Some of you people just don't get it

#76
#76
ReelfootVol said:
I still think Butch will get it done, IN SPITE OF HIS DEFENSIVE COORDINATOR !!!!
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Sal was in the same position with fans (including me) last year at about this same time IN HIS FIRST YEAR HERE. Some want to criticize Jancek (including me) and people get bent out of shape. CBJ will HAVE to make personnel changes if he's gonna last at UT, unless a miracle happens, which i dont see. Everybody likes CBJ for the most part, but d*** it man, upgrade your staff.
 
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#77
#77
checkerboards09 said:
Sal was in the same position with fans (including me) last year at about this same time IN HIS FIRST YEAR HERE. Some want to criticize Jancek (including me) and people get bent out of shape. CBJ will HAVE to make personnel changes if he's gonna last at UT, unless a miracle happens, which i dont see. Everybody likes CBJ for the most part, but d*** it man, upgrade your staff.
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I said in another thread that Jancek won't see the end of Jones' tenure here if Butch is smart

The Jancek experiment didn't work at Georgia with a crap load of talent

That year, Georgia lost to Kentucky at home
 
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#78
#78
Dooley let Jim Chaney get his job by keeping him as OC. Hope Butch Jones does not let Jancek cost him his job. Just sayin.........
 
#79
#79
Gandalf said:
Recruits are definitely attracted to playing time but only if its going to be in a winning program No top recruit is going to come just because he will get to play on a crappy team. So it would seem that what the recruits are seeing is that they will get playing time on a team that will become a powerhouse in 2 years time.
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Ole Miss says hi.
 
#80
#80
Gandalf said:
Our defense isnt worse - we are playing better teams! Do you seriously believe that Vandy is going to smoke us 41-18 like last year? We do need to keep improving but hate to tell you this - most improvement comes in the offseason not during games. Thats when guys learn the system and get in the weight room. The winning (or losing) is 80% done before you ever step foot on the field. Once you are in the game, then come the other 20% that make the difference between the good and the great. But we need time just to get the training in to become good.
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I'm all on the Butch train but Vandy just went into the Swamp and came out with a win against a really good defense. Yes, yes I do expect Vandy to beat us. And it isn't blasphemy to say so. This team isn't good (presently) and our schemes don't really mask our faults. :ermm:

Some folks are gonna hate me for saying it but this is absolutely "Year Zero." Dooley's year zero should've had us beating LSU but incompetence prevailed. At least Butch sealed the deal against USC.
 
#81
#81
CountVolcula said:
I said in another thread that Jancek won't see the end of Jones' tenure here if Butch is smart

The Jancek experiment didn't work at Georgia with a crap load of talent

That year, Georgia lost to Kentucky at home
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And I fully agree, he absolutely SHOULDN'T. What gets me is, last year it was ALL Sal's fault. Now that CBJ and staff are here, we're slow and have no talent. So which is it? You know? You can't have it both ways.
 
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#82
#82
:good!:
Sharriscgcs said:
Agree 100%....











Got to be realistic! I knew that if we went 6-6 it would be a decent year and if it was 7-5 even better.






However you are about to be burned to the ground by some of VN's finest :drive2:
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#84
#84
Voldemonium said:
I'm all on the Butch train but Vandy just went into the Swamp and came out with a win against a really good defense. Yes, yes I do expect Vandy to beat us. And it isn't blasphemy to say so. This team isn't good (presently) and our schemes don't really mask our faults. :ermm:
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Vandy started 4 drives inside the Florida 25. Florida threw three very costly ints and one fumble.

Florida's D played fine, as usual their offense lost it for them.

We will destroy Vandy.....:rock:
 
#86
#86
daj2576 said:
You and I have agreed more often than not, but you have fallen off the deep end lately. I get it, this has been frustrating.

There are too many things that I view as wrong with some of the stuff that you said to hit them all, but let me hit the high points.

You say that huge improvement is expected year one and site Bama under Saban. If memory serves, Bama's regular season record the year before Saban was 6-6. Saban's first regular season was 6-6. I fail to see the huge gains when the only difference, besides an embarrassing loss to La-Monroe (worse than any of our thumping to RANKED opponents) is a bowl win. So one win to you is huge gains? Butch still has the time and talent to improve over last year by at least one game, not counting a bowl.

