15 Mind-Blowing Facts About Wealth And Inequality In America

#1
Dr Dread

Dr Dread

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#1
Wealth And Inequality In America

To those on the right who will see this as "Class Warfare", I say the wealthy have been at war against the middle-class for decades.

The following article shows this.

America's newest export: white-collar jobs; The debate over offshoring white-collar jobs is red hot. Dissecting the rhetoric and grounding the predictions will help HR plan for future workforce needs. | Asia > South Asia from AllBusiness.com

I also contend that the vast majority df true TPer will be worse off if the mid-terms go their way.
 
#2
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As a solution, I think we should take money from the wealthy, well, just the high earners, who are by no means the wealthy, and just give it to those they screwed to be wealthy. This has proven to be an enormous wealth generator as well as catalyst for investment and economic growth. The second article was just senseless.
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#3
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BigPapaVol said:
As a solution, I think we should take money from the wealthy, well, just the high earners, who are by no means the wealthy, and just give it to those they screwed to be wealthy. This has proven to be an enormous wealth generator as well as catalyst for investment and economic growth.
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How about we instead, we push policies that promote keeping jobs in America.
 
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Dr Dread said:
How about we instead, we push policies that promote keeping jobs in America.
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Because, as you pointed out with that awful article, other nations are better educated but their labor is half as pricey. Why pay lazy griping Americans when you don't need to?
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BigPapaVol said:
Because, as you pointed out with that awful article, other nations are better educated but their labor is half as pricey. Why pay lazy griping Americans when you don't need to?
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The vast majority of the jobs are going to India and China; both of which have much lower work condition standards and have a worse education system than the US.
 
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Dr Dread said:
The vast majority of the jobs are going to India and China; both of which have much lower work condition standards and have a worse education system than the US.
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The white collar gigs you lamented by pulling up that article are not going to the lesser educated. The work conditions are just fine for those folks. I know it doesn't fit with the class warfare mindset, but thise jobs are being done very competently by very competent people. Outsourced factory labor: who cares? It's a commodity. People don't want to be commoditized. They can train or work for market pricing.

See, what's lost in all this us vs them income gap griping is the fact that people are simply asking to be paid more than they're worth. Lefties decry the lack of income growth in America, but that doesn't take into account more competitive markets that have surpassed our skill sets and education levels. Overpricing ones skills is stupid. Stagnated skills should never, ever, ever, ever increase in terms of real wages. Don't let the whiny left, decrying the plight of the American worker, ever try to sell the crap about wage growth. Productivity increases are the lever they'll use to talk about our greater capability, but that's about capital investment, not skilled workers. The market will flat pay what it's worth. Americans hating that the market is more competitive is the issue here. Train up, work more or take home less.
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#7
I can't find the information I'm looking for, but US industrial output is actually quite high. Automation and other advances in efficiency have reduced the need for human presence on production lines. Like BPV says, there's simply no need to pay an American worker minimum wage or union scale to make plastic dog poop when it is cheaper to have the labor performed in Third World countries.
 
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BigPapaVol said:
The white collar gigs you lamented by pulling up that article are not going to the lesser educated. The work conditions are just fine for those folks. I know it doesn't fit with the class warfare mindset, but thise jobs are being done very competently by very competent people. Outsourced factory labor: who cares? It's a commodity. People don't want to be commoditized. They can train or work for market pricing.

See, what's lost in all this us vs them income gap griping is the fact that people are simply asking to be paid more than they're worth. Lefties decry the lack of income growth in America, but that doesn't take into account more competitive markets that have surpassed our skill sets and education levels. Overpricing ones skills is stupid. Stagnated skills should never, ever, ever, ever increase in terms of real wages. Don't let the whiny left, decrying the plight of the American worker, ever try to sell the crap about wage growth. Productivity increases are the lever they'll use to talk about our greater capability, but that's about capital investment, not skilled workers. The market will flat pay what it's worth. Americans hating that the market is more competitive is the issue here. Train up, work more or take home less.
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If you base labor of any sort on the world market, the American worker gets screwed. When comparing our system of government, our system of economics, the size of popuation; there is no way to compete with China or India. What you're stating is excellent in terms of what's good for business, but terrible in terms of what's good for the country on the long-term. Our economy is not structured in a way that allows for gaps this hugh over the long term. There is no demand without decent wages. It is also a recipe for unrest.

What you call a commodity, some call The American Dream. It shouldn't be for sale on the world market.
 
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Dr Dread said:
If you base labor of any sort on the world market, the American worker gets screwed. When comparing our system of government, our system of economics, the size of popuation; there is no way to compete with China or India. What you're stating is excellent in terms of what's good for business, but terrible in terms of what's good for the country on the long-term. Our economy is not structured in a way that allows for gaps this hugh over the long term. There is no demand without decent wages. It is also a recipe for unrest.

What you call a commodity, some call The American Dream. It shouldn't be for sale on the world market.
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Spare me the poor screwed American worker. We've spent decades overpaying for shoddy American labor and it broke some of our largest industries.

