Everything That's Wrong With America

#6
#6
I thought it was going to be a pic of congress and the prez when I opened the thread.
 
#7
#7
No summary?

I really hope you read it. It's basically a summary of how the college experience and the liberal arts curriculum has been sold out to modern conceptions of racial grievance, gender identity, social justice, globalism, and multiculturalism. Essentially, colleges and universities are bastions of radical liberalism.
 
#8
#8
ONE liberal arts college?

And yet virtually every college and university has a "studies" concentration (Women's, Gender, Sexuality, Africana, etc.). The authors touch on the fact that Bowdoin is representative of a larger problem in higher education.
 
#9
#9
I really hope you read it. It's basically a summary of how the college experience and the liberal arts curriculum has been sold out to modern conceptions of racial grievance, gender identity, social justice, globalism, and multiculturalism. Essentially, colleges and universities are bastions of radical liberalism.

I'm not sure I am going to get this from a study of a school that enrolls only 1,700 students. I read the foreward and I doubt that I would be shocked or surprised at what is said in the following 350 pages.

That said, being that this is a tiny liberal arts school of 1,700, I have a hard time seeing this as "Everything That's Wrong With America". You want to tell me that the undergraduate programs at Harvard, Bowdoin, Yale, Princeton, etc. are worthless? Go for it; I readily assent to such assertions.

A bigger problem in America is the belief that everyone needs a college degree, in my opinion.
 
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#11
#11
Before I read it, I would like to know how does one join the National Association of Scholars? Do they recruit or is it a self selection process?
 
#12
#12
I'm not sure I am going to get this from a study of a school that enrolls only 1,700 students. I read the foreward and I doubt that I would be shocked or surprised at what is said in the following 350 pages.

That said, being that this is a tiny liberal arts school of 1,700, I have a hard time seeing this as "Everything That's Wrong With America". You want to tell me that the undergraduate programs at Harvard, Bowdoin, Yale, Princeton, etc. are worthless? Go for it; I readily assent to such assertions.

A bigger problem in America is the belief that everyone needs a college degree, in my opinion.

At least you and I agree that everyone doesn't need a college degree. Moreover, you're right about the worthlessness of the other so-called elite schools. Having grown up in Princeton, I can attest to the stupidity of their undergraduate population.
 
#13
#13
I'm not sure I am going to get this from a study of a school that enrolls only 1,700 students. I read the foreward and I doubt that I would be shocked or surprised at what is said in the following 350 pages.

That said, being that this is a tiny liberal arts school of 1,700, I have a hard time seeing this as "Everything That's Wrong With America". You want to tell me that the undergraduate programs at Harvard, Bowdoin, Yale, Princeton, etc. are worthless? Go for it; I readily assent to such assertions.

A bigger problem in America is the belief that everyone needs a college degree, in my opinion.

Or even a traditional high school education. My two oldest have college degrees in Communications and Psychology. The oldest spent a year working in a TV station--a job she could have had after high school, and now teaches English in Japan. #2 is now a 2LT in the Air Force learning how to control air space.

Next in line are the two teen aged boys, both in the county tech school. What we used to call VoTech now does college prep in addition to technical training. One boy will come out with his EMT Certification, Armed Guard License and Fire Fighter Apprentiship. Now, since he is is a 5'11" 240 Soph who runs a 4.7 40 we're expecting him to play football and earn a scholarship somewhere, but if he didn't he could go to work immediately. The other, also a Soph, has the chance to earn his Microsoft A+ and a couple of other IT/Networking certificates and is planning to use those to work his way through college. To me, coming out of high school with an actual skill in addition to college prep is the way all high schools should go.
 
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#16
#16
And yet virtually every college and university has a "studies" concentration (Women's, Gender, Sexuality, Africana, etc.). The authors touch on the fact that Bowdoin is representative of a larger problem in higher education.

A college is a business, businesses offer goods and services that customers want. I'd assume that a conservative Republican like yourself would understand that. No one is forcing those kids to take women's studies or gender studies, are they?
 
#18
#18
The thread is full of fail.

Liberal arts classes at a small liberal arts school is the least of "everything that's wrong with America".
 
#19
#19
A college is a business, businesses offer goods and services that customers want. I'd assume that a conservative Republican like yourself would understand that. No one is forcing those kids to take women's studies or gender studies, are they?

The piece deals with the absence of common core standards. They have been replaced with narrowly focused themes that have nothing to do with a liberal education in any true sense of the word. Many don't understand that this service is overpriced hogwash. If you'd bother to read it, you'd see that it's geared toward parents and those considering shelling out 56K for this kind of "education." UT is failing its students at 9K.

Instead of posting preconceived notions about what it might say, you should read it.

P.S. I'm not a Republican.
 
#20
#20
The thread is full of fail.

Liberal arts classes at a small liberal arts school is the least of "everything that's wrong with America".