As you and I know, the only team that we have lost to this year with less talent is Mizzou. Mizzou is doing very well this year, an over performance. It isn't like we are the only team to have lost to Mizzou as they have only lost one game.

As far as your comments on Florida, we agree to a point. We both recognize that is a very talented team confronted with crippling injuries and a sub - par coach. What has happened to them since we played has been spectacular. That doesn't mean that they began as less talented. It means, like Mizzou, something is modifying their talent. You can't site Mizzou as having less talent without also citing Bama, Auburn, Florida and Georgia as having more.

At worst, we are under performing by one game. One game!!! Against a top ten team who has found a way to minimize talent differentials.

You cite Jones' record at Cincy, then the record of opponents. Be fair and cite that he beat Louisville 2 of 3 times (the top of that conference), Recognize also that his first year there he won 4 games while installing his system. After that he over performed based on talent predictions by three games a year WHILE improving his recruiting.

Like I said to begin with, I generally find you reasonable and intelligent. That is rare here. But since Mizzou you seem to have gone off the deep end. It's like you bet your mortgage that UT would win. Go easy. If in three weeks we don't have a record that puts us in position to go bowling, then let's discuss what can be done. Until then...go vols!

Edit: phone is auto - correcting the ish out of me. Sorry for the issues with cite/site and others.
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Excellent post. One thing I would like to address. CBJ's 1st year being compared to Saban's 1st year.
BEFORE Saban arrived at Bama:
1991-1994 Browns DC
1995-1999 Mich St HC
2000-2004 LSU HC/ Nat Champs
2005-2006 Dolphin HC
2007- ALA HC
Coach Saban had MUCH more experience with teams of National relevance than CBJ.
CBJ will get us to SEC Champs, but it will take 3-4 years to get to SEC East champs. Maybe year 5-6 to SEC Champs.
CBJ just doesn't have the experience to get us there any quicker regardless of how many Top 5 signing classes we might have under CBJ.
I am all vol 100%, but I have to give Saban his due. He is a "once in a lifetime" hire. I don't want Vol fans to think in 3 years CBJ will bring is a national championship like Saban did (2009 champs).
 
#87
#87
BanditVol said:
Vandy started 4 drives inside the Florida 25. Florida threw three very costly ints and one fumble.

Florida's D played fine, as usual their offense lost it for them.

We will destroy Vandy.....:rock:
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Florida is a much more depleted team than when we played them. Also Vandys offense is nothing really. We will run it down their throat.
 
#88
#88
To the OP. I am ok with losing with maximum effort. What I had a problem with Saturday was the lack of effort by some of our players. One example was on kick offs. Our wedge guys on kickoff returns actually ran past some players without blocking them. The reason we couldn't return the ball out past the 20 is because we have guys who don't block. It is one thing to get out ran, or run over, but to just loaf or fail to try is unacceptable.
Butch is only working with about 8 guys on any given play that are giving 100% effort. I'm not sure he has any choice but to live with it. Obviously if he could change it he would. I didn't expect us to win, but I did expect to see guys sprinting to the ball after spending over $1200 for the weekend.
I hope you guys are right about the Vandy game, because we are making the trip again.
 
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#89
#89
checkerboards09 said:
And I fully agree, he absolutely SHOULDN'T. What gets me is, last year it was ALL Sal's fault. Now that CBJ and staff are here, we're slow and have no talent. So which is it? You know? You can't have it both ways.
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I think it was 60/40 Sal and Dooleys fault. I agree with you though, Jancek should not be the DC.
 
#90
#90
Gandalf said:
I go away for the weekend, knowing that Auburn is going to dominate on Saturday (but secretly hoping for an upset). I come back and its as if the friggen sky is falling because we lost to yet another top 10 team. We are doing the right things, you silly fans however act like turning a totally crappy program into a legendary one can be done near instantaneously and on willpower alone. First you start drinking koolaid and thinking we can "dominate" (not just beat) top 10 teams, then run around like headless chickens and threaten to commit ritual fan suicide because we got owned as expected. I see some of you idiots even saying KY is going to own us for sure.

NEWSFLASH to some of you people - UT IS NOT A TOP 10 TEAM THIS YEAR no matter who is coaching it. Considering this schedule and the lack of depth we have at almost any position, its amazing we have done what we have done so far.