As a company manager, my fumctikn is to provide products or services at acceptable quality levels at the lowest prices I can. Doling out for entitlement mentality fat, lazy, whiny Americans doesn't any longer fit that business plan well, if I have options.

Why on earth should everyone pay more because Americans aren't global competitive ? It sounds cute to say we're saving jobs, but you're really just advocating rampant inflation and shoddy products. Inflation crushes retirees and shoddy products, like we became known for in the 70s, just suck and will kill more businesses than offshoring.
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BigPapaVol said:
Spare me the poor screwed American worker. We've spent decades overpaying for shoddy American labor and it broke some of our largest industries.

As a company manager, my fumctikn is to provide products or services at acceptable quality levels at the lowest prices I can. Doling out for entitlement mentality fat, lazy, whiny Americans doesn't any longer fit that business plan well, if I have options.

Why on earth should everyone pay more because Americans aren't global competitive ? It sounds cute to say we're saving jobs, but you're really just advocating rampant inflation and shoddy products. Inflation crushes retirees and shoddy products, like we became known for in the 70s, just suck and will kill more businesses than offshoring.
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I have one question. Who is going to be able to buy your product in America when many Americans are losing their purchasing power? Uneven distribution of income was one of the 5 main causes of The Great Depression. It is foolish to think that companies can outsource their labor at the rate they are and still be able to sell their products at the same or higher rate they once did. The outsourcing has hit workers who fuel the economy by purchasing. How do you expect this to not eventually effect the sales of the company itself eventually? That position makes zero sense.
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#13
Often times, it's the decisions made from the top in order to increase profits that lead to less reliable products being produced. It's just easier to blame the workers. The auto industry is a perfect example.
 
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JayVols said:
I have one question. Who is going to be able to buy your product in America when many Americans are losing their purchasing power? Uneven distribution of income was one of the 5 main causes of The Great Depression. It is foolish to think that companies can outsource their labor at the rate they are and still be able to sell their products at the same or higher rate they once did. The outsourcing has hit workers who fuel the economy by purchasing. How do you expect this to not eventually effect the sales of the company itself eventually? That position makes zero sense.
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This.
 
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Dr Dread said:
Often times, it's the decisions made from the top in order to increase profits that lead to less reliable products being produced. It's just easier to blame the workers. The auto industry is a perfect example.
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Ridiculous. Those companies are broke because strings of executives bowed to the unions and mortgaged the futures of the companies for near term concessions and work restarts. It's absurd to pretend that the issues of pensions, labor costs run amok and shoddy workmanship disnt doom US auto manufacturing.
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#17
#17
JayVols said:
I have one question. Who is going to be able to buy your product in America when many Americans are losing their purchasing power? Uneven distribution of income was one of the 5 main causes of The Great Depression. It is foolish to think that companies can outsource their labor at the rate they are and still be able to sell their products at the same or higher rate they once did. The outsourcing has hit workers who fuel the economy by purchasing. How do you expect this to not eventually effect the sales of the company itself eventually? That position makes zero sense.
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How did uneven distribution of purchasing power cause the Depression? That will be interesting to walk through.

I will sell my wares to those who can buy them. You're acting as if Americans can't buy goods, which is preposterous.

Your econ lesson went awry there when you tried to shove wider margin down my throat as reason for outsourcing. Companies are outsourcing for competitive reasons and pricing power has fallen through the floor for that reason. That means goods are cheaper or have remained cheap for years. As to my company, we have to continue to figure out how to present a value proposition to viable customers. Those who lose sight of that daily, go broke and start whining about outsourcing.

It's not the job of policymakere to provide American companies with limitless senseless demand. It's their job to set policies such that American ingenuity can continue to lead the world in advancement and be paid for it. IRS their job to make sure private business can be the engine that continues to fuel the greatest economy the world has ever seen, then get out of the way.
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BigPapaVol said:
How did uneven distribution of purchasing power cause the Depression? That will be interesting to walk through.

I will sell my wares to those who can buy them. You're acting as if Americans can't buy goods, which is preposterous.

Your econ lesson went awry there when you tried to shove wider margin down my throat as reason for outsourcing. Companies are outsourcing for competitive reasons and pricing power has fallen through the floor for that reason. That means goods are cheaper or have remained cheap for years. As to my company, we have to continue to figure out how to present a value proposition to viable customers. Those who lose sight of that daily, go broke and start whining about outsourcing.

