What are UT like when firing coaches?

#1
stephenk24

stephenk24

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#1
Hey guys,

my second season as a vols fan is just about to start, all i keep hearing about is Dooley on the hot seat...

I still don't know too much about our past, so i want to know what ut are like when firing coaches? Will we be more likely to fire coaches mid season or are we likely to wait until the end of the year?

This isn't because i think Dooley should go, i really like him but I want to know if to expect an early exit of his duty if we lose games early.

Also who would likely replace him, a coordinator? (if the worst came to the worst)

Cheers,

Stephen.
 
#2
#2
Phillip Fulmer was fired before the season was over and he was the head coach for 17 years! Granted, he was able to finish the year, but was told to get his bags packed prior to the end of the season.

If things are that bad at UT this year, I have little doubt they would pull the trigger mid season.

With that, things are not going to be that bad and in fact, Dooley will be in conversation for COY this year.
 
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#3
#3
It's really case by case situation. If this season were to completely go into the dumps by mid season you could see a change. At that point generally whoever the Associate Head Coach takes over temporarily but it could be a Coordinator too. My guess would be Chaney because he's been here the longest and holds the highest position at that point. You would also do this to go ahead and just start the head coaching search. The quicker you get a head coach in the better it is for recruiting.

In Tennessee's situation though, we've never really hired and fired a lot of coaches. There's been a lot of stability except the last 3 or 4 years. This is really uncommon territory for our Athletics department.
 
#4
#4
Hard to look at the past for something like this, as every situation seems different from the last. That being said, I have a hard time believing Dooley would get canned mid-season unless he loses to Akron/GSU or something awful happens off the field (ex: Petrino).

My money is on him having a solid season and getting an extension.
 
#5
#5
Stevorino said:
Hard to look at the past for something like this, as every situation seems different from the last. That being said, I have a hard time believing Dooley would get canned mid-season unless he loses to Akron/GSU or something awful happens off the field (ex: Petrino).

My money is on him having a solid season and getting an extension.
Click to expand...

He'll deserve an extension when he shows he can bring Tennessee to a CHAMPIONSHIP level consistently, not just having solid seasons.
 
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#6
#6
Opinion:

If Dooley lays an egg this year, he will finish the regular season but will not coach a bowl if they get one. I think he should win a minimum of 8 to keep the job but really think this roster is worth 9 or more wins. I suspect that 7 wins will keep him for one more year however.

There are many pie in the sky names thrown around as far as replacements go. Kirby Smart is a likely candidate but his pedigree isn't all that different from Dooley's. Yes he has coordinator experience but DD had been an HC and AD. Both are Saban disciples so you would probably be trading Dooley for Dooley Part Deux.

More than likely, someone will emerge as the new "hot commodity" coach this year then become the #1 choice.
 
#7
#7
What's up Steven! Good to see a VFL from across the pond. To answer your question, fortunately we don't have a lot to go on in that we have only had 22 coaches in a 121 year history. Between Johnny Majors and Phil Fulmer, we had only 2 coaches for 31 years(1977-2008). So there really isn't a protocol or a standard to go by when analyzing how or when UT would let a coach go.

I would imagine the best answer would be to analyze Dooley's boss(i.e. the Athletic Director). In this case, what little I know about Dave Hart, I would imagine he would wait until after the regular season to announce if a change was being made. I think he realizes how catastorphic it would be to future recruits, current players, potential coaching hires, fans, boosters etc. to get rid of Dooley mid season.

Our previous AD showed how well that worked when he quickly pushed Fulmer out the door only to not have his successor in place until a later time. I trust Hart will do the right thing.
 
#8
#8
It really depends on how bad things are going as to whether or not Doolz would get fired midseason. If we are just terrible they could temporarily replace him midseason with either Sunseri or Chaney. (My money would be on Chaney)

That's my two cents. Hope it helps.
 
