Atlanta Braves III

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#4,176
#4,176
Vercingetorix said:
I think that the Braves organization is A) not very good at realistically evaluating how good they are, and B) under some pressure to make a move to go for a title in Chipper's last year. That's a dangerous combination.
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That would have been done in the Greinke trade. Frank already passed. I don't see any "dangerous" mistake out there. Delgado for Dempster would be inexplicably stupid, but not kill us in the long haul. Delgado is probably and realitically a 4, and while that has value, we're stocked with them organizationally.
 
#4,177
#4,177
TBrown said:
That's a given. I am a well documented Frank Wren guy.
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I gave him the benefit of the doubt for several years because of the ownership, but now I've seen enough to decide. It was stupid to stand pat this offseason. It was stupid to have been willing to trade Delgado for Dempster. It has been stupid to keep Fredi Gonzalez around. Good decisions aren't being made.
 
#4,178
#4,178
Delgado for dempster didn't and hasn't and (highly doubt) wont happen. I personally have no problem with Francisco. He hits HRs every time frediot writes his name on the card. Frank doesn't put constanza in the game. His trading track record has been phenomenal.
 
#4,180
#4,180
TBrown said:
That would have been done in the Greinke trade. Frank already passed. I don't see any "dangerous" mistake out there. Delgado for Dempster would be inexplicably stupid, but not kill us in the long haul. Delgado is probably and realitically a 4, and while that has value, we're stocked with them organizationally.
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Stocked? By April the Braves need three of their starters, all of whom have huge question marks right now, to fill out the rotation behind Hudson and Hanson. Delgado's probably the most likely of all of them to be ready. You can't just give him away on a crapshoot with Dempster.

They were stocked a few months ago. Not anymore.
 
#4,181
#4,181
Vercingetorix said:
Stocked? By April the Braves need three of their starters, all of whom have huge question marks right now, to fill out the rotation behind Hudson and Hanson. Delgado's probably the most likely of all of them to be ready. You can't just give him away on a crapshoot with Dempster.

They were stocked a few months ago. Not anymore.
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There's a lot of time to play out and money to be spent between now and April. As much as I dont care for him, Minor will plug into the back of this rotation. Graham, Spreill, Gilmartin, etc. there's plenty 4/5 types down there. We need an ace.

Edit: I'm in no way advocating Delgado for dempster. It would be an awful trade. I'm saying Delgado isn't making or breaking this organization, I'm saying it would be terrible value. So far, frank has proven good with value.
 
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#4,182
#4,182
TBrown said:
Delgado for dempster didn't and hasn't and (highly doubt) wont happen. I personally have no problem with Francisco. He hits HRs every time frediot writes his name on the card. Frank doesn't put constanza in the game. His trading track record has been phenomenal.
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Everybody in baseball reported Delgado for Dempster was a done deal until Dempster vetoed it. Just because he got a do-over doesn't mean Wren shouldn't be excoriated for it.

If you think that adding Juan Francisco counts as a good offseason move then there's probably no point breaking any of Wren's moves down any further.
 
#4,183
#4,183
Vercingetorix said:
If you think that adding Juan Francisco counts as a good offseason move then there's probably no point breaking any of Wren's moves down any further.
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lay on me the grand upgrade. The starting 8 is, was, and has always been set. The budget is putrid. And everyone and their mother thought we were loaded with pitching. What do you want?
 
#4,184
#4,184
TBrown said:
There's a lot of time to play out and money to be spent between now and April. As much as I dont care for him, Minor will plug into the back of this rotation. Graham, Spreill, Gilmartin, etc. there's plenty 4/5 types down there. We need an ace.
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Who's going to pitch in the major leagues in April? This isn't about how many bodies are in the organization. This is about filling out a major league rotation in seven months. Delgado's been iffy. Vizcaino's hurt. Teheran is a train wreck. The FA market for starters just got blown apart.

Agree they need an ace, but the fact that Wren and the Braves are willing to squint hard across the bar and convince themselves that Demspter's close enough to an ace is what's so disturbing.
 
#4,185
#4,185
TBrown said:
lay on me the grand upgrade. The starting 8 is, was, and has always been set. The budget is putrid. And everyone and their mother thought we were loaded with pitching. What do you want?
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I think the only real criticism is going into Opening Day with Tyler Pastornicky at SS. That just shouldn't have happened. He looked marginal at best at the plate and overmatched defensively from day 1.
 