Now I know we all hoped Coach Jones would make some major improvements this year in spite of the garbage heap he was given and the nations most brutal schedule. IMHO he has done so. Out of 10 games so far, 5 have been Top 10 teams and 2 more have been Top 20. Astonishingly, we actually pulled off an upset of a #11 team and allllllmost did so for a #6. But we arent going to upset many or we would actually BE a top 10 team.

I am happy with seeing our offense continue to grow and see that we have some really decent possibilities next year at QB and receivers who can get open even if they havent yet learned to catch the ball. Defense needs some help but then its harder to gauge when they are on the field the whole game against top teams with no replacements. Recruiting is phenomenal, considering our past couple of years.

Now Vandy is not going to be candy this year and only has KY between us and game day but with us getting some rest after playing the friggen giant schedule I think we should be able to be up 3-7 against them and beat KY by 14. That is a real test for us but as decent as Vandy is this year, I think its going to seem like running downhill after what we have been through the last 3 weeks.

At the beginning of the year, any clear eyed analyst would be very happy with the prospect of 6-6 and one big upset. Of course, we thought Auburn would be a walkover this year and nope, even they kickass. So considering - if we go 6-6 this year and head to a bowl game, give all the true freshmen and people time to actually learn new systems, recruit like we are doing right now - in 2-3 years this team WILL be a top 10 team again and a very solid program. Jones is not Dooley part Deux (he has been a winner on his own and not just the son of one). Until then, grow the heck up and temper your expectations with some reality.
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You're right, we're all a bunch of idiots. I, like most other Vols fans, clearly had us pegged to win the SEC ... 12-1 after the SEC championship blowout win vs Bama. My expectations were just a little too high I guess.

I clearly should've expected 4 blowout losses of biblical proportions vs the best teams on our schedule.... should've known the cumulative score would be in the 190-50 range, avg score in the 47-12 neighborhood.

How did I not see the 778 all purpose yards from Auburn on the horizon, the NCAA record 44.5 yds per special teams return given up this week, the school record 444 rushing yds given up, the 16 offensive Pts vs Auburn, the 3 Pts vs Mizzou.... You're absolutely right.... some of "us people" are just idiots. Should've checked with you cause you, in all your glorious condescension would've surely set us all straight.
 
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#91
#91
KBVol said:
You're right, we're all a bunch of idiots. I, like most other Vols fans, clearly had us pegged to win the SEC ... 12-1 after the SEC championship blowout win vs Bama. My expectations were just a little too high I guess.

I clearly should've expected 4 blowout losses of biblical proportions vs the best teams on our schedule.... should've known the cumulative score would be in the 190-50 range, avg score in the 47-12 neighborhood.

How did I not see the 778 all purpose yards from Auburn on the horizon, the NCAA record 44.5 yds per special teams return given up this week, the school record 444 rushing yds given up, the 16 offensive Pts vs Auburn, the 3 Pts vs Mizzou.... You're absolutely right.... some of "us people" are just idiots. Should've checked with you cause you, in all your glorious condescension would've surely set us all straight.
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well said
 
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#92
#92
Gandalf said:
Our defense isnt worse - we are playing better teams! Do you seriously believe that Vandy is going to smoke us 41-18 like last year? We do need to keep improving but hate to tell you this - most improvement comes in the offseason not during games. Thats when guys learn the system and get in the weight room. The winning (or losing) is 80% done before you ever step foot on the field. Once you are in the game, then come the other 20% that make the difference between the good and the great. But we need time just to get the training in to become good.
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Yes, unfortunately. If we win I'll be very happy that we can get to a bowl game. If we don't, will any of you hold CBJ accountable?
 
#93
#93
Many people are acting like we accomplished something by just showing up to play our tough schedule. Anyone can show up for a game, but only a special breed actually keeps fighting when the chips are down. Butch is right. This is a measuring stick to see where we are at mentally and physically. All the man can do is get back at it tomorrow and the next day until more of these guys decide they are going to give maximum effort on every play. We are about 75% there on any given play.
This team isn't a good team, because not every player on the field gives maximum effort on each play.
 