#9
#9
sjt18 said:
Opinion:

If Dooley lays an egg this year, he will finish the regular season but will not coach a bowl if they get one. I think he should win a minimum of 8 to keep the job but really think this roster is worth 9 or more wins. I suspect that 7 wins will keep him for one more year however.

There are many pie in the sky names thrown around as far as replacements go. Kirby Smart is a likely candidate but his pedigree isn't all that different from Dooley's. Yes he has coordinator experience but DD had been an HC and AD. Both are Saban disciples so you would probably be trading Dooley for Dooley Part Deux.

More than likely, someone will emerge as the new "hot commodity" coach this year then become the #1 choice.
Click to expand...

If there isn't a hot coaching hire out there I would imagine Dooley gets another year. No reason to get rid of a middle of the road coach and have to pay 5.5 mil to get another one. I really think Dooley gets a 4th year barring not having another season like last year.
 
#10
#10
AstonRoyal said:
He'll deserve an extension when he shows he can bring Tennessee to a CHAMPIONSHIP level consistently, not just having solid seasons.
Click to expand...

I didn't realize he has through 2015 on his contract.... so I take back the extension part. :)
 
#12
#12
sjt18 said:
Opinion:

If Dooley lays an egg this year, he will finish the regular season but will not coach a bowl if they get one. I think he should win a minimum of 8 to keep the job but really think this roster is worth 9 or more wins. I suspect that 7 wins will keep him for one more year however.

There are many pie in the sky names thrown around as far as replacements go. Kirby Smart is a likely candidate but his pedigree isn't all that different from Dooley's. Yes he has coordinator experience but DD had been an HC and AD. Both are Saban disciples so you would probably be trading Dooley for Dooley Part Deux.

More than likely, someone will emerge as the new "hot commodity" coach this year then become the #1 choice.
Click to expand...

I'm kind of with you I dont buy into this whole Kirby Smart thing. Just because you're a Saban coordinator doesn't mean you're a great head coach.

I'd be interested in Art Briles from Baylor because he's shown that he can recruit and did pretty well at Houston before RG3. Maybe even Kyle Whittingham from Utah too?
 
#13
#13
AstonRoyal said:
He'll deserve an extension when he shows he can bring Tennessee to a CHAMPIONSHIP level consistently, not just having solid seasons.
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:no:

An extension doesn't mean he gets to stay forever. It simply recognizes market value and makes sure that you can keep a coach you want to keep. I doubt that buyouts on either side would be as big as the initial contract.

Considering the burning dung heap of a program he inherited, a 9-3 record would more than likely be viewed as enough to give him an extension. If he added a bowl on top, it definitely would. In all likelihood, he will get a 1 year extension if he wins 8.
 
#14
#14
sjt18 said:
:no:

An extension doesn't mean he gets to stay forever. It simply recognizes market value and makes sure that you can keep a coach you want to keep. I doubt that buyouts on either side would be as big as the initial contract.

Considering the burning dung heap of a program he inherited, a 9-3 record would more than likely be viewed as enough to give him an extension. If he added a bowl on top, it definitely would. In all likelihood, he will get a 1 year extension if he wins 8.
Click to expand...

That was the mindset when we gave Fulmer his extension right before we fired him and have to deal with the buyout of his contract. Now the Athletics department is in a deficit. I don't think the Tennessee athletics can afford to throw around anymore money especially with the debt that we owe.
 
#15
#15
sjt18 said:
:no:

An extension doesn't mean he gets to stay forever. It simply recognizes market value and makes sure that you can keep a coach you want to keep. I doubt that buyouts on either side would be as big as the initial contract.

Considering the burning dung heap of a program he inherited, a 9-3 record would more than likely be viewed as enough to give him an extension. If he added a bowl on top, it definitely would. In all likelihood, he will get a 1 year extension if he wins 8.
Click to expand...

If he has through 2015, I can see an extension but I can also see a raise for the remaining time left as well.

