Coach Martin vs. Coach Dooley (merged)

[supersmo18]

If I was the AD at Tennessee and I was informed that I could only keep one, of either Dooley or Martin, I'd take Martin as it is now.

Martin seems to be a young coach on the rise, and if he can recruit, I see him winning big.

Dooley seems like a young coach that might have just been pushed to the big stage, too soon. This isn't a knock on him, but the truth. When you only have 1 winning season out of five in your career, I don't think you should be the head coach at a school as prestigious as Tennessee.

I see your point, but you try recruiting LA TECH in the Runston, LA in the middle of SEC country and see how much success you have. Guys can show tons of promise and be given a shot, as it is with CDD. Everything has to be taken into perspective. That's where VolBeefoon fails in his logic. He looks at only records and determines a conclusion.

 

[JayVols]

I feel, personally, when things got really for both coaches, we saw how the teams responded. We both had bad losses (42 by Arkansas, to Austin Peay) and we saw what happened. The basketball team bought into the coach, overcome some suckage, and became better. The football team laid down. I'll get shot for this, but I don't think Dooley is a good leader. Other than LSU in 2010, how many times was the team truly inspired? Not very much.

No bullets from me. Solid post.

 

[LaagerVol]

Look I'll type slower for you. Both are head coaches. Both are on there 2nd job. Both came into a job with turmoil. They both have records. One has a winning record at both schools and one has a losing record at both schools.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Yes because it is not more complex than that. Look at overall records and that tells the WHOLE story.

 

[ob79]

I feel, personally, when things got really for both coaches, we saw how the teams responded. We both had bad losses (42 by Arkansas, to Austin Peay) and we saw what happened. The basketball team bought into the coach, overcome some suckage, and became better. The football team laid down. I'll get shot for this, but I don't think Dooley is a good leader. Other than LSU in 2010, how many times was the team truly inspired? Not very much.

Why would you get shot for saying Dooley may not be a good leader...I'd say it's a fair assessment.

Neither he nor his teams have done anything that would lead you to believe otherwise. However, you cannot discount the situation he took over...he didn't inherit a team that was going to win a lot of games and that's why he gets somewhat of a pass.

But not for the UK game. No one should get a pass for that, I don't care who you are.

 

[golfballs]

Ahem. A mod has used that acronym very recently. Why is it that mine gets deleted?

 

[LaagerVol]

Pretty much sums it up.

You support DD = Sunshine Pumper.

You're taking the "wait to see what he does this season before you give final judgement" approach = Sunshine Pumper

You don't agree with VolBeef or (now, applarently) BMB...Sunshine Pumper.

This times 1,000,000,000,000

I'm in the "wait and see" club myself. People that are too far on one side or the other (either supporters or detractors) usually wind up looking foolish in the end *cough* volbeef *cough*

 

[zjcvols]

Why would you get shot for saying Dooley may not be a good leader...I'd say it's a fair assessment.

Neither he nor his teams have done anything that would lead you to believe otherwise. However, you cannot discount the situation he took over...he didn't inherit a team that was going to win a lot of games and that's why he gets somewhat of a pass.

But not for the UK game. No one should get a pass for that, I don't care who you are.

He took over a ****ty program, no doubt about it. But here's the thing. Let's take out the roster (which he has done a pretty decent job rebuilding, although a little disappointed with this year's class, but besides the point).

Is the program any more stable than when he took over? I don't know. We lost 66% of the coaching staff. Nationally, our program looks bad. Worst loss in my lifetime. Total chaos and turmoil. Is the program that much more stable? I'm not so sure.

 

[columbia vol]

Dooley:Hey Volqueef,get on this.

 

[supersmo18]

I feel, personally, when things got really bad for both coaches, we saw how the teams responded. We both had bad losses (42 by Arkansas, to Austin Peay) and we saw what happened. The basketball team bought into the coach, overcome some suckage, and became better. The football team laid down. I'll get shot for this, but I don't think Dooley is a good leader. Other than LSU in 2010, how many times was the team truly inspired? Not very much.

I disagree but see where you're going; but, I think it's not that he's not a good leader, but hasn't been afforded the opportunity to show what he can really do yet, if he is capable of success that we all want.