Amazingly I post a study, ask people to read it, and then comment. Apparently no one bothered to see what it actually says. The study focuses on Bowdoin, but it's a symptom of a much larger problem in higher education. It touches on much more than curriculum. I'd read it before I gave an opinion. That's something I learned back in college.
 
#21
#21
Amazingly I post a study, ask people to read it, and then comment. Apparently no one bothered to see what it actually says. The study focuses on Bowdoin, but it's a symptom of a much larger problem in higher education. It touches on much more than curriculum. I'd read it before I gave an opinion. That's something I learned back in college.

If it wasn't 300 pages, I'd read it. If you want to get your message across in considerably less amount of space/time than 300 pages, I'll be all ears.

Complaining about a certain segment of liberal arts education is one thing. Trying to parlay that into the "much larger problem of higher education", let alone "everything that's wrong with America" is utterly absurd.
 
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#22
#22
Here is what I am willing to grant:
1. "Studies" majors and concentrations are not always focused on future career options (and, neither are plenty of majors and concentrations).
2. Elective courses (i.e., courses that are not specifically required in order to obtain any certain degree) quite often focus on topics and materials that are not focused on future career options.
3. As enrollments-driven institutions, private colleges and universities (to include departments within these universities) must constantly market in order to recruit and retain students. Some of this marketing is done by offering "interesting" elective courses.
3'. Some of this "retention" results in grade inflation.

Now, the arguments in defense of 1 through 3 are easy: private universities can exist for whatever reason they so desire (unlike public universities who are, in theory, controlled by the will and mandate of the taxpayers). They do not have to be focused on future career opportunities; and, so long as students continue to attend and pay, they can do as they please.

The argument in defense of 3a is, at least from my perspective, a necessary consequence of the state of education in America. Most individuals graduating from high school are not equipped with the tools to succeed, based solely on merit, in their first year or two in college. Kids cannot put together papers; they cannot do simply math; they know little to nothing about how science actually works. Quite often they have expansive vocabularies, yet do not know how to use the words. They know how to write out equations, but they cannot tell you what they mean. They have memorized the Periodical Table of Elements, but cannot tell you how it is that elements ought to react with each other. And, if you want to speak about history with some of these kids, just forget about it. The education mill in America produces kids that are capable of memorizing a vast quantity of data (and data-sets), without providing them with the tools to analyze this data critically. If one graded a freshman paper genuinely and honestly according to actual merit, one would fail the vast majority of freshman. This puts the academy in a bind: do they fail the majority of their incoming students? First, this seems unfair to the students; as, it is not entirely their fault that they do not possess these skill sets. Second, the academy loses the money it needs to function. Third, the academy does not help these kids by failing them and tossing them out. Thus, the academy is stuck trying to motivate these kids through comments and handing them C's instead of F's, so that they can continue to work with the kid. The other option seems, to me, to offer more remedial courses to freshman and extend undergraduate to five and six years (or, simply, teach and improve along the way, hoping that by the time most graduate, they will possess respectable skill sets...which, I think, is failing).

Personally, I think you ought to just fail the kid (but, I, unlike most in America, am not a utilitarian nor a consequentialist). I failed my first essay at West Point; I failed my first exam at West Point. It was eye-opening and I realized that I needed to seek out extra help and put in extra effort to develop those skills that I lacked. Of course, this was also not crushing, since, as I was told before entering West Point, no one is ever going to ask about your GPA at West Point. That is not true for other institutions; thus, there may be a problem of fairness if one institution opts to fail a bunch of their freshman. Of course, I do not care about fairness.
 
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#23
#23
Here is what I am willing to grant:
1. "Studies" majors and concentrations are not always focused on future career options (and, neither are plenty of majors and concentrations).
2. Elective courses (i.e., courses that are not specifically required in order to obtain any certain degree) quite often focus on topics and materials that are not focused on future career options.
3. As enrollments-driven institutions, private colleges and universities (to include departments within these universities) must constantly market in order to recruit and retain students. Some of this marketing is done by offering "interesting" elective courses.
3'. Some of this "retention" results in grade inflation.

Now, the arguments in defense of 1 through 3 are easy: private universities can exist for whatever reason they so desire (unlike public universities who are, in theory, controlled by the will and mandate of the taxpayers). They do not have to be focused on future career opportunities; and, so long as students continue to attend and pay, they can do as they please.

