Official Jon Gruden Thread V

Status
Not open for further replies.
#5,352
#5,352
This administration shakeup talk isn't giving me confidence in the future of the program.

In essence if half of this is true, we're royally screwed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#5,354
#5,354
'Boro-vol said:
TIFWIW....I was just told by one if my guys, a letterman, that Cheeks and Hart are both targeted....and have been since summer. Cheeks first, Hart sometime thereafter. This goes far beyond football.

This is the second time he's told me this. Cheek is obviously most pressing. Hart wouldnt happen until after all the coaching stuff is settled. There is a large faction of lettermen and boosters that want them both gone.

Again...TIFWIW.
Click to expand...
I don't know much of the background here, but as an outsider this sounds like the inmates running the asylum.

You have a faction of football players/boosters (presumably) trying to dictate university direction based on how the football team is affected, as opposed to the academics of the institution and being recognized for said academics, correct?

I'm not sure I agree with that. Sure football is the moneymaker, but we tend to lose sight of the forest through the trees.

These schools are first and foremost institutions of higher learning that a vast majority of those who benefit from said institutions are NOT athletes. I even go so far to say that many of those same students have poured just as much money into the academic side as boosters have the athletic side through tuition and/or giving programs that we don't know about.

This is when I hate what college football has become. You have fans who value 10 wins in a football season over the employment or professional value of a degree from the University of ****** and the prestige that comes with it if you focus on academics as well.

This goes for ALL schools.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#5,358
#5,358
I think the hope is that the meeting gets Cheek on board enough to "play-ball", giving a perception of stability in the administration until the homerun coaching hire can be made.

I guess it all depends in how much the Chancellor wants to be here, and if he feels like playing ball will Dave his job.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#5,359
#5,359
The Waco Kid said:
I don't know much of the background here, but as an outsider this sounds like the inmates running the asylum.

You have a faction of football players/boosters (presumably) trying to dictate university direction based on how the football team is affected, as opposed to the academics of the institution and being recognized for said academics, correct?

I'm not sure I agree with that. Sure football is the moneymaker, but we tend to lose sight of the forest through the trees.

These schools are first and foremost institutions of higher learning that a vast majority of those who benefit from said institutions are NOT athletes. I even go so far to say that many of those same students have poured just as much money into the academic side as boosters have the athletic side through tuition and/or giving programs that we don't know about.

This is when I hate what college football has become. You have fans who value 10 wins in a football season over the employment or professional value of a degree from the University of ****** and the prestige that comes with it if you focus on academics as well.
Click to expand...

I agree, academics and their standards need to be first and foremost, but the issue with Cheek and Ut is not that we dislike the standards, but that we need to try to balance out the differences and Cheek will not do that. Cheek's main problem is he is stuck in his ways and will not change with the times, you can argue he is protecting standards but I argue that he is a stick in the mud.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#5,360
#5,360
The Waco Kid said:
I don't know much of the background here, but as an outsider this sounds like the inmates running the asylum.

You have a faction of football players/boosters (presumably) trying to dictate university direction based on how the football team is affected, as opposed to the academics of the institution and being recognized for said academics, correct?

I'm not sure I agree with that. Sure football is the moneymaker, but we tend to lose sight of the forest through the trees.

These schools are first and foremost institutions of higher learning that a vast majority of those who benefit from said institutions are NOT athletes. I even go so far to say that many of those same students have poured just as much money into the academic side as boosters have the athletic side through tuition and/or giving programs that we don't know about.

This is when I hate what college football has become. You have fans who value 10 wins in a football season over the employment or professional value of a degree from the University of ****** and the prestige that comes with it if you focus on academics as well.
Click to expand...
The problem with that outlook is the fact that football is the cash cow for the university. If the administration is doing things that impede or hinder improvements to the athletics department and football specifically, then they are hurting all students. Unless the university can claim elite status (Ivy League) and charge the fees, then thy are dependent upon a healthy AD for supplemental income.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#5,361
#5,361
The Waco Kid said:
I don't know much of the background here, but as an outsider this sounds like the inmates running the asylum.

You have a faction of football players/boosters (presumably) trying to dictate university direction based on how the football team is affected, as opposed to the academics of the institution and being recognized for said academics, correct?

I'm not sure I agree with that. Sure football is the moneymaker, but we tend to lose sight of the forest through the trees.

These schools are first and foremost institutions of higher learning that a vast majority of those who benefit from said institutions are NOT athletes. I even go so far to say that many of those same students have poured just as much money into the academic side as boosters have the athletic side through tuition and/or giving programs that we don't know about.

This is when I hate what college football has become. You have fans who value 10 wins in a football season over the employment or professional value of a degree from the University of ****** and the prestige that comes with it if you focus on academics as well.

This goes for ALL schools.
Click to expand...

As I said, this goes far beyond football. The lettermen are not orchestrating this, its just where I got my info.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#5,362
#5,362
The Waco Kid said:
I don't know much of the background here, but as an outsider this sounds like the inmates running the asylum.

