Compare Dooley's career to Saban's (Long)

[VOLywood]

For everyone ready to "fire Dooley," I suggest you take a look at the history of how a coach begins a career in major conference football when inheriting a sub-par or mediocre team. Let's just compare the start of Dooley's career at a big-time football school to...hmmm, how about Nick Saban.

Nick Saban
Michigan State
1995: 6-5-1
1996: 6-6
1997: 7-5
1998: 6-6
1999: 9-2

LSU
2000: 8-4
2001: 10-3
2002: 8-5
2003: 13-1
2004: 9-3


Derek Dooley
Tennessee
2010: 6-7 (including 2 "questionable" losses)
2011: 5-7
2012: 3-2 (after 5 games)

So what can we learn from this comparison? Saban showed marginal improvement during his first 4 seasons at Michigan State, and it wasn't until his 5th year (imagine that...recruiting cycles) that you see his full impact on the program. Then he takes over at LSU...not a huge difference. He inherits an above-average program and shows marginal improvement until his 4th year.

This same type of pattern is showing itself under Derek Dooley at UT. Instead of inheriting a mediocre program, he inherited a train wreck. We are slowly watching the the culture of the program change and although there is marginal difference in the W/L record, you can't argue that we are not putting a more competitive football team on the field each week. If we let Dooley go before years 4 and 5, we are making a huge mistake. Coaches grow in their profession and perfect their craft just like every other type of career. Saban is a master at the craft of coaching, no doubt about it. We hired someone at the early stages of their career and will more than likely have a Saban on our hands in few more seasons. Are there growing pains? Yes. But the journey is still fun and if we might just end up with a legacy coach that establishes the future of a storied program. Don't count out Dooley!

Go Big Orange! #VFL

 

[theFallGuy]

Sabans first year he had a winning record.

Also, u didnt include Dooley's record at LA Tech.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Sabans first year he had a winning record.

Also, u didnt include Dooley's record at LA Tech.

Believe he said major school/conference.

 

[GBOVOLS]

My friend please tell the whole story not just what you want to see. By his 5th season as a head coach he was able to coach a team to 9-2 he had not loosing seasons CDD has had 1 winning seasons in his first 5 years as a HC

 

[BearCat204]

losering

 

[FEARinSEC]

You are wasting your time. I have brought this up several times, to no avail. You cannot reason with some around here.

 

[madbamahater]

My friend please tell the whole story not just what you want to see. By his 5th season as a head coach he was able to coach a team to 9-2 he had not loosing seasons CDD has had 1 winning seasons in his first 5 years as a HC

I believe he said major conference play. You failed at recognizing the truth. He covered what you claimed he didn't. LaTech record need not apply..........

 

[UrbanCryer]

good points that will be lost here.

 

[crparker21]

Sabans first year he had a winning record.

Also, u didnt include Dooley's record at LA Tech.

I'm not defending what the op is saying, LA tech and Mich st. are two completely different programs. Also being a little picky over the 6-5-1 vs dooley's tenn record first year.

 

[DC Vol]

Then he takes over at LSU...not a huge difference. He inherits an above-average program and shows marginal improvement until his 4th year.

8-4, 10-3, 8-5 aren't marginal improvements for a team that was 7-15 (3-14 SEC) the previous 2 years.

Are you kidding me?

But to me the turning point was converting the D to the 3-4 and the hiring of Sunseri. I still feel that if Dooley had brought in a proven DC like Randy Shannon and kept the 3-4 for at least the time being (i.e. until we build some actual depth and talent at LB) we wouldn't be in the position we're in now.

 

[VOLywood]

Sabans first year he had a winning record.

Also, u didnt include Dooley's record at LA Tech.

I don't consider LA Tech a major football school. Just like I didn't include Saban's time at Toledo.

 

[PayingUTKTuition]

The point is that nobody was going to come in here and wave a magic wand to bring the program back. Our roster was at it's darkest depths, likely since the 70s, when Dooley came on board. For anyone to expect the program to be competing for the SEC championship within just a couple of years is ludicrous.

I remember Johnny Majors proclaiming, "The cupboard is bare" when he returned. The cupboard was bare again.

The team Saban inherited at Alabama was more talented than the team Dooley inherited.

I believe we are improving, and in the end, that is all you can ask.

 

[First&Tenn]

Saban also beat two top 10 teams and never had a losing record in conference in his first 3 years at Michigan St.

#7 Michigan in 1995 & #4 Penn State in 1997

If Dooley beats Bama and USCe (to get to two top 10 wins) this year, I doubt you will see many people still down on his coaching ability.

 

[theFallGuy]

Well let's be fair here.

George Perles at Michigan State 1994. They went 0 -11.

Saban turned that around to 6-5 with a bowl game.

 

[DC Vol]

Well let's be fair here.

George Perles at Michigan State 1994. They went 0 -11.

Saban turned that around to 6-5 with a bowl game.

Perles was horrible in his last 4 years but the last year at MSU was actually something like 4-7. They vacated the season due to a probation or scandal or somesuch.

EDIT: *Michigan State forfeited its entire 1994 schedule after an academic scandal; record was 5-6 (4-4 Big Ten).

 

[theFallGuy]

Perles was horrible in his last 4 years but the last year at MSU was actually something like 4-7. They vacated the season due to a probation or scandal or somesuch.

EDIT: *Michigan State forfeited its entire 1994 schedule after an academic scandal; record was 5-6 (4-4 Big Ten).

thx for the info, didnt kno that

 

[D'burg vol fan]

So the OP is requesting the fans to expect to wait 2 more years for an increase in wins? Remember this is year 2, because for some reason his first year was year zero.

 

[VOLywood]

So the OP is requesting the fans to expect to wait 2 more years for an increase in wins? Remember this is year 2, because for some reason his first year was year zero.

