergeantVol]

I would venture to say that religion in general has influenced morality since the dawn of man. This would be regardless of religious persuasion.

 

[MercyPercy]

You better watch out,
You better not cry,
Better not pout,
I'm telling you why:
Jesus Christ is coming to town.
He's making a list,
And checking it twice;
Gonna find out
Who's naughty and nice.
Jesus Christ is coming to town.

He sees you when you're sleeping.
He knows when you're awake.
He knows if you've been bad or good,
So be good for goodness sake!
Oh, you better watch out!
You better not cry.
Better not pout,
I'm telling you why:
Jesus Christ is coming to town.
Jesus Christ is coming to town!


A simple christmas song that explains why christians decide to act morally.