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#94
#94
jkleno said:
Excellent post. One thing I would like to address. CBJ's 1st year being compared to Saban's 1st year.
BEFORE Saban arrived at Bama:
1991-1994 Browns DC
1995-1999 Mich St HC
2000-2004 LSU HC/ Nat Champs
2005-2006 Dolphin HC
2007- ALA HC
Coach Saban had MUCH more experience with teams of National relevance than CBJ.
CBJ will get us to SEC Champs, but it will take 3-4 years to get to SEC East champs. Maybe year 5-6 to SEC Champs.
CBJ just doesn't have the experience to get us there any quicker regardless of how many Top 5 signing classes we might have under CBJ.
I am all vol 100%, but I have to give Saban his due. He is a "once in a lifetime" hire. I don't want Vol fans to think in 3 years CBJ will bring is a national championship like Saban did (2009 champs).
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Interesting points, but I am confused. With all of that experience he (Saban) could only take a team to 6-6 his first year at Bama, losing the last 4 of the season, including an embarrassment to La-Monroe?

I am not an expert in NFL football, but I believe Saban's time at the Dolphins would be a time that most would want to leave off of their resume'. From what I can see, Saban's only relevant experience is his time at MSU, LSU and then Bama and even that couldn't help him do much more than Jones is doing here.

I don't like comparing the two, but I think if you believe that Saban was a once in a lifetime hire, and THAT is all he could do his first year, that Jones should get even more slack.

Maybe I am wrong
 
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#98
#98
daj2576 said:
Interesting points, but I am confused. With all of that experience he (Saban) could only take a team to 6-6 his first year at Bama, losing the last 4 of the season, including an embarrassment to La-Monroe?

I am not an expert in NFL football, but I believe Saban's time at the Dolphins would be a time that most would want to leave off of their resume'. From what I can see, Saban's only relevant experience is his time at MSU, LSU and then Bama and even that couldn't help him do much more than Jones is doing here.

I don't like comparing the two, but I think if you believe that Saban was a once in a lifetime hire, and THAT is all he could do his first year, that Jones should get even more slack.

Maybe I am wrong
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compare a proven SEC Champion to an unproven SEC head coach? hmmm
 
#99
#99
daj2576 said:
Interesting points, but I am confused. With all of that experience he (Saban) could only take a team to 6-6 his first year at Bama, losing the last 4 of the season, including an embarrassment to La-Monroe?

I am not an expert in NFL football, but I believe Saban's time at the Dolphins would be a time that most would want to leave off of their resume'. From what I can see, Saban's only relevant experience is his time at MSU, LSU and then Bama and even that couldn't help him do much more than Jones is doing here.

I don't like comparing the two, but I think if you believe that Saban was a once in a lifetime hire, and THAT is all he could do his first year, that Jones should get even more slack.

Maybe I am wrong
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Your logic is sound to this point, at the first year mark. I understand the point youre making.

Lets see if CBJ can win 4 NCs in a 5 year period... something I believe we can say Saban has done here in a couple of months. Not to mention the phenomenal success he had at his first SEC coaching gig at LSU. He finished his time there with a National Championship there as well iirc.

Saban is undoubtedly a hall of fame coach, an all time great IMHO. No doubt we'll say the same about Butch if he can duplicate Saban's success.
 
#100
#100
daj2576 said:
Interesting points, but I am confused. With all of that experience he (Saban) could only take a team to 6-6 his first year at Bama, losing the last 4 of the season, including an embarrassment to La-Monroe?

I am not an expert in NFL football, but I believe Saban's time at the Dolphins would be a time that most would want to leave off of their resume'. From what I can see, Saban's only relevant experience is his time at MSU, LSU and then Bama and even that couldn't help him do much more than Jones is doing here.

I don't like comparing the two, but I think if you believe that Saban was a once in a lifetime hire, and THAT is all he could do his first year, that Jones should get even more slack.

Maybe I am wrong
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I like the Dolphin point you made. I guess what I am trying to state is that Saban got Bama to National Champions in 3 short years. He inherited a huge pile of "pooh" very similar to CBJ> Dooley=Mike Shula/ Price (who never even coached a game)/ Dubose. I don't think Vol fans should be disappointed if it takes CBJ longer to get us back to SEC East champs and eventual SEC champs. And just because CBJ might outdo Saban in year one (loss to Monroe), I wouldn't be thinking national champs in 3 years.
 
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