I'm saying that marginal improvement in records through the first few seasons is to be expected until the coach can gel with a staff, work toward changing the culture of the program and get his own recruiting classes up through the cycles. We should expect to see drastic improvement within the next 1 or 2 seasons if he is good at what he does.

 

[Scootervol]

Wow. Saban went backward in year 4 at MSU and year 3 at LSU. Wonder what I would have done had I been AD. But Im not an AD, and the only thing I can do is sit on my couch and root for my favorite team every Saturday. Am i frustrated? Yes. Do I have the ability to change our head coach if I post multiple times on here that he should go? No. So I choose to keep pulling for my Vols just like I did with Majors, Fulmer, Kiffin (yes still was a fan) and now Dooley. VB

 

[spudvol]

Mark Twain Memoir to Ben Franklin

I merely desired to do away with somewhat of the prevalent calamitous idea among heads of families that Franklin acquired his great genius by working for nothing, studying by moonlight, and getting up in the night instead of waiting til morning like a Christian, and that this programme, rigidly inflicted, will make a Franklin of every father's fool. It is time these gentlemen were finding out that these execrable eccentricities of instinct and conduct are only the evidences of genius, not the creators of it. I wish I had been the father of my parents long enough to make them comprehend this truth, and thus prepare them to let their son have an easier time of it. When I was a child I had to boil soap, notwithstanding my father was wealthy, and I had to get up early and study geometry at breakfast, and peddle my own poetry, and do everything just as Franklin did, in the solemn hope that I would be a Franklin some day. And here I am.

And here we are.

Link

 

[PanicVol]

I'm saying that marginal improvement in records through the first few seasons is to be expected until the coach can gel with a staff, work toward changing the culture of the program and get his own recruiting classes up through the cycles. We should expect to see drastic improvement within the next 1 or 2 seasons if he is good at what he does.

Its hard to gel with a staff when they leave for Washington.

 

[FlyFishnVol]

All good points, again, there are going to be two sides to the coaching issues. I've given up on those who do not like this coaching staff. I am supporting them and cheering for vicitory every game.......because that is what fans do.

GBO!!!

 

[Vols4us]

All good points, again, there are going to be two sides to the coaching issues. I've given up on those who do not like this coaching staff. I am supporting them and cheering for vicitory every game.......because that is what fans do.

GBO!!!

Only winning consistently and at a high level in the SEC will unify the UT fans. When Dools improves to at least 4-4 in the SEC, then your comments might actually mean something. Acceptance of the ship sinking does not stop the ship from sinking.

 

[old wise one]

what was mich state record before saban got there and what was lsu record before he got there?


maybe even go back to the last 2 years before he got there?

and look at the record before dooley got here?

think that some of those teams went to bowl games and some did not and even think some of those bowl games might have been wins do not know for sure on saban's end.

i know for damn sure what our record was before dooley got here and all about the bowl game before he got here.


the op is crazy to even compare dooley to saban, come on man you really think that dooley will win nation championships let alone one , hell i even take a sec east championship. we are what now i really do not want to know or remember the anwser to this question, our record in the sec for the last 4 or 5 years after the first 2 games? i pretty sure it is 0-2.

come on man what is our record against the sec since he has gotten here.

dammm i need to stop and support the coaches and players. we had our chance sat to pull the upset that is about all i can say. as bad as the defense played, they did what they needed to in the 4qt and our beloved offense and bray let us down.


it is on to miss state and i say lets OPEN A CAN OF WHOOP --- ON THE BULLDOGS THIS TIME
WE HAVE TO HAVE THIS WIN NEXT WEEK!

GO VOLS

 

[volboy81]

For everyone ready to "fire Dooley," I suggest you take a look at the history of how a coach begins a career in major conference football when inheriting a sub-par or mediocre team. Let's just compare the start of Dooley's career at a big-time football school to...hmmm, how about Nick Saban.

Nick Saban
Michigan State
1995: 6-5-1
1996: 6-6
1997: 7-5
1998: 6-6
1999: 9-2

LSU
2000: 8-4
2001: 10-3
2002: 8-5
2003: 13-1
2004: 9-3


Derek Dooley
Tennessee
2010: 6-7 (including 2 "questionable" losses)
2011: 5-7
2012: 3-2 (after 5 games)

So what can we learn from this comparison? Saban showed marginal improvement during his first 4 seasons at Michigan State, and it wasn't until his 5th year (imagine that...recruiting cycles) that you see his full impact on the program. Then he takes over at LSU...not a huge difference. He inherits an above-average program and shows marginal improvement until his 4th year.

This same type of pattern is showing itself under Derek Dooley at UT. Instead of inheriting a mediocre program, he inherited a train wreck. We are slowly watching the the culture of the program change and although there is marginal difference in the W/L record, you can't argue that we are not putting a more competitive football team on the field each week. If we let Dooley go before years 4 and 5, we are making a huge mistake. Coaches grow in their profession and perfect their craft just like every other type of career. Saban is a master at the craft of coaching, no doubt about it. We hired someone at the early stages of their career and will more than likely have a Saban on our hands in few more seasons. Are there growing pains? Yes. But the journey is still fun and if we might just end up with a legacy coach that establishes the future of a storied program. Don't count out Dooley!

Go Big Orange! #VFL

EXCELLENT post! And people just dont get the cyclical thing! Does anyone remember LSU had 6 or 7 straight losing seasons in the 90s or that ala was winless at home one year & lost to teams like USM, N Ill & ULM in other yrs. also in the 90s, Texas, Oklahoma, USC, WV, Ok State & others were horrible! Now look at them! PATIENCE!!!!!! I know the younger generation (under 35) doesnt know the definition of that word, but its time to learn it!!