Time Machine: What If Brian Kelly Accepted UT HC Position

#26
#26
Just another merc hire. If a coaching change is made anytime soon, Hart will bring in a heavy hitter. I choose not to speculate
 
#27
#27
Rudy123 said:
Is there a great coach out there who thinks U.T. is there dream job????? If so, why don't we offer him the job, if/when Dooley is gone???
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Dont think he's great but Randy Sanders probably thinks that way.

Tee Martin might as well...and he's climbing the football ranks like a rocket.
 
#28
#28
OuterBanksVol said:
After Kiffen bolted, word was that Brian Kelly (at Cincinnati at the time) was among a number of coaches that politely told the UT athletic dept 'No thank you' to our HC position offer. Of course, Mr. Kelly went on to accept the Notre Dame position, while DD eventually accepted the UT position.

The first upcoming BCS poll comes out this weekend, and the *computer* rankings have the 5-0 Irish as #1. Meanwhile, we Vols are slightly above mediocreville having cracked the top 25 for the first time in years, and now sit at 3-2.

So, would it have made a difference had Kelly come to UT? I offer the following based on 2 factors only: recruiting and win/loss record.

Interestingly, Notre Dame's recruiting record is nearly identical to the Vols over the past 3 years, per Rivals:

2010
Notre Dame #14
UT #9

2011
Notre Dame #10
UT #13

2012
Notre Dame #20
UT #17

Average 3-year recruiting rank:
Notre Dame 14.6
UT 13.0

So, based solely on recruiting records, both teams are building top-20 teams.

The actual team records, though, seem to tell a very different story:

2010
Notre Dame 8-5
UT 6-7

2011
Notre Dame 8-5
UT 5-7

2012
Notre Dame 5-0
UT 3-2

Total 3-year record:
Notre Dame 21-10
UT 14-16

Obviously, ND looks far better on paper. But, would Kelly have posted a better record than DD had he come to UT? The quality of Notre Dame's opponents raises questions about the strength of their team v. UT, as follows:

2010
Notre Dame (played 2 ranked opponents - no top 10)
UT (played 5 ranked opponents - 3 top 10)

2011
Notre Dame 8-5 (played 2 ranked opponents - no top 10)
UT 5-7 (played 6 ranked opponents - 3 top 10)

2012
Notre Dame 5-0 (played 2 ranked opponents - 1 top 10)
UT 3-2 (played 2 ranked opponents - 1 top 10)

Total # of 3-year ranked opponents:
Notre Dame (6 ranked opponents - 1 top 10)
UT (13 ranked opponents - 7 top 10)

Until this year, the Irish have clearly had cupcake schedules, while the Vols have played in the toughest conference in the nation.

So my take on what effect Brian Kelly would have had on UT had he elected to be our HC is as follows: While the jury is still out on both he and DD, neither Kelly's recruiting record nor his win record suggest that he would have had more success than DD if he were in Knoxville.

At the end of the day, I believe our current team (with tough losses only to very strong UGA and FL teams) would stand toe to toe with Notre Dame on the field right now. By the end of the season, I expect both teams to be ranked pretty close to one another in the top-25.

I know Irish fans will be pumped to see that #1 computer rank this weekend, and it definitely sucks to watch their quick 'turnaround'. But, in reality, DD has built a Vol team that is ever bit as good as them, and I think we just need to keep in mind that the SEC is a brutal, brutal conference.

The worm will turn folks. Keep the faith. GBO!
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I was wanting Kelly here too. But looking at Dooley's and Kelly's record is not really fair. ND does not play the type of talent we do. I mean we Play top 10 teams in the nation ever year. Alabama,LSU,Florida,S.Carolina,Georgia.
 
#30
#30
Kelly has shown nothing to prove he could coach in the SEC to me.. Especially after that debacle vs Michigan last year. Plus he sounds feminine IMO
Southerner> Yankee
 
#32
#32
Merc hire, gone quickly. Don't think the fan base or team would buy in based on where he has had his wins and who they were against
 
#34
#34
gnm53108 said:
http://www.volnation.com/forum/tenn...omparing-programs-tn-vs-nd-2.html#post7353493

Post by Jack will make you sick.
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From my understanding the statements from Kelly in Jack's post are pretty spot on. Hamilton - the gift that keeps on giving. He became enamored with the Kiffin's, which was helped by Majors' relationship with Monte. He is no longer our AD as a result.