You have a faction of football players/boosters (presumably) trying to dictate university direction based on how the football team is affected, as opposed to the academics of the institution and being recognized for said academics, correct?

I'm not sure I agree with that. Sure football is the moneymaker, but we tend to lose sight of the forest through the trees.

These schools are first and foremost institutions of higher learning that a vast majority of those who benefit from said institutions are NOT athletes. I even go so far to say that many of those same students have poured just as much money into the academic side as boosters have the athletic side through tuition and/or giving programs that we don't know about.

This is when I hate what college football has become. You have fans who value 10 wins in a football season over the employment or professional value of a degree from the University of ****** and the prestige that comes with it if you focus on academics as well.

This goes for ALL schools.
Click to expand...

Seperate.

You dont want coaches in charge of engineering...you dont want Prof's in charge of football.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#5,363
#5,363
'Boro-vol said:
I think the hope is that the meeting gets Cheek on board enough to "play-ball", giving a perception of stability in the administration until the homerun coaching hire can be made.

I guess it all depends in how much the Chancellor wants to be here, and if he feels like playing ball will Dave his job.
Click to expand...

When is the meeting?
 
#5,364
#5,364
gardners_51609 said:
I agree, academics and their standards need to be first and foremost, but the issue with Cheek and Ut is not that we dislike the standards, but that we need to try to balance out the differences and Cheek will not do that. Cheek's main problem is he is stuck in his ways and will not change with the times, you can argue he is protecting standards but I argue that he is a stick in the mud.
Click to expand...

This stems from Cheek and his slice if the athletic $$$ pie. No matter which decision is made his slice gets smaller for a time. He's not happy about that.
 
#5,368
#5,368
The Waco Kid said:
I don't know much of the background here, but as an outsider this sounds like the inmates running the asylum.

You have a faction of football players/boosters (presumably) trying to dictate university direction based on how the football team is affected, as opposed to the academics of the institution and being recognized for said academics, correct?

I'm not sure I agree with that. Sure football is the moneymaker, but we tend to lose sight of the forest through the trees.

These schools are first and foremost institutions of higher learning that a vast majority of those who benefit from said institutions are NOT athletes. I even go so far to say that many of those same students have poured just as much money into the academic side as boosters have the athletic side through tuition and/or giving programs that we don't know about.

This is when I hate what college football has become. You have fans who value 10 wins in a football season over the employment or professional value of a degree from the University of ****** and the prestige that comes with it if you focus on academics as well.

This goes for ALL schools.
Click to expand...

You have one of the best AD's in the business. Don't want to hear it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#5,369
#5,369
'Boro-vol said:
I don't think the AD situation changes soon, or as a result of this meeting. That is just my opinion. The Chancellor situation very well could however.
Click to expand...

Thats what I meant. Thanks for clarifying.

I'll run with the construction analogy;

When you build something, there is a blueprint that tells what needs to happen and come together to make the final structure. Sometimes, heck alot of the time, the phases are off...grant it there are some phases that cant be done before another phase, such as drywall before framing etc., but there are many phases that can be and will be done depending on outside variables (i.e. materials availability, timing, weather, awaiting funds - draws as commonly called, etc.)

This is whats happening now from what you guys are saying...the coaching issue has torn the siding off the house, exposing structural issues that need to be corrected before it can be made "pretty" again...
 
#5,370
#5,370
Soon. No news is, well, exactly what is likely to happen until the week after we play Kentucky. Quit worrying.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#5,371
#5,371
I rarely post on here but I follow it closely. I don't have any real insiders in terms of boosters but I am very much in tune with the Knoxville political scene as well as some inner workings of the university.

What folks have to realize is this goes far deeper than any coach, AD, booster, etc. It is a very deep divide including culture at the university as well as administrative structure. We have a very divided fanbase. My guess is the AD is divided as well but I don't know that. You have a divide between the AD and university that goes back several years to Dr. Crabtree when, after he left, the AD was moved under Cheek and out from the system. These divides haven't gone away and in some cases, due to the whole separation of women's and men's ADs have gotten worse.

Look, Cheek isn't a bad guy and in many respects is doing what he was hired to do - make UT a top academic and research institution. Unfortunately football is secondary there. Really, you can't blame Cheek for that - it was the direction he was given.

Now, all of a sudden, many - trustees, fanbase, boosters, etc. realize the problem has been the culture and focus all along and are trying to change that, but some want the focus to be academics not football. What that means is back to UT being a land grant institution that focuses on educating the citizens of the state first - that is headlined by excellence in athletics. The problem is everyone is divided. The university and AD are in bad financial positions making all this even more difficult. What folks need to realize is that the Debbie Jennings issues are going on every day all across the university. The place is a disaster administratively. One of the solutions for athletics is separating the AD from the university like UGA and UF into it's own separate organization. It's been on the table for a while but never seems to be at the forefront. My guess is that is what is going on now.