#4,186
#4,186
Only thing we needed was a SS, and that was handled internally. Apparently they tried for Cody Ross, but he went elsewhere. There really wasn't much to do. Maybe another Bullpen arm, but that is something that can added if needed in season. Which is what will probably happen.
 
#4,187
#4,187
GAVol said:
I think the only real criticism is going into Opening Day with Tyler Pastornicky at SS. That just shouldn't have happened. He looked marginal at best at the plate and overmatched defensively from day 1.
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I agree. But we don't know what their opinion of Simmons was..it's clear that they wanted someone for a year at most. Simmons was obviously the guy, he just needed more seasoning. I'd say that turned out pretty true.
 
#4,188
#4,188
allvol_12 said:
Only thing we needed was a SS, and that was handled internally. Apparently they tried for Cody Ross, but he went elsewhere. There really wasn't much to do. Maybe another Bullpen arm, but that is something that can added if needed in season. Which is what will probably happen.
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If we get Cody Ross and platoon him with Heyward, well.......

Otherwise, where do you play him? He isn't coming here to sit. I strongly dislike Diaz and I think Hinske has pretty much run his course, but Cody Ross isn't going anywhere as a FA to sit
 
#4,189
#4,189
TBrown said:
lay on me the grand upgrade. The starting 8 is, was, and has always been set. The budget is putrid. And everyone and their mother thought we were loaded with pitching. What do you want?
Click to expand...

The safest bet in baseball was that Chipper would miss 40 percent of the Braves' games this year. And yet Wren did absolutely nothing to prepare for it. The bench is a travesty. Everyone on it is a 25th man. When you fail to address the most obvious need in the game, that's an abject failure.
 
#4,190
#4,190
TBrown said:
If we get Cody Ross and platoon him with Heyward, well.......

Otherwise, where do you play him? He isn't coming here to sit. I strongly dislike Diaz and I think Hinske has pretty much run his course, but Cody Ross isn't going anywhere as a FA to sit
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I was just saying they tried for him according to Ross. He seen a better opportunity in Boston with Crawford out.

You know Fredi would have tried that though.
 
#4,192
#4,192
Vercingetorix said:
The safest bet in baseball was that Chipper would miss 40 percent of the Braves' games this year. And yet Wren did absolutely nothing to prepare for it. The bench is a travesty. Everyone on it is a 25th man. When you fail to address the most obvious need in the game, that's an abject failure.
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I don't think Ross or Francisco are 25. Diaz and Hinske were under contract. Need a backup SS. Like I said, idk what else you want. Rolled the dice and Chipper's health and knock on wood..

It's a pretty damn good team, all things considered.
 
#4,193
#4,193
Vercingetorix said:
The safest bet in baseball was that Chipper would miss 40 percent of the Braves' games this year. And yet Wren did absolutely nothing to prepare for it. The bench is a travesty. Everyone on it is a 25th man. When you fail to address the most obvious need in the game, that's an abject failure.
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I'll concede the bench to some degree, although I don't think anybody expected Hinske to all off a cliff the way he has. Ross and Frncisco have been OK. They definitely need to be better at the 4th OF spot though.
 
#4,194
#4,194
TBrown said:
I don't think Ross or Francisco are 25. Diaz and Hinske were under contract. Need a backup SS. Like I said, idk what else you want. Rolled the dice and Chipper's health and knock on wood..

It's a pretty damn good team, all things considered.
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I want a general manager who's smart enough not to roll the dice on the stupidest best in baseball. It was obvious all offseason that the Braves needed to add a fourth outfielder who could play 70-80 games and provide some offense. Now it's not even August, and the Braves have already had to give 400 plate appearances to three guys who hit like Brooks Conrad.

Putting together a bench is not glamorous, but that's where good GMs prove their worth. Wren has shanked it.
 
#4,196
#4,196
Ross isn't a 25th man, obviously, but he doesn't really count because he effectively only backs up one man. He doesn't help at all with the bench crunch caused by depending on a part-time starter.
 
#4,197
#4,197
I don't know what you expect from a GM who can't pay Andruw Jones, Raul Ibanez, and Eric Chavez to sit the bench.
 
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#4,200
#4,200
GAVol said:
I'll concede the bench to some degree, although I don't think anybody expected Hinske to all off a cliff the way he has. Ross and Frncisco have been OK. They definitely need to be better at the 4th OF spot though.
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He was bad last year at age 33. It shouldn't take a genius to anticipate that marginal, bench-riding players in their mid 30s are likely to decline. Cf. Matt Diaz.

400 plate appearances and counting for these losers. It's like taking Freddie Freeman and replacing him with Scott Thorman.
 
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