The argument in defense of 3a is, at least from my perspective, a necessary consequence of the state of education in America. Most individuals graduating from high school are not equipped with the tools to succeed, based solely on merit, in their first year or two in college. Kids cannot put together papers; they cannot do simply math; they know little to nothing about how science actually works. Quite often they have expansive vocabularies, yet do not know how to use the words. They know how to write out equations, but they cannot tell you what they mean. They have memorized the Periodical Table of Elements, but cannot tell you how it is that elements ought to react with each other. And, if you want to speak about history with some of these kids, just forget about it. The education mill in America produces kids that are capable of memorizing a vast quantity of data (and data-sets), without providing them with the tools to analyze this data critically. If one graded a freshman paper genuinely and honestly according to actual merit, one would fail the vast majority of freshman. This puts the academy in a bind: do they fail the majority of their incoming students? First, this seems unfair to the students; as, it is not entirely their fault that they do not possess these skill sets. Second, the academy loses the money it needs to function. Third, the academy does not help these kids by failing them and tossing them out. Thus, the academy is stuck trying to motivate these kids through comments and handing them C's instead of F's, so that they can continue to work with the kid. The other option seems, to me, to offer more remedial courses to freshman and extend undergraduate to five and six years (or, simply, teach and improve along the way, hoping that by the time most graduate, they will possess respectable skill sets...which, I think, is failing).

Personally, I think you ought to just fail the kid (but, I, unlike most in America, am not a utilitarian nor a consequentialist). I failed my first essay at West Point; I failed my first exam at West Point. It was eye-opening and I realized that I needed to seek out extra help and put in extra effort to develop those skills that I lacked. Of course, this was also not crushing, since, as I was told before entering West Point, no one is ever going to ask about your GPA at West Point. That is not true for other institutions; thus, there may be a problem of fairness if one institution opts to fail a bunch of their freshman. Of course, I do not care about fairness.

I agree with all this.

1) The problem is with grade school education. Until that is fixed, the other problems won't be fixed. Edit: it is a culture problem which manifests itself as a grade school problem.

2) I was amazed at how god-awful the other papers were in my English 101 class during peer review. My best friend and I, both of us graduated from one of the best high schools in Georgia, were appalled at what we saw. It was so bad that I didn't even both trying to "correct" that paper; I would have to rewrite the paper from the ground up (like I do with my sister). We would just give it back with minor corrections and try not to laugh when they asked what we thought.
 
#24
#24
I agree with all this.

1) The problem is with grade school education. Until that is fixed, the other problems won't be fixed. Edit: it is a culture problem which manifests itself as a grade school problem.

2) I was amazed at how god-awful the other papers were in my English 101 class during peer review. My best friend and I, both of us graduated from one of the best high schools in Georgia, were appalled at what we saw. It was so bad that I didn't even both trying to "correct" that paper; I would have to rewrite the paper from the ground up (like I do with my sister). We would just give it back with minor corrections and try not to laugh when they asked what we thought.

A friend of mine, second year at CC, sent me a paper to revise last week. It was 12am and I told it was utter crap and then I rewrote it. What should have been an F paper was turned into an A+. I say should have because somehow she's passing the class and I can only assume her previous papers had been that bad.
 
#25
#25
A friend of mine, second year at CC, sent me a paper to revise last week. It was 12am and I told it was utter crap and then I rewrote it. What should have been an F paper was turned into an A+. I say should have because somehow she's passing the class and I can only assume her previous papers had been that bad.

I blame this on primary education. Writing a paper is easy if you handrail it, but it will not necessarily be flowery and poetic. Instead of teaching kids how to construct an argument (because, yes, an essay is an argument), "language arts" courses are focused on the artistic side of writing. But, while anybody can grab a ruler and draw house, not everyone can simply sit down and draw a beautiful cottage (only the artist can). So, we have a bunch of non-artists who have not been taught how to grab the ruler and simply draw the meager house, but the house that works.

Never once when I was growing up was I taught that the standard five paragraph paper was syllogistic: introduction and thesis, major premise, minor premise, logical entailment of the two premises, and conclusion. Instead you are taught: introduction, point and supporting evidence, another point and supporting evidence, and another point and supporting evidence, and conclusion. It's bull**** and provides almost nothing for the student (and, absolutely nothing for the reader).

For those on here that have children that are learning to write papers, sit them down and teach them how to properly do so. For example:

This paper will argue that Socrates was wise. Many assert that Socrates was not wise, but they are wrong because all philosophers are wise and Socrates was a philosopher. Thus, Socrates was wise.
All philosophers are wise. Philosophy is the search for wisdom and this paper posits that to even search for wisdom one must already be wise. As only the wise man would forego searching for other things in order to pursue wisdom.
Socrates was a philosopher. Socrates lived in Greece in the fifth century BCE and was renown throughout the Peloponnese as a great philosopher. In fact, Socrates even trained the philosopher Plato, who in turn trained the philosopher Aristotle. It would be absurd to think a non-philosopher can train such amazing philosophers.
Socrates is wise. As was stated above, all philosophers are wise and Socrates was a philosopher. Thus, Socrates must have been wise.
In conclusion, this paper has demonstrated that Socrates was wise and has refuted the objections from the critics.

That is how children need to be taught how to write. If your child is not being taught in such a manner, you need to either work with them on your own or find someone to work with them.
 
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