Stupid At This Level Has No Party

[OHvol40]

Sure you have. Going ostrich hasn't changed that you're ignoring anything useful for the broken and expensive, union addled status quo.

All I have heard is "execute teachers". This is the answer to a broken govenmental system? No.

 

[BigPapaVol]

All I have heard is "execute teachers". This is the answer to a broken govenmental system? No.

No it isn't. You've heard teacher accountability and balked likea union goon at every turn.

 

[OHvol40]

No it isn't. You've heard teacher accountability and balked likea union goon at every turn.

So you are about the 6th one to take the union busting route. Any other takers?

Instead of trying to do away with something you know isn't going anywhere, how about offering up something that actually CAN be done?

Btw, no balks here. I believe I explained exactly why I think your form of "accountability" is hogwash.

 

[OHvol40]

Yes. Greedy workers form unions. We agree on something.

Weird how most workers aren't part of unions, and they don't get trampled on.

I think you should read about Andrew Carnegie.

 

[BigPapaVol]

So you are about the 6th one to take the union busting route. Any other takers?

Instead of trying to do away with something you know isn't going anywhere, how about offering up something that actually CAN be done?

Btw, no balks here. I believe I explained exactly why I think your form of "accountability" is hogwash.

So. Acting like accountability is impossible is what union douchebags do. It doesn't mean it right and it makes the union mentality no less insidious.

 

[OHvol40]

So. Acting like accountability is impossible is what union douchebags do. It doesn't mean it right and it makes the union mentality no less insidious.

I've also explained my stance on unions and clearly stated that I comprehend both sides. It's not a perfect science. Can we move on?

Also, I never said accountability is impossible, I actually think its necessary. The proposed form of accountability ive heard is laughable though.

Repubs like to bash on the large number of welfare bums in this country, but they want these same people making decisions about the qualifications of the educators of our youth?

 

[BigPapaVol]

Who advocated welfare bums? Using such a red herring is what you've done the entire day to make accountability appear unmanageable. You've nearly exhausted the goons' list. At some point, you'll have to think for yourself.

 

[OHvol40]

Who advocated welfare bums? Using such a red herring is what you've done the entire day to make accountability appear unmanageable. You've nearly exhausted the goons' list. At some point, you'll have to think for yourself.

Just because I don't accept right wing educational reform means I'm not thinking? Got it. Seems like an oxymoron to me but ok.

The REALITY is that too many parents are not truly invested enough in a child's education.

 

[n_huffhines]

So you are about the 6th one to take the union busting route. Any other takers?

Instead of trying to do away with something you know isn't going anywhere, how about offering up something that actually CAN be done?

Btw, no balks here. I believe I explained exactly why I think your form of "accountability" is hogwash.

Poor little guy is so picked on.

What do you expect? You are defending the people that lobby to forcefully take from my wallet, against my will, and then they use it in a way I find wasteful. Then they pretend like I'm waging a war on them when I want to introduce choice into K-12 education, and when I want teachers to be held accountable as if it were the real world.

You know there's probably a reason that collective bargaining is the one legal enterprise that is widely shared by organized crime syndicates.

 

[tumscalcium]

Nobody wants to surrender power. But most people I know don't want to go back to the bush era. Romney = bush but with a teapublican as a running mate. Oh well,,,we're gonna have 4 more years of Obama,,not a bad thing. The bad thing is 4 more years of an idiotic congress.

Lol. You should save that material for your stand-up.

 

[82_VOL_83]

This is why I said I'm done talking about unions. Here comes the "union members stomp on daisys and eat babies" brigade.

We were having a decent banter but now look what you did.....

Anyways, I'm glad all of you here in this beautiful RED state of ours can sit around and agree with eachother.

Maybe you can tell me some more riddles about multiple men showing wedding tackle.

No, just trying to get you to see that unions protect jobs because they pay dues not because they give one rats ass about the employees. But you continue to live in your world negotiated by someone else. I didn't think you had the guts to even try and answer the question I asked. And, even though it was transparent, it was an actual event that occurred BEFORE FOX and probably before you. So when you feel like an adult, we can talk about what goes on with unions.

 

[82_VOL_83]

I still have not heard another usefull solution to the problems in the educational system. Just the same old gripes and rhetoric.

