Jon Gruden thread (merged)

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#7,078
#7,078
VOLorNuttin said:
I know Dooley is in his 3rd season. The point is we shouldn't have to wait until the end of the season next year to look back and say..."Yep...we won an SEC game besides UK and Vandy."

There is too much talent and experience on this team to continue to regress.

It took Majors 5 yrs to beat a quality SEC opponent? Really? :loco:
Click to expand...

1) You have no way of knowing what games we will win this year.

2) The only talent and experience on this team is the kids DD recruited, so you are giving him credit for the talent?

3) When Majors took over we only played 6 SEC games a year, Florida was not played every year. The power SEC teams back then were Bama (Bear Bryant) and GA (Vince Dooley) The bottom tier SEC teams of today would be middle tier teams back in the late 70's early 80's. The Conference is much better today than back then, but please don't allow facts to cloud your judgement.

The similiarities between Majors rebuild and the one we are going thru now have one common theme... The rosters were left void of SEC talent and it takes time to rebuild.
 
#7,080
#7,080
GmanTN said:
1) You have no way of knowing what games we will win this year.

2) The only talent and experience on this team is the kids DD recruited, so you are giving him credit for the talent?

3) When Majors took over we only played 6 SEC games a year, Florida was not played every year. The power SEC teams back then were Bama (Bear Bryant) and GA (Vince Dooley) The bottom tier SEC teams of today would be middle tier teams back in the late 70's early 80's. The Conference is much better today than back then, but please don't allow facts to cloud your judgement.

The similiarities between Majors rebuild and the one we are going thru now have one common theme... The rosters were left void of SEC talent and it takes time to rebuild.
Click to expand...

The difference is simple and yet glaring.
Johnny was a proven coach that had already shown that he had what it takes to lead a team to the top.
Dooley? Well, not so much.
It's about having confidence in a winner.
 
#7,084
#7,084
Doyle Hargraves said:
Goes to show that the Doolrites are all lip service. They sing Dooley's praises but when they are all alone, they vote Saban. They know nothing about true loyalty like the Grudenites possess. Yet, they lecture us about the lack of loyalty.
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Not sure that is true:

Derek Dooley
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Click to expand...
 
#7,086
#7,086
GmanTN said:
1) You have no way of knowing what games we will win this year.

2) The only talent and experience on this team is the kids DD recruited, so you are giving him credit for the talent?

3) When Majors took over we only played 6 SEC games a year, Florida was not played every year. The power SEC teams back then were Bama (Bear Bryant) and GA (Vince Dooley) The bottom tier SEC teams of today would be middle tier teams back in the late 70's early 80's. The Conference is much better today than back then, but please don't allow facts to cloud your judgement.

The similiarities between Majors rebuild and the one we are going thru now have one common theme... The rosters were left void of SEC talent and it takes time to rebuild.
Click to expand...
I've said before, that he's done a pretty good job of recruiting. But being able to recruit to a place like UT/Knoxville is not like trying to recruit to UK or even USCjr...and it doesn't make him a good HC, if losses keep mounting up and losing to teams we've beaten for a quarter century consecutively.

Facts, eh? In your head only. Fact is he had more talent than Vandy and UK last year. Lost to one, and damn near the other. Had more talent than Akron, yet let them stay danger close, if not tied, until the 4th Qtr.

Also, the other fact you keep missing is that Majors and Fulmer BUILT this program to the point where Dooley can recruit at the same level as UF, UGA, LSU and BAMA. This program was nowhere near then, what it is today...even though our record doesn't seem to show it.
 
#7,087
#7,087
Doyle Hargraves said:
The difference is simple and yet glaring.
Johnny was a proven coach that had already shown that he had what it takes to lead a team to the top.
Dooley? Well, not so much.
It's about having confidence in a winner.
Click to expand...

It took Majors 9 years to win the SEC, given that as a measuring stick, how long would the patience of this fanbase have stuck with Majors? His first 4 years was 21-23-1

I was around back then and there were not many people having confidence in Majors turning it around his first 4 years here.
 
#7,088
#7,088
GmanTN said:
1) You have no way of knowing what games we will win this year.

2) The only talent and experience on this team is the kids DD recruited, so you are giving him credit for the talent?

3) When Majors took over we only played 6 SEC games a year, Florida was not played every year. The power SEC teams back then were Bama (Bear Bryant) and GA (Vince Dooley) The bottom tier SEC teams of today would be middle tier teams back in the late 70's early 80's. The Conference is much better today than back then, but please don't allow facts to cloud your judgement.

The similiarities between Majors rebuild and the one we are going thru now have one common theme... The rosters were left void of SEC talent and it takes time to rebuild.
Click to expand...

I agree with many of your points but not on trying to compare today's cfb with what Majors went thru. We dont have the luxury of waiting 5 yrs to see if DD pans out like we did in the 70s. Like it or not we're in a instant gratification era and if we dont succeed now and quickly we'll be run over by others.

In JM's day, we were lucky to see UT a couple of times a year and we'd never see anything of a now non BCS school. Today, virtually every game is broadcast in some form or fashion. There's even a slew of Div 1aa games on tv now. Point is its a different era.

Throw in the fact that in JM's day salaries were nothing like we're paying now, schools want to get as much bang for their buck asap. Pissing away millions just to see if the coach might work out wont work.
 