Kelly was my #1 choice by far. He had very successfully built 2 programs from little to nothing. He has an innovative offensive mind, like Spurrier. You knew one side of the ball was taken care of with your head coach, very unlike the current situation. He is a non-nonsense guy - team discipline would have been right. He is a great fund raiser and communicator to the fan base. IMO had he received and accepted the UT job he would not have left for ND, even though it is his dream job. All evidence from his past history indicates that he jumps into the job he has and will not turn from it until it is completed. He left Cincy because he had done everything that could be done at that school. They needed serious facilities upgrades that would have taken maybe hundreds of millions of dollars as well as a switch of conferences over time to achieve top tier status. The commitment to do that over a relatively short period of time was not there. It is Cincy - versus an Ohio State. He rightly moved on.

So the answer is Hamilton blew it for all of us and we would not be having these Dools goes or stays arguments. We would be competing for SEC championships again. Real deal players know real deal coaches and they sign on with them when they are presented the opportunity. That is happening at ND.
 
#35
#35
I am biased on the subject of CBK, however, he would have come in and been a top SEC coach from the start.

He would have to alter his offensive philosophy a little bit but he is a dang good coach.
 
#37
#37
Really? You have a time machine, and you want to use it to get Brian Kelly? Why not go get the General from 1939, let him mentor a coaching staff under a false name for 5 years, and then take him back to the moment right after you took him? Brian Kelly? Seriously?
 
#38
#38
Eastknox865 said:
You must be a very immature young adult who has yet to deal with death of close loved ones. Grow up just a little
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He sent the guy up there knowing it was dangerous just to benefit his little football team. Kelly is the immature one.
 
#39
#39
gnm53108 said:
http://www.volnation.com/forum/tenn...omparing-programs-tn-vs-nd-2.html#post7353493

Post by Jack will make you sick.
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Wow. That is interesting.

At the time we hired Kiffin, I remember Kelly being the other name that got lots of talk. With Lane bringing Monte with him, I thought Kiffin was the better hire. Remember, it wasn't considered as much a rebuilding job back then. It seemed like the Kiffins would be able to recruit and give us a bigger national profile and both had succeeded at a high level (Monte as DC for the Bucs and Lane as OC for USC).

Kelly had a few more question marks. Could he take a program up to a National Championship level? Could his offense work in the SEC? Could he recruit at a level necessary to succeed in the SEC? (Obviously, these questions seem silly considering who we have now, but back then, fans weren't happy with utter mediocrity).

I still think Kiffin would have gotten us built up if not for the USC job (and sure, I have no respect for Kiffin and the way he bolted). Would Kelly have done better? I don't know. I don't think Kelly would have bolted after one year though. Notre Dame wouldn't have been desperate like USC was (remember Carroll put them in a tough spot with the timing of his decision) and I doubt they would have tried to swipe our coach. Plus, I would think Kelly must be more loyal than Kiffin (probably 99% of people are). ND may have been his dream job, but it's also Urban Meyer's and he never bolted. So, in retrospect, hiring Kelly over Kiffin would have been beneficial, just because it would have saved us from Hamilton panicking and hiring Dooley. But who could have predicted that turn of events?

...Also, if Jack's story is accurate and that's the way the hiring went down, then I have even less respect for Hamilton than I did before. That's not how you handle a big hire. You don't tell someone that they basically have a job and should make travel plans and then go back on it like that. No wonder no one wanted to work for Hamilton when the job came open again.
 
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#40
#40
A better discussion would be, 'what if Brian Kelly were hired instead of Kiffin?'
 
#41
#41
ukvols said:
A better discussion would be, 'what if Brian Kelly were hired instead of Kiffin?'
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I think that is what we're discussing, since the OP mis-remembered recent history and the fact that Kelly was already at Notre Dame when Kiffin left and thus, was not a viable candidate at that time.
 
#42
#42
Kelly took the ND job before Kiffin left Tennessee. Not sure how people are getting the years mixed up. He interviewed for the job in 2008 after Fulmer had been fired, not after Kiffin left.

IMO Kelly is overated as a coach. He would not have recruited well enough to Tennessee either. Winning at ND is a lot easier than winning in the SEC against elite programs. He is basically winning against a Big 10 schedule this year and nothing more.
 
#44
#44
Vols4us said:
From my understanding the statements from Kelly in Jack's post are pretty spot on. Hamilton - the gift that keeps on giving. He became enamored with the Kiffin's, which was helped by Majors' relationship with Monte. He is no longer our AD as a result.

Kelly was my #1 choice by far. He had very successfully built 2 programs from little to nothing. He has an innovative offensive mind, like Spurrier. You knew one side of the ball was taken care of with your head coach, very unlike the current situation. He is a non-nonsense guy - team discipline would have been right. He is a great fund raiser and communicator to the fan base. IMO had he received and accepted the UT job he would not have left for ND, even though it is his dream job. All evidence from his past history indicates that he jumps into the job he has and will not turn from it until it is completed. He left Cincy because he had done everything that could be done at that school. They needed serious facilities upgrades that would have taken maybe hundreds of millions of dollars as well as a switch of conferences over time to achieve top tier status. The commitment to do that over a relatively short period of time was not there. It is Cincy - versus an Ohio State. He rightly moved on.

