Another Priest Bites the Dust

[Gramps]

But the Christian God and Jewish God should be the same, the God of Abraham. They are not. Why?

They are the same God. The God of Abraham. The Christians view Christ as the messiah prophesied in the Old Testament. The Jews do not believe Jesus Christ was the messiah, thus the Jews do not follow the NT.

 

[Gramps]

The Baptist minister at a church I visited a lot as a kid was busted for making kids shoot child porn. You never hear those stories, though.

Yes you hear of these stories. There are bad people in all religions. The difference being the Baptist do not pay out millions of dollars and then relocate that pastor to another church.

 

[Panthro]

Yes you hear of these stories. There are bad people in all religions. The difference being the Baptist do not pay out millions of dollars and then relocate that pastor to another church.

Did you guys even read the story? The Cardinal is alleged to have hit on Priests. You honestly think this would be a story around the world if a protestant minister might have made advances at other grown men?

 

[Gramps]

If your whole religion is based on men who are "inspired" by God, then the Bible is no more holy/pious than those councils or any other man who is "inspired" by God.

The Bible was written by men that walked with Christ or those that helped establish the Christian Church.

The councils of the CC are setup similar to a board meeting and deciding what is and what is not.

Big difference PKT.

 

[Gramps]

Catholic Church does not hold to sola fidelis. Non-Christians can go to heaven according to the Church.

another error by the CC.

 

[Gramps]

And, there are also Church Doctors who have professed that only diabolically evil beings end up in hell and that there are no diabolically evil beings. Thus, there are no souls in hell.

Another error by the CC.

 

[bamacheats]

They are the same God. The God of Abraham. The Christians view Christ as the messiah prophesied in the Old Testament. The Jews do not believe Jesus Christ was the messiah, thus the Jews do not follow the NT.

No they are not. Christians worship a trinity, Jews worship a deity.

 

[Gramps]

But they do teach purgatory, (which is a money grab, and hellfire.) Hard to believe in a God that loves unconditionally but still finds a way to set people on fire.

Another error that was made up at one of the CC councils..

Where does the money go ?

 

[therealUT]

The Bible was written by men that walked with Christ or those that helped establish the Christian Church.

This depends on your historical interpretation of the writings of the Gospels. Many Protestant churches hold the notion that the Gospel authors personally knew Jesus; the Catholic Church does not subscribe to such a theory.

The councils of the CC are setup similar to a board meeting and deciding what is and what is not.

Big difference PKT.

The early councils of the Catholic Church were much more focused on reason and natural law and early Christian traditions; they were much less focused on scripture. In fact, they selected the texts that they felt demonstrated many of their beliefs in compiling the bible; their beliefs, however, were already established prior to the compiling of the bible.

 

[bamacheats]

Did you guys even read the story? The Cardinal is alleged to have hit on Priests. You honestly think this would be a story around the world if a protestant minister might have made advances at other grown men?

No.

 

[rjd970]

Yea. It's called the mystery of faith. God gave us puzzle pieces, and the bible has many pieces. Unfortunately some pieces are missing. That's why God gave us the ability to reason so we could come up with some of our own ideas on how to run a church

If He wanted us to be robots and follow one thing, he would have done exactly that

Why I think religion is largely a worthless enterprise.

 

[therealUT]

another error by the CC.

You think that only Christians will go to heaven?

Another error by the CC.

Do you think that any diabolically evil souls exist? That is, do you believe that in the history of humanity anyone has done anything in which they truly felt was purely evil and in no way were trying to rationalize (even to themselves) their actions?

I cannot conceive of such a being; I have a harder time conceiving of a diabolically evil being than I do of a God. There are a lot of individuals who commit evil in the pursuit of pleasure; but, those individuals are somehow justifying that pleasure is good and ought to be sought. Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot...each of these brutal dictators had incredibly detailed justifications for why they truly felt their actions were good and right.

Diabolical evil means that individuals do not happen to commit sin because they are weak willed and God gave them free will; diabolical evil means that, if there is an omnipotent God, God created pure evil.

 

[bamacheats]

This depends on your historical interpretation of the writings of the Gospels. Many Protestant churches hold the notion that the Gospel authors personally knew Jesus; the Catholic Church does not subscribe to such a theory.



The early councils of the Catholic Church were much more focused on reason and natural law and early Christian traditions; they were much less focused on scripture. In fact, they selected the texts that they felt demonstrated many of their beliefs in compiling the bible; their beliefs, however, were already established prior to the compiling of the bible.

