Let's Talk About Sin

#226
#226
Vol8188 said:
How is this not the case? And I use my own personnel sense of justice.
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Not being snarky here, but I will challenge you on this. Why should we trust that your personal sense of justice is actually right? If it's just your subjective, personal justice, then why should we care?

I could just as easily say, that according to my personal sense of justice this is perfectly fine.

Again, you are appealing to a logical fallacy. If you want to base you objections on fallacious reasoning, then so be it. You can add that with your own personal justice.
 
#227
#227
Roustabout said:
Not being snarky here, but I will challenge you on this. Why should we trust that your personal sense of justice is actually right? If it's just your subjective, personal justice, then why should we care?

I could just as easily say, that according to my personal sense of justice this is perfectly fine.

Again, you are appealing to a logical fallacy. If you want to base you objections on fallacious reasoning, then so be it. You can add that with your own personal justice.
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How is it a logical fallacy? It can be proven through statistics how the vast majority of people obtain their religious beliefs.

Your god punishes good people for simply being born in the wrong place.
 
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#228
#228
Roustabout said:
Not being snarky here, but I will challenge you on this. Why should we trust that your personal sense of justice is actually right? If it's just your subjective, personal justice, then why should we care?

I could just as easily say, that according to my personal sense of justice this is perfectly fine.

Again, you are appealing to a logical fallacy. If you want to base you objections on fallacious reasoning, then so be it. You can add that with your own personal justice.
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As far as my views on justice, I believe any logical person would agree with my view. In the indoctrinated would disagree.
 
#229
#229
Vol8188 said:
As far as my views on justice, I believe any logical person would agree with my view. In the indoctrinated would disagree.
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Fine. Now all you need to do is account for your system of logic. Where does it exist?
You'd do much better to abandon the rhetoric and the strawmen. You might actually learn something.
 
#230
#230
Roustabout said:
Fine. Now all you need to do is account for your system of logic. Where does it exist?
You'd do much better to abandon the rhetoric and the strawmen. You might actually learn something.
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Do you have any intentions of answering our theological question, or did you get lost on your way to the philosophy forum?

I asked a simple question about your deity. You have failed to answer.
 
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#231
#231
Vol8188 said:
Do you have any intentions of answering our theological question, or did you get lost on your way to the philosophy forum?

I oasked a simple question about your deity. You have failed to answer.
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uhhh, you brought up logic.
No you have made inferences about my faith. I'm not going to answer loaded questions. It is akin to asking, do you still beat your wife?
You are making a judgment. God is unjust. Yet you can't even account for your own justice or logic. Don't try to pawn that off on philosophy.
 
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#232
#232
Roustabout said:
uhhh, you brought up logic.
No you have made inferences about my faith. I'm not going to answer loaded questions. It is akin to asking, do you still beat your wife?
You are making a judgment. God is unjust. Yet you can't even account for your own justice or logic. Don't try to pawn that off on philosophy.
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My justice and logic come from my own experiences and raising, none of which a god is needed to account for. Most likely they are inherited traits for survival.

And my question isn't loaded. It's something anyone of faith has to come to terms with. The vast majority of people never question their faith, never look into converting to Hindu, Hebrew, Muslim, etc.

Yet when asked about the faith of those individuals, they simply say "well they should have accepted Christ". Surely the hypocrisy here is evident.
 
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#233
#233
Vol8188 said:
My justice and logic come from my own experiences and raising, none of which a god is needed to account for. Most likely they are inherited traits for survival.

And my question isn't loaded. It's somethping anyone of faith has to come to termos with. The vast majority of people never question their faith, never look into converting to Hindu, Hebrew, Muslim, etc.

Yet when asked about the faith of those individuals, they simply say "well they should have accepted Christ". Surely the hypocrisy here is evident.
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I'll address this more later. Your objection is in what people say. I don't say that, nor does the Bible I read, so why do you expect me to answer?

My faith doesn't teach that ignorance of the truth is the reason people go to hell.

Oh, and yes your questions are loaded. You question beg and make assumptions. People who really want to learn do not ask such questions.
 
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#234
#234
Roustabout said:
I'll address this more later. Your objection is in what people say. I don't say that, nor does the Bible I read, so why do you expect me to answer?

My faith doesn't teach that ignorance of the truth is the reason people go to hell.
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The bible says that to enter heaven you must accept Christ? Therefore other faiths do not enter heaven. Am I missing something?
 
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#236
#236
Roustabout said:
It says there is no other name by which men must be saved.
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Acts 4:12. I'm familiar. Essentially no other religion (outside of Christianity) is capable of salvation. Because no other religion practices salvation through Christ. I can't see any other way if looking at that.
 