Dooley also has had to let some stars go from the team that has hurt, previously youth and inexperience have hurt us as well. Martin, on the other hand, had Stokes walk in to the program in the middle of the season and has provided an instant impact.

Additionally, CDD is trying to manage 8 othe coaches and 65-70 guys, whereas Martin as 12 and 3 other coaches (I think). Either way, there's just too many factors to really classify one as a good leader and one not. I think they've both been dealt very similar but very different hands at this point, but CDD has to let his hand play out longer before he can be judged in the way that many are wanting to judge him.

VolBeefoon and Assmanbruno just like to stir the pot, hence the long, baseless thread.

 

[Jax_Vol]

Then just STFU and let it play out. What's so hard about that? You're doing nothing but hurting the program with your never ending BS...... "goob"

goob? lol....haven't heard that one is quite some time. Well played!

 

[zjcvols]

I disagree but see where you're going; but, I think it's not that he's not a good leader, but hasn't been afforded the opportunity to show what he can really do yet, if he is capable of success that we all want.

Dooley also has had to let some stars go from the team that has hurt, previously youth and inexperience have hurt us as well. Martin, on the other hand, had Stokes walk in to the program in the middle of the season and has provided an instant impact.

Additionally, CDD is trying to manage 8 othe coaches and 65-70 guys, whereas Martin as 12 and 3 other coaches (I think). Either way, there's just too many factors to really classify one as a good leader and one not. I think they've both been dealt very similar but very different hands at this point, but CDD has to let his hand play out longer before he can be judged in the way that many are wanting to judge him.

VolBeefoon and Assmanbruno just like to stir the pot, hence the long, baseless thread.

I'm not denying the differences of the sport. It's not a great comparison, that's correct. But I do feel like if Dooley had good leadership qualities, we'd see them. A good leader doesn't let Da'Rick do whatever he wants. A good leader doesn't have his team completely lay down at Fayetteville in embarrassing fashion that I couldn't stand to watch it. A good leader doesn't let his seniors have such a negative influence. A good leader doesn't let Kentucky happen, then try to justify it by saying "Well, we probably needed this."

JMO.

 

[King Webbsticles]

I disagree but see where you're going; but, I think it's not that he's not a good leader, but hasn't been afforded the opportunity to show what he can really do yet, if he is capable of success that we all want.

Dooley has had plenty of opportunities to show how good of a leader he is. You don't have to have a great team or go undefeated to be a good leader. In fact, it could be argued that signs of great leadership present themselves more when times are hard.

 

[zjcvols]

Dooley has had plenty of opportunities to show how good of a leader he is. You don't have to have a great team or go undefeated to be a good leader. In fact, it could be argued that signs of great leadership present themselves more when times are hard.

Exactly.

When times got rough after the Hunter injury, the team quit for the first half and couldn't recover. That's on the coaching staff. Just another example.

 

[JayVols]

Dooley has had plenty of opportunities to show how good of a leader he is. You don't have to have a great team or go undefeated to be a good leader. In fact, it could be argued that signs of great leadership present themselves more when times are hard.

Another solid post. You are correct King. Adversity tends to bring out the best or worst in all of us.

 

[Volst53]

I see your point, but you try recruiting LA TECH in the Runston, LA in the middle of SEC country and see how much success you have. Guys can show tons of promise and be given a shot, as it is with CDD. Everything has to be taken into perspective. That's where VolBeefoon fails in his logic. He looks at only records and determines a conclusion.

Trust me I get this to a point that few very well will on this website.

I'm just starting my coaching career at a school that doesn't have much to hang its hat on in football. If I fail, it's because I didn't succeed as a coach. I have a lot of built in excuses with this situlation, but I won't use a one of them. Excuses are for losers, you either do your job or you don't at the end of the day.

If you can't tell, I don't run a participation trophy program.

 

[Sandman 423]

I feel, personally, when things got really bad for both coaches, we saw how the teams responded. We both had bad losses (42 by Arkansas, to Austin Peay) and we saw what happened. The basketball team bought into the coach, overcome some suckage, and became better. The football team laid down. I'll get shot for this, but I don't think Dooley is a good leader. Other than LSU in 2010, how many times was the team truly inspired? Not very much.