It's not the job of policymakere to provide American companies with limitless senseless demand. It's their job to set policies such that American ingenuity can continue to lead the world in advancement and be paid for it. IRS their job to make sure private business can be the engine that continues to fuel the greatest economy the world has ever seen, then get out of the way.
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Causes of the Great Depression In the 1920's American economic policy was laissez faire. Businesses were left alone and for sometime things appeared to fine. American businesses reported record profits, production was at an all time high. The problem was that while earnings rose and the rich got richer, the working class received a disproportionally lower percentage of the wealth. This uneven distribution of wealth got so bad that 5% of America earned 33% of the income. What this meant was that there was less and less real spending. Despite the fact that the working class had less money to spend businesses continued to increase production levels.
Purchasing dropped internationally as well. Since Europe was in a depression people there weren't buying as much as businesses had estimated. Then the Fordney McCumber Tariff and the Hawley Smoot Tariff raised tariff levels to as much as 40%. Europe which was already angered at US foreign actions responded with high tariffs of their own. International trade was at a standstill.
At this point you should be asking the question "If no one buying and companies were increasing production levels, wasn't there going to be a problem?" BINGO!!! The problem is known as overproduction. American businesses were producing far more than could be consumed. The result was lost profits and eventually debts. After a while many companies went out of business. Why would these companies continue to overproduce? There are several reasons. Some were managed poorly. Others were part of holding companies that placed layers and layers of companies, each relying on the others production levels like a pyramid. If one company in the pyramid reported lower production levels the others fell off and it looked bad. In many cases however crooked company owners reported earnings that were higher than they were actually were in order to drive up the stock price.


I never made an argument for wider margin as a reason for outsourcing. You must have me confused with someone else. My argument was that loss of jobs due to outsourcing would eventually come back to haunt those companies practicing it in the form of lower sales due to loss of middle class purchasing power. If my facts are faulty as you imply, blame UT for that is where I received my Masters Degree in US History, but you are a manager, you know more about history than I do. It is documented historical fact that low wages resulting in little purchasing power helped bring about the depression. It let to overproduction because units were not being moved from warehouses causing huge overhead costs. Small business is an integral part in our economy. However, if the US citizen lacks the power to buy products, everyone suffers. It it illogical to think the Americans can continue to fuel the economy by purchasing if their jobs continue to be outsourced at current rates. Everyone including the companies themselves will suffer. One main ingredient that separates our economic system from communism or fascism (both failed concepts) is the existence of a viable middle class that provides the fuel and greases the gears to our economic engine. The engine (small businesses) that you refer to is as useless as teats on a boar hog if it doesn't have fuel (middle class) to run it.
 
#19
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Dr Dread said:
Often times, it's the decisions made from the top in order to increase profits that lead to less reliable products being produced. It's just easier to blame the workers. The auto industry is a perfect example.
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I agree that the top brass and their decisions are a large part of the problem with the American auto industry but pretending the unions aren't also a very significant factor is being a little naive.
 
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KB5252 said:
I agree that the top brass and their decisions are a large part of the problem with the American auto industry but pretending the unions aren't also a very significant factor is being a little naive.
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There are problems on both sides. Whether they like it or not, the American worker is in the same sinking ship as the American business. It is overdue for them to stop the adversarial relationship and start working together to find common, mutually beneficial solutions.
 
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JayVols said:
There are problems on both sides. Whether they like it or not, the American worker is in the same sinking ship as the American business. It is overdue for them to stop the adversarial relationship and start working together to find common, mutually beneficial solutions.
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the first step should be to get rid of all labor unions
 
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American businesses reported record profits, production was at an all time high. The problem was that while earnings rose and the rich got richer, the working class received a disproportionally lower percentage of the wealth. This uneven distribution of wealth got so bad that 5% of America earned 33% of the income. What this meant was that there was less and less real spending. Despite the fact that the working class had less money to spend businesses continued to increase production levels.
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Not sure who wrote that article, but the logic confuses me. If production was at an all time high, I would think people were working (and earning) more. It's irrelevant that the wealthy were earning more (percentage wise) than the poor. Given the environment described the poor should still be earning more than they were before (i.e. where were the poor making all their money before production increased?). If they had good jobs (and pay) already then why would they take the factory jobs?
So if the poor are actually earning more (even though less than the wealthy on a percentage basis), where does the author explain how the working class now has less money???
 
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IBlvNTmWrk said:
Not sure who wrote that article, but the logic confuses me. If production was at an all time high, I would think people were working (and earning) more. It's irrelevant that the wealthy were earning more (percentage wise) than the poor. Given the environment described the poor should still be earning more than they were before (i.e. where were the poor making all their money before production increased?). If they had good jobs (and pay) already then why would they take the factory jobs?
So if the poor are actually earning more (even though less than the wealthy on a percentage basis), where does the author explain how the working class now has less money???
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did I miss something? I thought Obama gave 95% of all Americans a tax cut, or something resembling a tax cut. Either way, Obama did something that was supposed to have increased the spending power of the "little people".

I must be daft, but I honestly thought that that extra $14 a month was supposed to be one of those things that stimulated the economy from the bottom up. A little bit (and damn little at that) of that whole "spread the wealth around" BS he was touting.
 
#25
#25
JayVols said:
There are problems on both sides. Whether they like it or not, the American worker is in the same sinking ship as the American business. It is overdue for them to stop the adversarial relationship and start working together to find common, mutually beneficial solutions.
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The unions will never relinquish their stranglehold, they are a political force now with major influence in government. In order to keep that influence they need their bread winners to keep funneling them money.
 
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