Abortion debate (split from bball forum)

#101
#101
Tenacious D said:
There's a war in Afghanistan.
I'm doing nothing to stop it.
Am I a warmonger?
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If you have the power to stop it I would say you are at least partly culpable. Since you don't, it doesn't matter.

These little questions, while cute, prove nothing to the point you are trying to make. Sorry bro.
 
#103
#103
timmy said:
I'd rather someone get an abortion, than have a baby they can't afford and get a check from the government to raise the baby.

Telling people they can't get an abortion because you believe it is wrong in God's eye violates the Constitution. Not everyone believes, or wants to be part of your religion and you need to accept that.
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Agreed. Its all about ROI.
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#104
#104
Tenacious D said:
His God?

I'd like to hear more of what you know "his" god to be, if you could elaborate.
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he said God doesn't murder yet the death of an unborn child is murder. Not sure what assumptions I'm making
 
#105
#105
Abortion is a touchy subject. I don't like the idea of killing babies. But i don't want the government legislating morality on people when lots of the are themselves immoral. I can't imagine telling a rape or incest victim to carry and deliver a constant reminder of their ordeal. And i feel terrible for parents who have to make the choice of bringing in a child that will have some abnormality or the pregnancy itself could threaten the mothers life. Abortions just because we didn't use a condom or use birth control is just wrong. Why should the baby lose its life because the parents weren't responsible.
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#106
#106
VolsNSkinsFan said:
Nope
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I'll address it directly to you then.

A 12-14 year old girl is raped by her father. She gets impregnated by the tragedy. Being undeveloped and small, a birth could endanger her life and the baby's. Also she would have to drop school for a few months and be held back if she has this child and lives. It's cannot be determined that she will have a high quality supporting "family" around her to help her over come this. Are you telling me you would be ok telling her she has no choice and has to have the baby?
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#107
#107
rjd970 said:
If you have the power to stop it I would say you are at least partly culpable. Since you don't, it doesn't matter.

These little questions, while cute, prove nothing to the point you are trying to make. Sorry bro.
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I'm not attempting to make a point, but to understand the various arguments.

But am I a warmonger for not applying whatever minuscule amount of influence that I might possess to stop the war - even if such would ultimately prove impossible for me to do, alone?
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#108
#108
ToineMac said:
Abortion is a touchy subject. I don't like the idea of killing babies. But i don't want the government legislating morality on people when lots of the are themselves immoral. I can't imagine telling a rape or incest victim to carry and deliver a constant reminder of their ordeal. And i feel terrible for parents who have to make the choice of bringing in a child that will have some abnormality or the pregnancy itself could threaten the mothers life. Abortions just because we didn't use a condom or use birth control is just wrong. Why should the baby lose its life because the parents weren't responsible.
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+1
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#112
#112
Tenacious D said:
I'm not attempting to make a point, but to understand the various arguments.

But am I a warmonger for not applying whatever minuscule amount of influence that I might possess to stop the war - even if such would ultimately prove impossible for me to do, alone?Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Of course you aren't, this is a silly question. If you are the supreme creator of the universe living outside of space and time, capable of doing absolutely anything...then a different set of rules apply when it comes to your questions. If you have the power to cure children's cancer in the world and don't, you are partly responsible. The fact that a ,mere mortal has never donated to St. Judes Hospital doesn't mean they are in favor of cancer in kids though.
 
#114
#114
VolsNSkinsFan said:
If the 12-14 y/os life is in danger, than an abortion is permitted
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Its a 12-14 year old girl. It has a pretty high chance of that. But if you make abortion illegal then she can't do that. No one is ok with killing babies. But making it illegal is not a good idea. And I didn't even mention the social reprecusions of black-market/ back alley "businesses" that aren't clean or regulated with zero accountability.
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#115
#115
utvols88 said:
Its a 12-14 year old girl. It has a pretty high chance of that. But if you make abortion illegal then she can't do that. No one is ok with killing babies. But making it illegal is not a good idea. And I didn't even mention the social reprecusions of black-market/ back alley "businesses" that aren't clean or regulated with zero accountability.
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Something else to consider for sure.
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#116
#116
Shot0fClarity said:
JZ - you're lost bro.

We're saying:
A- if you believe these are more than metaphors than you're wrong. Proceed to step 1A.
B- if you believe these are nothing more than metaphors for lessons in life, stop here.

1A- Since you believe this is to be taken literal, why does (a) god allow these horrible things to happen, or even cause them himself. Seems like hypocrisy.
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If I believe in the God of the Bible- How could I possibly fully understand His motives? Humans have yet to cure the common cold and you are asking me to explain why God does something?
 
#118
#118
I'm not going to lie, I struggle with this debate. On one end, I find late term abortion repulsive. On the other, I see nothing wrong with embryonic stem cell research. I think the extreme sides of this issue are wrong.

IMO, the answer is somewhere in between conception and late term. I just don't know where that line should be drawn.
 
#123
#123
JZVOL said:
If I believe in the God of the Bible- How could I possibly fully understand His motives? Humans have yet to cure the common cold and you are asking me to explain why God does something?
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How do you know He is against abortion then?
 
#124
#124
What's funny is my post from last night had nothing to do with abortion being right or wrong. It was simply about Pitino being financially responsible for the decision of the female.
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#125
#125
therealUT said:
If god is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent, then is death a bad thing?

If death is not a bad thing, then why is abortion inherently wrong?

To approach this issue from the religious angle, is to approach it with the baggage of a lot of unanswerable metaphysical and theological questions.



This, by the way, is the argument that prompted Augustine to declare that "evil" is non-existent.
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I'm not approaching it from any "religious" angle.

To me, it boils down to this:
1. A woman has a right to do with her body as she pleases.
2. A fetus has a right to life.
Insofar as I can see, no one is evil or going to Hades at this point.

Where two equally sound rights conflict, I weigh the following:
1. Which of the two had the least self-determination from which the conflict arose?

2. Which would suffer the greatest harm, should the opposing right be favored, and theirs be infringed?

3. To what extent / degree / severity would the harm continue, and to what extent could it mitigated, if any?

Personally, I think that short of the mother's life being equally and certainly imperiled as the unborn child's - that the right to life always and justly supersedes the right to choose.

Fortunately, as I am not woman, I'll never be faced with this decision - and understand that the drafting of a bulleted list of philosophical preferences is no suitable substitute for all that would actually be required in making that decision and then living with it.

And, admittedly, I don't know what I'd think / value / believe when actually faced with that decision.
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