So, in summary of this book, fans have to be patient. This goes further than any coach or any one administrator. It's not so much about standards - they can get enough athletes in school. It's about support, control, and everyone being on the same page. Whether it's Gruden being a possibility that's made this urgent, who knows, but it's a conversation that has been needed for a long time. It's about uniting everyone involved as much as anything. Leadership is a problem and has been for years. Until that changes, it doesn't matter who the coach is or might be. We're going to see what the Governor and Dipietro are made of with this. It's their job to make all this work, but based on what I know of how things are run financially over there, I'm not optimistic those in charge know or understand the real problems.

My guess is the boosters want a big time coach, but control and support is going to be a major issue. Even if Gruden wants to come here and the boosters will pay him, why would he want to deal with this crap? Also, IMO, Hart has made things worse because he's the classic good ole boy, which is the last thing this university needs and what they need to rid themselves of.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 people
#5,372
#5,372
Just a few facts to consider during all of this

A) Until the football coaching issue is corrected we are losing money each home game.

B) Without the donations that football generates other sports programs will suffer and some may have to be eliminated.

C) Big Jim Haslam played for Neyland, the last thing he wants to see is the program go south to the point where Miami currently is with attendance.

D) Jim Haslam has a son who is the governor and UT is a state run university, Jim hates Cheeks, the rest is not to hard to figure out.

E) To those who want to mock or criticize ask yourself one simple question, What is there to gain in making up things and starting rumors? Everyone in this thread that has posted tangible info have been a member for awhile with one being a Mod.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#5,373
#5,373
bjsvols1 said:
I rarely post on here but I follow it closely. I don't have any real insiders in terms of boosters but I am very much in tune with the Knoxville political scene as well as some inner workings of the university.

What folks have to realize is this goes far deeper than any coach, AD, booster, etc. It is a very deep divide including culture at the university as well as administrative structure. We have a very divided fanbase. My guess is the AD is divided as well but I don't know that. You have a divide between the AD and university that goes back several years to Dr. Crabtree when, after he left, the AD was moved under Cheek and out from the system. These divides haven't gone away and in some cases, due to the whole separation of women's and men's ADs have gotten worse.

Look, Cheek isn't a bad guy and in many respects is doing what he was hired to do - make UT a top academic and research institution. Unfortunately football is secondary there. Really, you can't blame Cheek for that - it was the direction he was given.

Now, all of a sudden, many - trustees, fanbase, boosters, etc. realize the problem has been the culture and focus all along and are trying to change that, but some want the focus to be academics not football. What that means is back to UT being a land grant institution that focuses on educating the citizens of the state first - that is headlined by excellence in athletics. The problem is everyone is divided. The university and AD are in bad financial positions making all this even more difficult. What folks need to realize is that the Debbie Jennings issues are going on every day all across the university. The place is a disaster administratively. One of the solutions for athletics is separating the AD from the university like UGA and UF into it's own separate organization. It's been on the table for a while but never seems to be at the forefront. My guess is that is what is going on now.

So, in summary of this book, fans have to be patient. This goes further than any coach or any one administrator. It's not so much about standards - they can get enough athletes in school. It's about support, control, and everyone being on the same page. Whether it's Gruden being a possibility that's made this urgent, who knows, but it's a conversation that has been needed for a long time. It's about uniting everyone involved as much as anything. Leadership is a problem and has been for years. Until that changes, it doesn't matter who the coach is or might be. We're going to see what the Governor and Dipietro are made of with this. It's their job to make all this work, but based on what I know of how things are run financially over there, I'm not optimistic those in charge know or understand the real problems.

My guess is the boosters want a big time coach, but control and support is going to be a major issue. Even if Gruden wants to come here and the boosters will pay him, why would he want to deal with this crap? Also, IMO, Hart has made things worse because he's the classic good ole boy, which is the last thing this university needs and what they need to rid themselves of.
Click to expand...
Superb post.
 
#5,375
#5,375
RagingOrange said:
Thats what I meant. Thanks for clarifying.

I'll run with the construction analogy;

When you build something, there is a blueprint that tells what needs to happen and come together to make the final structure. Sometimes, heck alot of the time, the phases are off...grant it there are some phases that cant be done before another phase, such as drywall before framing etc., but there are many phases that can be and will be done depending on outside variables (i.e. materials availability, timing, weather, awaiting funds - draws as commonly called, etc.)

This is whats happening now from what you guys are saying...the coaching issue has torn the siding off the house, exposing structural issues that need to be corrected before it can be made "pretty" again...
Click to expand...
I understand what people here are saying and it does appear there's a lot of moving parts. That being said, with so much instability it is difficult to see a talented coach electing to step into this situation.

Let's face it - there has been a rift in the fan base and the AD for quite some time now. It has never healed. This will only exacerbate it.

As someone astutely said earlier, things are never as good nor as bad as they seem. I suspect there are many issues at play here. For Tennessee's sake I do hope they are resolved in a timely fashion.

This is an important crossroads for the future of the football program. I sincerely hope it doesn't get screwed up.
 
New posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Advertisement



Back
Top