#7,090
#7,090
MedicT said:
Then how do you explain Spurrier's foray into the NFL, as someone mentioned earlier, compared to his success at SC?
Click to expand...

In the NFL you have to deal with owners who want to always stick in their two cents worth as to players that they are going to be paying. You have players that may not fit your system in the NFL. CSS had players that fit his system and coached them accordingly.

Make no mistake, CSS has those type of players that will go through that wall of fire for him now.
 
#7,091
#7,091
VOLorNuttin said:
I've said before, that he's done a pretty good job of recruiting. But being able to recruit to a place like UT/Knoxville is not like trying to recruit to UK or even USCjr...and it doesn't make him a good HC, if losses keep mounting up and losing to teams we've beaten for a quarter century consecutively.

Facts, eh? In your head only. Fact is he had more talent than Vandy and UK last year. Lost to one, and damn near the other. Had more talent than Akron, yet let them stay danger close, if not tied, until the 4th Qtr.

Also, the other fact you keep missing is that Majors and Fulmer BUILT this program to the point where Dooley can recruit at the same level as UF, UGA, LSU and BAMA. This program was nowhere near then, what it is today...even though our record doesn't seem to show it.
Click to expand...

If the bold was true Fulmer would still be here, we became irrelevant when Fulmer was here. That was why he no longer coaches here. We also don't have the in state talent to recruit with the programs you listed as long as those programs are ranked nationally. A kid coming out of high school doesn't even remember when the Vols were on top or near the top. That kid is well aware of the accomplishments of Bama, LSU, Florida and UGA, makes for a huge uphill battle to sway top talent from those states.
 
#7,092
#7,092
GmanTN said:
It took Majors 9 years to win the SEC, given that as a measuring stick, how long would the patience of this fanbase have stuck with Majors? His first 4 years was 21-23-1

I was around back then and there were not many people having confidence in Majors turning it around his first 4 years here.
Click to expand...
Well, believe it or not, I was around back in the Majors days as well. I agree that I was as frustrated as anyone with Johnny at times. The thing that made it bearable for me and probably why he lasted as long as he did was that he was a proven winner. Dooley has not proven he can win anything but cupcake games. To me, that is the difference.
 
#7,093
#7,093
Oldvol75 said:
In the NFL you have to deal with owners who want to always stick in their two cents worth as to players that they are going to be paying. You have players that may not fit your system in the NFL. CSS had players that fit his system and coached them accordingly.

Make no mistake, CSS has those type of players that will go through that wall of fire for him now.
Click to expand...

And UT doesn't have boosters, or an AD, or a fan base that wants to stick their two cents worth in? What am I missing here.......:search:
 
#7,094
#7,094
GmanTN said:
If the bold was true Fulmer would still be here, we became irrelevant when Fulmer was here. That was why he no longer coaches here. We also don't have the in state talent to recruit with the programs you listed as long as those programs are ranked nationally. A kid coming out of high school doesn't even remember when the Vols were on top or near the top. That kid is well aware of the accomplishments of Bama, LSU, Florida and UGA, makes for a huge uphill battle to sway top talent from those states.
Click to expand...
The recruiting problems you speak of are very true.
Hire Gruden and that problem goes away.
 
#7,095
#7,095
MedicT said:
And UT doesn't have boosters, or an AD, or a fan base that wants to stick their two cents worth in? What am I missing here.......:search:
Click to expand...

What you are missing is that in college football the head coach has final say when it comes to the players on the team. That means he gets the players he wants. The AD and fans don't make those decisions. There is no GM or owner in college to deal with.
Get it now?
 
#7,096
#7,096
Majors at his first HC gig was at Iowa State, he coached there 5 years prior to going to Pitt. His record at Iowa State 24-30-1/ 9-25-1 conference record.

After UT he returned to Pitt and left after 4 years with 45-45-1 record
 
#7,099
#7,099
GmanTN said:
If the bold was true Fulmer would still be here, we became irrelevant when Fulmer was here. That was why he no longer coaches here. We also don't have the in state talent to recruit with the programs you listed as long as those programs are ranked nationally. A kid coming out of high school doesn't even remember when the Vols were on top or near the top. That kid is well aware of the accomplishments of Bama, LSU, Florida and UGA, makes for a huge uphill battle top talent from those states.
Click to expand...

Exactly why we need a new HC

MedicT said:
And UT doesn't have boosters, or an AD, or a fan base that wants to stick their two cents worth in? What am I missing here.......:search:
Click to expand...

Go to ESPN and watch Muschamp's locker room after the LSU victory. They were so fired up, because Muschamp was fired up.
 
#7,100
#7,100
GmanTN said:
If the bold was true Fulmer would still be here, we became irrelevant when Fulmer was here. That was why he no longer coaches here. We also don't have the in state talent to recruit with the programs you listed as long as those programs are ranked nationally. A kid coming out of high school doesn't even remember when the Vols were on top or near the top. That kid is well aware of the accomplishments of Bama, LSU, Florida and UGA, makes for a huge uphill battle to sway top talent from those states.
Click to expand...

Fulmer never had a problem with going out and getting talent, regardless of where those top recruits were.

He just couldn't coach them or keep them out of trouble.

Chavis and Cutcliffe are what made Fulmer what he was.
 
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