Recruiting Forum: Football Talk II

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#5,076
#5,076
The Breakerboy said:
Bray's been mouthing off since he was a freshman. Chaney is the biggest problem with Bray to me. He was a better player under Hinshaw's coaching than Chaney. He was reading defenses better and looked for a lot of his 2nd and 3rd progressions in his second year. I really can't wait until we get rid of Chaney after this game.
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Bray was a better QB as a freshman than he is now because it was before the media clippings and before he "started smelling himself". There's no way Worley comes in and goes 7-9 and leads the team down the field on a drive and you can blame Chaney. Call a spade a spade. Bray is an emotional rollercoaster at times and we all have the fortune and misfortune to ride it.
 
#5,077
#5,077
RhodesVol said:
I agree that Bray was playing poorly, but once you sit him, and play JW or the rest of the half, why bring him back, and suffer through bad throws for the rest of the game?

Leaving an obviously rattled/off Bray in through the third and fourth just seemed like the staff didn't care to me. If they had no qualms with pulling him in the first half (to which we had decent results), why not repeat it in the second when it became obvious that the first time it didn't get his head straight?
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Quality post. As much as we all like to praise Bray (often I'm the head cheerleader) we have to be honest with ourselves after he was pulled he looked more like Ryan Leaf on the sideline rather than Peyton Manning. Body language was <<<<
 
#5,078
#5,078
Tha Don said:
Bray was a better QB as a freshman than he is now because it was before the media clippings and before he "started smelling himself". There's no way Worley comes in and goes 7-9 and leads the team down the field on a drive and you can blame Chaney. Call a spade a spade. Bray is an emotional rollercoaster at times and we all have the fortune and misfortune to ride it.
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So he's reading all the press clippings now. But he was hyped up more early last year. ESPN Gameday did a feature on him last year. I'm going to blame Chaney and Dooley for his regression as a player. It's obvious they don't know how to push the right buttons. There's also a lack of respect for that "soft" coach. Chaney saying I'm going to bench him and put him back in is hilarious. He's not a skill player. If you bench him then bench him.
 
#5,080
#5,080
Tha Don said:
Bray was a better QB as a freshman than he is now because it was before the media clippings and before he "started smelling himself". There's no way Worley comes in and goes 7-9 and leads the team down the field on a drive and you can blame Chaney. Call a spade a spade. Bray is an emotional rollercoaster at times and we all have the fortune and misfortune to ride it.
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Take a look at the throws Worlwy had to make.
 
#5,081
#5,081
Worlbiscuit looked good on that second drive. Made some good throws to #11.

The real question is what would our record be if Worlbiscuit had started all year?? If you really look at it, there is a chance we lose to Troy without Bray, and there is at least a chance we beat UGA/Miss St with Worlbiscuit instead of Bray's mistakes.
 
#5,082
#5,082
GoBigOrangeVols said:
Worlbiscuit looked good on that second drive. Made some good throws to #11.

The real question is what would our record be if Worlbiscuit had started all year?? If you really look at it, there is a chance we lose to Troy without Bray, and there is at least a chance we beat UGA/Miss St with Worlbiscuit instead of Bray's mistakes.
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we did not lose to UGA or Mstate b/c of the offense - when you give up 51 and 41 points look at the defense, not the QB to find who lost you the game

i hear tons of criticism on hear of Chaney and Bray yet that offense is the only thing keeping us from 1-11 - that is the results our defense provided us

the only game the offense digressed is after we fired our coach and it became 100% apparent this year was a lost cause - every game where something was still on the line they played well and the defense stunk it up - simple as that
 
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#5,083
#5,083
SCvol333 said:
we did not lose to UGA or Mstate b/c of the offense - when you give up 51 and 41 points look at the defense, not the QB to find who lost you the game

i hear tons of criticism on hear of Chaney and Bray yet that offense is the only thing keeping us from 1-11 - that is the results our defense provided us

the only game the offense digressed is after we fired our coach and it became 100% apparent this year was a lost cause - every game where something was still on the line they played well and the defense stunk it up - simple as that
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I agree with all of that except that we still had a chance to win both the UGA game and the Miss St game in spite of our horrendous defense, and Bray's mistakes cost us. He has not been a reliable quarterback... EVER.
 
#5,084
#5,084
GoBigOrangeVols said:
I agree with all of that except that we still had a chance to win both the UGA game and the Miss St game in spite of our horrendous defense, and Bray's mistakes cost us. He has not been a reliable quarterback... EVER.
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A strip sack isn't on the QB. The last INT was a desparation heave. We lost MIss St on Devrin's fumble.
 
#5,085
#5,085
GoBigOrangeVols said:
Worlbiscuit looked good on that second drive. Made some good throws to #11.

The real question is what would our record be if Worlbiscuit had started all year?? If you really look at it, there is a chance we lose to Troy without Bray, and there is at least a chance we beat UGA/Miss St with Worlbiscuit instead of Bray's mistakes.
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Are you OK? Other than the Vandy game, one could argue that not ONE game all season was lost because of the offense. That offense averaged almost 40 points/game.

Our defense was just plain terrible.

Sure, you can make the argument that Bray's TO at the end of the UGA game was a killer. But, your defense has to be able to make some stops,and they didn't.
 
#5,087
#5,087
chavisut said:
Take a look at the throws Worlwy had to make.
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Bray sucked it up. No excuse but he stunk that day. Point. Blank. Period. You and BB can make all the excuses for him you want but if he wants to play at the next level or consider himself an elite SEC QB he has to play better. He makes the reads and progressions regardless of the plays called.

