Tampa Muslim bombing plot thwarted

#26
#26
These terrorists muslims want to kill everyone who is not a muslim, not just Christians.
Rejoice? Not sure but many are either ok with or refuse to condemn.
So CAIR is completely innocent of any ties to terrorists?
 
#28
#28
lawgator1 said:
I honestly think the mocking references to the "religion of peace" and the constant effort by some to portray the entirety of the Muslim population as buying into the most extreme beliefs and politics is pretty obviously trying to brand the whole religion.
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I have never said the whole "religion" but many of it's members are willing to, accept the acts or refuse to condemn these acts of terror.
 
#29
#29
volfanjustin said:
These terrorists muslims want to kill everyone who is not a muslim, not just Christians.
Rejoice? Not sure but many are either ok with or refuse to condemn.
So CAIR is completely innocent of any ties to terrorists?
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The point is, you can find within any given religion (and most political groups) a number of extremists who are willing to kill. I am sure that within CAIR there are terrorist sympathizers, just as I am sure that within the Baptist church system there are people willing to kill over their belief system, too.

Is there an organized group within Islam that is more dangerous, numbers and willlingness-wise at the moment?

Sure, but is that CAUSED by the religion or someone's political agenda to take advantage of the religion as a justification to others.

I thought this event showed that you cannot, and should not, assume that Muslims are more prone to violence or terrorism simply because they are Muslim. Its much more complicated than that.
 
#30
#30
volfanjustin said:
I have never said the whole "religion" but many of it's members are willing to, accept the acts or refuse to condemn these acts of terror.
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How many is many? I wouldn't say "many" American Muslims fit that description.
 
#33
#33
lawgator1 said:
The point is, you can find within any given religion (and most political groups) a number of extremists who are willing to kill. I am sure that within CAIR there are terrorist sympathizers, just as I am sure that within the Baptist church system there are people willing to kill over their belief system, too.

Is there an organized group within Islam that is more dangerous, numbers and willlingness-wise at the moment?

Sure, but is that CAUSED by the religion or someone's political agenda to take advantage of the religion as a justification to others.

I thought this event showed that you cannot, and should not, assume that Muslims are more prone to violence or terrorism simply because they are Muslim. Its much more complicated than that.
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Let me know when there are people in the Baptist church start killing others because they don't believe the same way and then we will discuss that.
 
#34
#34
volfanjustin said:
Where did I say American Muslims? I mean worldwide.
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You were talking about CAIR.

Worldwide, when Muslims in the ME "accept" terrorist attacks against the US it has more to do with our foreign policy than their religion. I do admit that the American Muslims that "accept" the attacks probably do it mostly because of religious fanaticism, but they are the very small minority, IMO.
 
#38
#38
Let's take Southern Baptists in East, TN. I've grown up here most of my life and I've realized that I cannot stand the majority of Southern Baptists around here.

Do I think all Christians are like East, TN Southern Baptists? No. Do I even think most of them are like East, TN Southern Baptists? No. Am I aware enough to distinguish East, TN Southern Baptists from the majority of Christians? Just so happens I am.

Fear does funny things to ignorant people.
 
#39
#39
volfanjustin said:
Let me know when there are people in the Baptist church start killing others because they don't believe the same way and then we will discuss that.
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People die for stupid reasons every day. Extremism is one of those.

Tell me, what's your "final solution" for this problem? :)
 
#42
#42
volfanjustin said:
Let me know when there are people in the Baptist church start killing others because they don't believe the same way and then we will discuss that.
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- Michael Frederick Griffin, John Burt, and Rescue America

- Paul Jennings Hill (technically Presbyterian, not Baptist)

- John Salvi and Rev. Donald Spitz

- Eric Rudolph
 
#43
#43
therealUT said:
- Michael Frederick Griffin, John Burt, and Rescue America

- Paul Jennings Hill (technically Presbyterian, not Baptist)

- John Salvi and Rev. Donald Spitz

- Eric Rudolph
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Stop it trut. His religion is special. You just don't understand.
 
#45
#45
PKT_VOL said:
Stop it trut. His religion is special. You just don't understand.
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I guess I could have added George W. Bush, since technically GWB had persons killed because they did not believe in Democracy like he does. VFJustin did not specify and/or limit what beliefs these Baptists killed for, he simply said to let him know when Baptists start killing others because they do not hold the same beliefs.
 
#47
#47
therealUT said:
I guess I could have added George W. Bush, since technically GWB had persons killed because they did not believe in Democracy like he does. VFJustin did not specify and/or limit what beliefs these Baptists killed for, he simply said to let him know when Baptists start killing others because they do not hold the same beliefs.
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Eh, GWB is a stretch in the contexts of this discussion. His actions were not in the name of a religion, God, or religious beliefs. They were seemingly geopolitical and possibly personal.
 
#48
#48
PKT_VOL said:
Eh, GWB is a stretch in the contexts of this discussion. His actions were not in the name of a religion, God, or religious beliefs. They were seemingly geopolitical and possibly personal.
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I would agree with that, though I do think religious differences played a part.
 
#49
#49
PKT_VOL said:
Eh, GWB is a stretch in the contexts of this discussion. His actions were not in the name of a religion, God, or religious beliefs. They were seemingly geopolitical and possibly personal.
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GWB used a lot of religious overtones in the buildup to and the conduct of the Iraq War.

God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq.

-GWB, 6 October 2005
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This is a pretty insightful article on Bush and, implicitly, on the divisions within the GOP:

Bruce Bartlett, a domestic policy adviser to Ronald Reagan and a treasury official for the first President Bush, told me recently that ''if Bush wins, there will be a civil war in the Republican Party starting on Nov. 3.'' The nature of that conflict, as Bartlett sees it? Essentially, the same as the one raging across much of the world: a battle between modernists and fundamentalists, pragmatists and true believers, reason and religion.

''Just in the past few months,'' Bartlett said, ''I think a light has gone off for people who've spent time up close to Bush: that this instinct he's always talking about is this sort of weird, Messianic idea of what he thinks God has told him to do.'' Bartlett, a 53-year-old columnist and self-described libertarian Republican who has lately been a champion for traditional Republicans concerned about Bush's governance, went on to say: ''This is why George W. Bush is so clear-eyed about Al Qaeda and the Islamic fundamentalist enemy. He believes you have to kill them all. They can't be persuaded, that they're extremists, driven by a dark vision. He understands them, because he's just like them. . . .

The New York Times > Magazine > In the Magazine: Faith, Certainty and the Presidency of George W. Bush
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#50
#50
At various points in history, one religion or another, one political system or another, one ideology or another, gets co-opted by extremists and turns to violence as a means to an end. And when I say "points in history" i am generally talking about time measured in decades and sometimes even centuries.

We happen to live in a time when the abuse of Christianity such that it leads to violence is very low, whereas abuse of Islam leading to violence is high. It is that much easier for radical Islamists to promote violence in the current environment because the economics of their countries is often poor and stratified and education and freedom is low.

But times change. And have changed. If we were having this discussion 500 years ago we might be referring to radical Christians.

Perspective.
 
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