So the answer is Hamilton blew it for all of us and we would not be having these Dools goes or stays arguments. We would be competing for SEC championships again. Real deal players know real deal coaches and they sign on with them when they are presented the opportunity. That is happening at ND.
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Kelly did not build up Cincinnati IMO. Mark Dantonio was the one who did that. He took it to the next level yes, but they were all with Dantonio's players. I still think he would have been a bad fit for the SEC. He's a better fit for ND / Big 10 because the defensives he is going to face up there are far weaker and not nearly talented enough or fast enough.
 
#45
#45
oregonvol said:
Wow. That is interesting.

At the time we hired Kiffin, I remember Kelly being the other name that got lots of talk. With Lane bringing Monte with him, I thought Kiffin was the better hire. Remember, it wasn't considered as much a rebuilding job back then. It seemed like the Kiffins would be able to recruit and give us a bigger national profile and both had succeeded at a high level (Monte as DC for the Bucs and Lane as OC for USC).

Kelly had a few more question marks. Could he take a program up to a National Championship level? Could his offense work in the SEC? Could he recruit at a level necessary to succeed in the SEC? (Obviously, these questions seem silly considering who we have now, but back then, fans weren't happy with utter mediocrity).

I still think Kiffin would have gotten us built up if not for the USC job (and sure, I have no respect for Kiffin and the way he bolted). Would Kelly have done better? I don't know. I don't think Kelly would have bolted after one year though. Notre Dame wouldn't have been desperate like USC was (remember Carroll put them in a tough spot with the timing of his decision) and I doubt they would have tried to swipe our coach. Plus, I would think Kelly must be more loyal than Kiffin (probably 99% of people are). ND may have been his dream job, but it's also Urban Meyer's and he never bolted. So, in retrospect, hiring Kelly over Kiffin would have been beneficial, just because it would have saved us from Hamilton panicking and hiring Dooley. But who could have predicted that turn of events?

...Also, if Jack's story is accurate and that's the way the hiring went down, then I have even less respect for Hamilton than I did before. That's not how you handle a big hire. You don't tell someone that they basically have a job and should make travel plans and then go back on it like that. No wonder no one wanted to work for Hamilton when the job came open again.
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I do agree that Hamilton was a bad AD. Not only from a hire standpoint but from an overall standpoint. He allowed the AD to be completely taken over by a people from the good ole boy / girl network and it was run completely into the ground under his watch. I do understand Dooley was a panic hire at the time considering the circumstances and all that but they can and need to do better. I do have confidence Dave Hart will get this thing going again if given the chance.
 
#47
#47
TN would beat Notre Dame this year. I'm not impressed one bit with ND or Kelly. Any number of SEC teams would steamroll ND, don't buy into the horrible bias towards them.
 
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#49
#49
Vols4us said:
From my understanding the statements from Kelly in Jack's post are pretty spot on. Hamilton - the gift that keeps on giving. He became enamored with the Kiffin's, which was helped by Majors' relationship with Monte. He is no longer our AD as a result.

Kelly was my #1 choice by far. He had very successfully built 2 programs from little to nothing. He has an innovative offensive mind, like Spurrier. You knew one side of the ball was taken care of with your head coach, very unlike the current situation. He is a non-nonsense guy - team discipline would have been right. He is a great fund raiser and communicator to the fan base. IMO had he received and accepted the UT job he would not have left for ND, even though it is his dream job. All evidence from his past history indicates that he jumps into the job he has and will not turn from it until it is completed. He left Cincy because he had done everything that could be done at that school. They needed serious facilities upgrades that would have taken maybe hundreds of millions of dollars as well as a switch of conferences over time to achieve top tier status. The commitment to do that over a relatively short period of time was not there. It is Cincy - versus an Ohio State. He rightly moved on.

So the answer is Hamilton blew it for all of us and we would not be having these Dools goes or stays arguments. We would be competing for SEC championships again. Real deal players know real deal coaches and they sign on with them when they are presented the opportunity. That is happening at ND.
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Coach Kelly was #1 on my wish list too.

Here's another what-if...If Hamilton had hired coach Kelly would he still be our AD? The Kiffen ncaa problems were just some of it...coach Pearl...bbq...baseball...ect...but with a stable and maybe sucessfull football program he might've weathered it.
 
#50
#50
Whatever Brian Kelly's temperment and style is, he can coach and has proven that and, not being critical of Derek Dooley, he has yet to prove he can. Who knows, he may turn out to be a very good coach, but we don't know that yet. I hope he is successful and restores Tn. football to it's rightful place of prominence in the NCAA. A victory Saturday at Miss. State will be a good start.
 
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