Considering analyzing QB play is what I specialize in... nevermind. I watched him go thru his reads and it was laughable at best.
 
#5,088
#5,088
pinfish09 said:
This. I like Worley but lets not get carried away on sample size. the only ball he threw more than 10 yards got picked. He averaged 4.5 yards per throw which is awful on 80% completions.
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The point of qb play isn't yds per throw. It's to move the ball down the field.
 
#5,089
#5,089
SCvol333 said:
i hear tons of criticism on hear of Chaney and Bray yet that offense is the only thing keeping us from 1-11 - that is the results our defense provided us
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I only pile on Chaney because he gets too fancy or creative for his own good. There are 8 NFL players starting on that offense right now, they should put up a crap ton of points. I think he gets legitimate criticism for giving up on the run way to early and for getting tricky when he has no need.
 
#5,090
#5,090
GoBigOrangeVols said:
I agree with all of that except that we still had a chance to win both the UGA game and the Miss St game in spite of our horrendous defense, and Bray's mistakes cost us. He has not been a reliable quarterback... EVER.
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So you think Bray was the problem in the Miss. State game? That's laughable. Bray haters are so funny. Backup QBs are always better than the starters I see. Bray against UGA threw one pick late. Came back and got stripped while leading us down the field. Bray blew the SCAR game too didn't he. Kid is being forced to win shootouts in the SEC. And he has an OC that panics and puts him in less than favorable situations.
 
#5,091
#5,091
LynxVol said:
Are you OK? Other than the Vandy game, one could argue that not ONE game all season was lost because of the offense. That offense averaged almost 40 points/game.

Our defense was just plain terrible.

Sure, you can make the argument that Bray's TO at the end of the UGA game was a killer. But, your defense has to be able to make some stops,and they didn't.
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go back and read my statement... I said there is "at least a chance..." ... I don't think that is too outrageous a statement to make.
 
#5,092
#5,092
pinfish09 said:
A strip sack isn't on the QB. The last INT was a desparation heave. We lost MIss St on Devrin's fumble.
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We lost Miss. State because of defense too. Herman Lathers got ran through on 3rd and 7 where he could've gotten us off the field. He's got to make that play as an eighth year senior.
 
#5,093
#5,093
The Breakerboy said:
We lost Miss. State because of defense too. Herman Lathers got ran through on 3rd and 7 where he could've gotten us off the field. He's got to make that play as an eighth year senior.
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Oh, I'm not saying it wasn't on the defense. I think every loss this year except Vandy and Bammer lies soley on the defense. I was referring to his point that they still had a chance INSPITE OF the defense, but Bray blew it. Devrin getting stripped was the last nail in that coffin is all I was saying.
 
#5,094
#5,094
You all are overreacting, Tyler Bray is the SEC leader in passing yards- 3319 and TDs-30. The defense was the problem this year. If they had showed up to play even a little bit below average Derek Dooley would still have his job. Obviously Bray has some attitude issues, but if the VOLS had 6 wins going into Vandy Bray probably would have reacted differently. Tennessee's troubles in 2012 are not to blame on Bray or Chaney.
 
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#5,095
#5,095
The Breakerboy said:
We lost Miss. State because of defense too. Herman Lathers got ran through on 3rd and 7 where he could've gotten us off the field. He's got to make that play as an eighth year senior.
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Not to mention that after sitting the bench all game, the coaches put Brewer and Teague in for the final drive and each one got beat on a 3rd down that extended the drive.

On Bray, IIRC in the UGA game there was no one open and he was trying to run the ball when he fumbled. If that was what he was doing, he should have just thrown it away. Nothing good is going to come from him running the ball.
 
#5,096
#5,096
GoBigOrangeVols said:
I agree with all of that except that we still had a chance to win both the UGA game and the Miss St game in spite of our horrendous defense, and Bray's mistakes cost us. He has not been a reliable quarterback... EVER.
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If you assign blame for his mistakes you must logically assign credit to him for having the team in position to win games in which the defense did its impression of a turnstile. The logic cuts both ways so please stop cherry-picking info to support a fairly absurd argument.
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#5,097
#5,097
OCI I know you are the leader of the "we getting Gruden" circle but what other names are floating around...any dark horse or outside the box guys not being thrown around by media or sources? 247 and Tony B said it's "Gruden job to turn down" but Golden.Fedora and Tressel could be in the mix if the says no....can Tressel even coach?
 
#5,098
#5,098
GoBigOrangeVols said:
I agree with all of that except that we still had a chance to win both the UGA game and the Miss St game in spite of our horrendous defense, and Bray's mistakes cost us. He has not been a reliable quarterback... EVER.
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So you are going to tell us that Bray lost us that game because of two drives?

That is beyond stupid.
 
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#5,099
#5,099
WebbCobb said:
If you assign blame for his mistakes you must logically assign credit to him for having the team in position to win games in which the defense did its impression of a turnstile. The logic cuts both ways so please stop cherry-picking info to support a fairly absurd argument.
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I don't dispute that he played well for large portions of those games as well... but he has proven consistently that he is unstable between his ears and his mistakes have cost us late in games that we still had a chance to win.

My overarching point is this: He has been so inconsistent and immature throughout his entire career on the Hill, that I really question whether I would want him as the QB next season and whether we would be better off going in a different direction.

Its perfectly fair for you all to disagree and just dismiss this season because the defense has been horrendous... but I would ask you - what has he been able to do consistently that gives you confidence that he will ever be a WINNING QB in this league. (Notice I said winning, not stat producing).
 
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