Yes, and once more you are proof there is a difference between hearing and listening.

 

[OHvol40]

Poor little guy is so picked on.

What do you expect? You are defending the people that lobby to forcefully take from my wallet, against my will, and then they use it in a way I find wasteful. Then they pretend like I'm waging a war on them when I want to introduce choice into K-12 education, and when I want teachers to be held accountable as if it were the real world.

You know there's probably a reason that collective bargaining is the one legal enterprise that is widely shared by organized crime syndicates.

So little miss teacher down the road is robbing you blind, wasting your money, living in a fantasy land, and needs to be held accountable for her despicable existence? Get real.

What about the administrations? Instead of this wretched spending on new sports facilities, paying 5 special education teachers to handle 15 kids, and "earning" 200k-400k salaries, we actually make them do educational administrative work.

THEY hire teachers. THEY are in charge of monitoring teachers. Just like in your "real world". Your boss is held accountable for hiring the right people and making sure they do the job once hired.

 

[TheDeeble]

THEY hire teachers. THEY are in charge of monitoring teachers. Just like in your "real world". Your boss is held accountable for hiring the right people and making sure they do the job once hired.

And can't do a dang thing about it if the employees's performance is abysmal but are in a union. "Protecting workers" has gone from preventing substandard working conditions to job protection no matter what their performance.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Just because I don't accept right wing educational reform means I'm not thinking? Got it. Seems like an oxymoron to me but ok.

The REALITY is that too many parents are not truly invested enough in a child's education.

No actually the oxymoron is the fact that you think that unions and employees that are held accountable and must work to a high standard can co-exist. They are mutually exclusive. Employees of high standard realize that they earn their money and are not willing to give it to someone that claims to care for them. On the other hand, those that want a free ride and protection from their incompetence are more than happy to pay the fees to their "representatives" to keep their jobs. Unfortunately, in areas such as the left wing supported educational system, good teachers are forced to join unions by intimidation at even the highest levels of the local systems. It's a shame when non-union supervision will intimidate an employee to join a union just to keep the waters calm. And yes it happens, and yes I have first hand knowledge of it here in our "red" state.

 

[82_VOL_83]

And can't do a dang thing about it if the employees's performance is abysmal but are in a union. "Protecting workers" has gone from preventing substandard working conditions to job protection no matter what their performance.

Hey, she (and yes, unfortunately this argument just feels like arguing with a girl, not an adult who happens to be female, a girl) wouldn't answer my question about the two employees, she obviously isn't going to answer to reason. She is also so obviously left wing that she won't even listen to you and others that are avowed middle of the road people and not affiliated with either "party".

 

[n_huffhines]

So little miss teacher down the road is robbing you blind, wasting your money, living in a fantasy land, and needs to be held accountable for her despicable existence? Get real.

What about the administrations? Instead of this wretched spending on new sports facilities, paying 5 special education teachers to handle 15 kids, and "earning" 200k-400k salaries, we actually make them do educational administrative work.

THEY hire teachers. THEY are in charge of monitoring teachers. Just like in your "real world". Your boss is held accountable for hiring the right people and making sure they do the job once hired.

Here's how the real world works:

If I don't do my job my boss fires me. There is no union that is going to defend my defenseless position. Principals may not even try to fill vacancies for fear they may hire a bad teacher that they cannot fire.

In the real world if some customer tells my boss, "I think it's stupid that my son can't wear his Peyton Manning jersey in your office." my boss will care. That's not how it works at schools. They don't care about pleasing parents, they just want them to be quiet. Teachers aren't bad people, it's just that everyone responds to incentives, and their incentives are in conflict with the interests of the general public.

 

[OHvol40]

And can't do a dang thing about it if the employees's performance is abysmal but are in a union. "Protecting workers" has gone from preventing substandard working conditions to job protection no matter what their performance.

Why can't they? It's their job.
Why not use an evaluation period for all hired teachers where they are hired as substitutes and closely evaluated before being considered for a permanent job?

Don't act like the administrators are powerless, for the past 4 years most administrators have been making regular cuts non stop. They can determine which programs to cut, and unless a teacher is qualified to bump somebody in another department, they have no protection.