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#238
#238
Vol8188 said:
Acts 4:12. I'm familiar. Essentially no other religion (outside of Christianity) is capable of salvation. Because no other religion practices salvation through Christ. I can't see any other way if looking at that.
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All religions make exclusive claims. That doesn't answer whether those claims are true or not. Regardless you're making assumptions. I'll give you an example. A person jumps out of a plane at 10k feet with no parachute. Why did they die?
 
#239
#239
Roustabout said:
All religions make exclusive claims. That doesn't answer whether those claims are true or not. Regardless you're making assumptions. I'll give you an example. A person jumps out of a plane at 10k feet with no parachute. Why did they die?
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All religions do not make such claims. Not all religions believe in salvation through their own deity. Some believe in salvation through works. Others don't even believe in salvation.

What assumptions have it made?
 
#240
#240
Vol8188 said:
All religions do not make such claims. Not all religions believe in salvation through their own deity. Some believe in salvation through works. Others don't even believe in salvation.

What assumptions have it made?
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All religions make exlcusive claims. All of them. If you want to start another thread, I'd be happy to discuss with you. You have made several assumptions about what I believe. You've also made assumptions about justice and logic with no way to account for them. In a material world, I'd like for you to account for the metaphysical laws of logic, which govern the way we think. You say expereince and raising. But, I'm assuming that you believe your were raised RIGHT. Right implies there is a wrong way to be raised and to think. Yet, you have not accounted for any objective standard by which to measure this. Otherwise it's your preference over someone elses. But you aren't arguing that. You are inferring that God (assuming He exist) would be objectively wrong to send someone to Hell for being born in the wrong place.

And you didn't answer my question. A person jumps out of a plane at 10k feet with no parachute. Why did they die?
 
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#243
#243
Roustabout said:
Just don't be so open minded your brain falls out. I used to read a lot of Spurgeon. What I find is that we often give these men's writings more credence than the Bible they are commenting on.
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Amen.... good statement ........
 
#244
#244
Roustabout said:
All religions make exlcusive claims. All of them. If you want to start another thread, I'd be happy to discuss with you. You have made several assumptions about what I believe. You've also made assumptions about justice and logic with no way to account for them. In a material world, I'd like for you to account for the metaphysical laws of logic, which govern the way we think. You say expereince and raising. But, I'm assuming that you believe your were raised RIGHT. Right implies there is a wrong way to be raised and to think. Yet, you have not accounted for any objective standard by which to measure this. Otherwise it's your preference over someone elses. But you aren't arguing that. You are inferring that God (assuming He exist) would be objectively wrong to send someone to Hell for being born in the wrong place.

And you didn't answer my question. A person jumps out of a plane at 10k feet with no parachute. Why did they die?
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Are you capable of staying on topic and responding in less than 1 million words?

And not all religions make exclusivity claims. Any religion that believes in either option A, salvation through deeds, or B no salvation at all, would have no need to make exclusivity claims. These religions either believe that all people who do what is right are saved, or that no afterlife exists. Hinduism is a great example of a religion that does teach exclusivity. It's also twice as old as most Christians believe the earth to be.
 
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#246
#246
Roustabout said:
And in that discourse, Jesus referred to Himself as the truth. So, here is a question for you. Does truth exist? If so, does knowing the truth matter where you are born?
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He's the way too. Does owning a map or gps guarantee my salvation?
 
#247
#247
Roustabout said:
uhhh, you brought up logic.
No you have made inferences about my faith. I'm not going to answer loaded questions. It is akin to asking, do you still beat your wife?
You are making a judgment. God is unjust. Yet you can't even account for your own justice or logic. Don't try to pawn that off on philosophy.
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I'm still interested in what I have inferred about your faith? Since you took it on yourself to call me out, I assumed you were a Christian. I also assumed you believed in the bible. Is that too much?
 
#249
#249
Roustabout said:
This is just a patronizing statement. You haven't answered my question, which is directly related to your objection.
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Nor did you answer any of mine. And I haven't answered your question because your back to philosophy again. With you "what is truth" question. That's not what I'm hear to debate.

But it is adorable that you have to jump to such absurd analogies to try and justify your illogical religious beliefs.
 
#250
#250
Vol8188 said:
I'm still interested in what I have inferred about your faith? Since you took it on yourself to call me out, I assumed you were a Christian. I also assumed you believed in the bible. Is that too much?
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Called you out?
I've already sited examples of your inferences. I am a Christian and I believe the bible. That doesn't change the errant nature of your questioning. Your loaded questions, or your objection being a genetic fallacy. I don't expect you to admit this, so what's the point?
 
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