If Dooley has a strong season, I think Hart would have to do something to publicly acknowledge it.
 
#17
#17
I agree with others that it would really have to crater for him to be let go mid season. History says it could happen but I don't think it's likely. Most fans want him to succeed, whether they like him or not, because they want UT to win. So I think he will be given every opportunity to do that. If we happen to really suck though, he'll be gone.
 
#18
#18
AstonRoyal said:
That was the mindset when we gave Fulmer his extension right before we fired him and have to deal with the buyout of his contract. Now the Athletics department is in a deficit. I don't think the Tennessee athletics can afford to throw around anymore money especially with the debt that we owe.
Click to expand...

The deficit is what - $4million? When the budget is $100m, that's not that bad...especially considering the economy and the team's performance last year.

If the Vols have a winning season, the deficit is over in 2012.
 
#19
#19
stephenk24 said:
Hey guys,

my second season as a vols fan is just about to start, all i keep hearing about is Dooley on the hot seat...

I still don't know too much about our past, so i want to know what ut are like when firing coaches? Will we be more likely to fire coaches mid season or are we likely to wait until the end of the year?

This isn't because i think Dooley should go, i really like him but I want to know if to expect an early exit of his duty if we lose games early.

Also who would likely replace him, a coordinator? (if the worst came to the worst)

Cheers,

Stephen.
Click to expand...

Dickey resigned after the season

Battle was fired after the season

Majors was fired near end of October.

Fulmer was fired near end of October.

Kiffin resigned in January.

that history goes back to 1970.
 
#20
#20
Stevorino said:
The deficit is what - $4million? When the budget is $100m, that's not that bad...especially considering the economy and the team's performance last year.

If the Vols have a winning season, the deficit is over in 2012.
Click to expand...

Expenses were more than revenues. That's all you need to know. It doesn't make sense business wise to give a extension/raise if has one good year, but still leaves us above average for 3 more. Not only are you setting back your program but with a higher contact comes higher buyout whenever you have to fire them. Also don't forget about the 200 million debt the Athletics depart is in. That's gonna play a hand into when the deficit will be over.

But I'm with everyone here. I want Dooley to show that he can win championships and stay here for 20+ years. This whole changing coaches thing every 5 years is not my thing.
 
#21
#21
AstonRoyal said:
That was the mindset when we gave Fulmer his extension right before we fired him and have to deal with the buyout of his contract. Now the Athletics department is in a deficit. I don't think the Tennessee athletics can afford to throw around anymore money especially with the debt that we owe.
Click to expand...

But you have to calculate that out. If you see progress then you don't want to lose someone who is doing a good job over refusal to give them an extension. That would cost even more money or you could end up with a coach that squanders the progress and makes things worse.

The terms of Fulmer's extension was inexplicable for anyone who was paying attention. His recruiting and especially on the lines had fallen to nothing. Discipline was ridiculous. He figured out a way to back into the SEC CG basically by managing a weak schedule except for 2 SEC games: UF, Bama. Anyone with half a brain could see that lean years were coming due to the line recruiting. Fulmer left one true DT on the roster when he was fired. IIRC, that guy was a 3* OL as a recruit.

The 07 season was wrongly perceived as Fulmer turning things around. He should have gotten an extension but the raise and buyout were just stupid.
 
#23
#23
Interesting. thanks guys. It does interest me, when it comes to how teams deal with losing. I want Dooley to last, i really like him as a person and coach...

When you talk about being a Saban disciple, do you mean that they were taught by him or they adopt the same style of coaching?
 
#25
#25
stephenk24 said:
Lol my mistake. Thank god you are here pick holes in posts typed on a phone man...
Click to expand...

Give them heck Stephen!!!

Dools ain't going nowhere. We got too much money tied up with seven new assistant coaches who mostly have 3 year contracts. Plus we are going to win 11 games so then the question becomes a moot point.


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"Mind the Gap!"
 
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