You fools trying to tell me that the poor little education administrations are powerless against the mean old union need to turn off Rush and get a reality check.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Why can't they? It's their job.
Why not use an evaluation period for all hired teachers where they are hired as substitutes and closely evaluated before being considered for a permanent job?

Don't act like the administrators are powerless, for the past 4 years most administrators have been making regular cuts non stop. They can determine which programs to cut, and unless a teacher is qualified to bump somebody in another department, they have no protection.

You fools trying to tell me that the poor little education administrations are powerless against the mean old union need to turn off Rush and get a reality check.

So now the young one resorts to calling the non-union folks fools. You know, I don't know where your very limited experience with unions comes from, but I have been working with them since I graduated from UT the second time. And that is longer than most of the regular VN posters are old. When you start calling someone who has seen everything that they have posted about actually happen numerous times a fool, you need to get your own reality check. Because unless you are a little rich princess that doesn't really work for a living (which is EXACTLY how you are coming across), the world is going to reach out and slap you silly one of these days.

 

[OHvol40]

Hey, she (and yes, unfortunately this argument just feels like arguing with a girl, not an adult who happens to be female, a girl) wouldn't answer my question about the two employees, she obviously isn't going to answer to reason. She is also so obviously left wing that she won't even listen to you and others that are avowed middle of the road people and not affiliated with either "party".

I explained my stance on unions. Take it or leave it. I don't care.

I guess one way to deal with me not agreeing with you is to call me a girl and attack me personally though.

Exactly why nothing gets done in this country. You get your marching orders... "hate everything that looks, sounds like, or resembles a liberal and beat them to death with these key issues"

Apparently your liberal radar is a little off though. I voted for Reagan and Bush I.

I really don't care what you think about unions. I care about our education system.

 

[OHvol40]

So now the young one resorts to calling the non-union folks fools. You know, I don't know where your very limited experience with unions comes from, but I have been working with them since I graduated from UT the second time. And that is longer than most of the regular VN posters are old. When you start calling someone who has seen everything that they have posted about actually happen numerous times a fool, you need to get your own reality check. Because unless you are a little rich princess that doesn't really work for a living (which is EXACTLY how you are coming across), the world is going to reach out and slap you silly one of these days.

That's a great story grandpa.

Don't pretend to know the first thing about me.

Remember, you are personally attacking me, not the other way around. We were talking policy and apparently this is what you have resorted to.

 

[82_VOL_83]

That's a great story grandpa.

Don't pretend to know the first thing about me.I know all I need to from your posts. Very much the same way you pretend to know all about everyone else that disagrees with you.

Remember, you are personally attacking me No, you are the one calling people fools. No one else has called anyone names., not the other way around. We were talking policy and apparently this is what you have resorted to.

I simply made a statement about you from the tone of your posts. You SOUND like a little idealistic rich girl. If you want to be taken as something other than that, quit whining and make a point instead of telling everyone else their points are stupid. You are the only one calling people names here. Get your facts straight and come back with an honest reply. You need to reread your posts or edit them so that they fit your limited world view.

 

[82_VOL_83]

OH, I'm still waiting for you to answer the question that I posed earlier tonight. What does your refusal to do so say other than you don't have a defensible position on unions?

 

[OHvol40]

I simply made a statement about you from the tone of your posts. You SOUND like a little idealistic rich girl. If you want to be taken as something other than that, quit whining and make a point instead of telling everyone else their points are stupid. You are the only one calling people names here. Get your facts straight and come back with an honest reply. You need to reread your posts or edit them so that they fit your limited world view.

I'm not repeating myself on unions. I told you how I feel. If you can't read, that's your problem. If you don't like it, again, your problem.

You are playing this name-calling game. I didn't call YOU anything. YOU took the liberty of lumping yourself in with the fools. Not me.

YOU, again, have reduced a debate on policy to a juvenile, name-calling ramble.

 

[OHvol40]

OH, I'm still waiting for you to answer the question that I posed earlier tonight. What does your refusal to do so say other than you don't have a defensible position on unions?

I don't care that a couple of closet-dwelling employees embarrassed themselves, and i dont care what happened to them. You can take that to the grave for all I care.