They looked pretty inspired against Cinci, the first half of Florida and Bama.

also it is alittle easier to get 5-7 guys to play together than it is to get the sixty or so that play in football.

I dont know if DD is the guy but i do know that there is no way you can compare what DD and CM have done at Tennessee.

 

[ob79]

He took over a ****ty program, no doubt about it. But here's the thing. Let's take out the roster (which he has done a pretty decent job rebuilding, although a little disappointed with this year's class, but besides the point).

Is the program any more stable than when he took over? I don't know. We lost 66% of the coaching staff. Nationally, our program looks bad. Worst loss in my lifetime. Total chaos and turmoil. Is the program that much more stable? I'm not so sure.

Yes it is, albeit only slightly. The coaching turnover this off season leaves us with almost an entirely new staff, not good, but the roster and depth chart have SEC caliber players at every position for the first time since the Fulmer era. Granted, we're still not very deep and our two deep is chalk-full of freshman, but they're talented freshman...we were starting walk-ons on the OL three years ago.

 

[Bassmanbruno]

not really true. The int ended the game and was correctly called. Even if the player was down we just needed a fg to win on our next possession. UT outplayed Vandy all game but mistakes kept them in it

What game were you watching? Vandy handed us that game. They were extremely unlucky between the penalty on the FG attempt and the dirty clip a mile away from a play that would have led to a TD.

At least 14 points of stupidity on those 2 plays.

 

[ob79]

Dooley has had plenty of opportunities to show how good of a leader he is. You don't have to have a great team or go undefeated to be a good leader. In fact, it could be argued that signs of great leadership present themselves more when times are hard.

This. If ever there is a time for a leader to step up, it's in the face of adversity.

Can we all agree that he's seen his fair share of that??

 

[Sandman 423]

I'm not denying the differences of the sport. It's not a great comparison, that's correct. But I do feel like if Dooley had good leadership qualities, we'd see them. A good leader doesn't let Da'Rick do whatever he wants. A good leader doesn't have his team completely lay down at Fayetteville in embarrassing fashion that I couldn't stand to watch it. A good leader doesn't let his seniors have such a negative influence. A good leader doesn't let Kentucky happen, then try to justify it by saying "Well, we probably needed this."

JMO.

How do you explain Austin Peay?That is very comparable to the Kentucky game.

 

[sanddune50]

A box of hammers>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>OP

 

[Sandman 423]

It is sad that a Troll like Vb88 has vol fans arguing over wich coach sucks less. We are getting better and will be back soon enough. Go VOLS

 

[otis72]

Dooley is the product of another failed mike hamilton hire.Ohio state didnt go hire middle tennessee state football coach they went out and got proven winner.we got what we payed for, milwaukee's best,and we should have payed for michelob light.:toast:

 

[tvols75]

What game were you watching? Vandy handed us that game. They were extremely unlucky between the penalty on the FG attempt and the dirty clip a mile away from a play that would have led to a TD.

At least 14 points of stupidity on those 2 plays.

Ummm like when we were about to score and Bray threw an INT that went about 100 yds for a 10-14 pt. turn around. Or when the DB dropped an INT from Rogers inside their own 30 that would've went for a score. Don't fool yourself. This thread is like so many others, and the answer is the same as it has always been. Dooley has this year to prove what he is as a coach, and unless there is somehow a repeat of the injuries and then some we will have an answer on Dooley as a coach. There was no excuse for Kentucky just like there was no excuse for Louisiana Monroe for Saban. At the end of the day, when you go into the SEC with a water pistol when most of the teams you are facing have AK-47s then it's going to be ugly. This is the first year where we are actually bring a real gun.

 

[ob79]

Dooley is the product of another failed mike hamilton hire.Ohio state didnt go hire middle tennessee state football coach they went out and got proven winner.we got what we payed for, milwaukee's best,and we should have payed for michelob light.:toast:

They were all out of Michelob, Budweiser said no thanks, Miller too, and Blue Moon said it was too good for us.