According to my knowledge of the history of the Catholic Church, the most drastic altering of doctrine occurred post Constantine. Enough scripture was available to recognize that their newest teachings were contrary.

 

[Obsessed]

Have any of y'all (nay sayers) ever read the bible?

 

[Gramps]

No they are not. Christians worship a trinity, Jews worship a deity.

Yes they are the same God. The Jews only worship the Father.
The trinity is the Father, the son and the holy ghost.

Both worship the same God. The Jews do not believe Jesus Christ to be the son of God, thus they do not worship him, only the Father. Without Christ there is no Holy Ghost to worship.

 

[therealUT]

According to my knowledge of the history of the Catholic Church, the most drastic altering of doctrine occurred post Constantine. Enough scripture was available to recognize that their newest teachings were contrary.

Doctrine or Dogma? There have been very few dogmatic changes in the Catholic Church since the third, fourth, and fifth centuries. There have been plenty of doctrinal changes, but, then again, those are merely doctrinal changes.

 

[bamacheats]

Why I think religion is largely a worthless enterprise.

After years of diligent study, that's my basic conclusion.

I think the good that comes from religion is actually not coming from the religion, but its members, who are inherently good among themselves.

Church is big business.

 

[PKT_VOL]

The Bible was written by men that walked with Christ or those that helped establish the Christian Church.

Debatable.

The councils of the CC are setup similar to a board meeting and deciding what is and what is not.

Big difference PKT.

1) Such councils would not be necessary if the original texts were not contradictory and ambiguous.

2) So men since Christ are not subject to revelation?

 

[bamacheats]

Yes they are the same God. The Jews only worship the Father.
The trinity is the Father, the son and the holy ghost.

Both worship the same God. The Jews do not believe Jesus Christ to be the son of God, thus they do not worship him, only the Father. Without Christ there is no Holy Ghost to worship.

Abraham did not worship a trinity. Therefore Christians do not worship the God of Abraham.

 

[PKT_VOL]

Another error by the CC.

Yeah because considering deeds on judgement day is just crazy.

 

[bamacheats]

Doctrine or Dogma? There have been very few dogmatic changes in the Catholic Church since the third, fourth, and fifth centuries. There have been plenty of doctrinal changes, but, then again, those are merely doctrinal changes.

Both. Constantine altered the Church more than scripture. That's true down to today.

 

[therealUT]

Both. Constantine altered the Church more than scripture. That's true down to today.

I was under the impression that the entire dogma of the Church in the fifth century could be summed up by the Credo. Not sure how that is anti-scripture.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

Have any of y'all (nay sayers) ever read the bible?

Yes, both in my days of conviction and moreso after.

 

[Gramps]

You think that only Christians will go to heaven?

I do believe that only those that have been saved will go to heaven with the exception of children too young to understand and those people who cannot understand because of learning disabilities.

Do you think that any diabolically evil souls exist? That is, do you believe that in the history of humanity anyone has done anything in which they truly felt was purely evil and in no way were trying to rationalize (even to themselves) their actions?

I cannot conceive of such a being; I have a harder time conceiving of a diabolically evil being than I do of a God. There are a lot of individuals who commit evil in the pursuit of pleasure; but, those individuals are somehow justifying that pleasure is good and ought to be sought. Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot...each of these brutal dictators had incredibly detailed justifications for why they truly felt their actions were good and right.

Diabolical evil means that individuals do not happen to commit sin because they are weak willed and God gave them free will; diabolical evil means that, if there is an omnipotent God, God created pure evil.

The Bible state the only sin that cannot be forgiven is blasphemy, which is the sin on unbelief.
No one that does not believe in God is going to ask for forgiveness thus they cannot be forgiven.

I do however believe that a non beliver can have a change of heart at some point in their lives and then ask and be forgiven.

 

[PKT_VOL]

You think that only Christians will go to heaven?



Do you think that any diabolically evil souls exist? That is, do you believe that in the history of humanity anyone has done anything in which they truly felt was purely evil and in no way were trying to rationalize (even to themselves) their actions?

I cannot conceive of such a being; I have a harder time conceiving of a diabolically evil being than I do of a God. There are a lot of individuals who commit evil in the pursuit of pleasure; but, those individuals are somehow justifying that pleasure is good and ought to be sought. Hitler, Mao, Stalin, Pol Pot...each of these brutal dictators had incredibly detailed justifications for why they truly felt their actions were good and right.

Diabolical evil means that individuals do not happen to commit sin because they are weak willed and God gave them free will; diabolical evil means that, if there is an omnipotent God, God created pure evil.

Could be a Constantine situation. However, that is metaphysical.