Religious debate (split from main board)

#1,751
#1,751
BeecherVol said:
Typically at our church, you don't get baptized the same day. They normally set it up the next week where the family and friends of those saved can be in attendance if they are not there that day. And in some cases they will have non believing friends and family come to see it. If I remember correctly, this particular lady wanted her mother in attendance, and she was not there the Sunday that she was saved.
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Do you believe this is consistent with the Bible's teachings? I haven't read where anyone ever waited to be baptized. Some were baptized in the middle of the night, at inconvenient times, in the Bible.
 
#1,752
#1,752
T-TownVol said:
That is just it, he is teaching EXACTLY what the Bible tells us. They changed the name to get away from the teachings of the c of C. You did not google back far enough. He was disowned by your denomination because he did not teach legalism. just like professors at Lipscomb have been fired for toeing the "company line" and DARING to play pre-recorded music before worship. OH the horror!!!!
Please.....do not go there.

Oh....by the way...many of the churches of Christ in Nashville are dropping the c of C label too. Tells ya something about the theology huh?
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Further proof that many in this world do not want to obey the commands of God. It's a shame, really.

If Max Lucado teaches baptism as an outward sign of an inward faith, he's doing so with zero Biblical backing.
 
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#1,754
#1,754
IBlvNTmWrk said:
If baptism washes away our sins, then why do they come back? Or, are you saying that you can remain sinless after you have been baptized? If you can't and you sin again, wouldn't you then have to be baptized again to "wash them away"?

I'm not trying to be antagonistic, and have a lot of respect for the devotion you and Lightning possess, but I honestly fail to grasp how this plays out...
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Baptism does wash away our sins:
Acts 2 38 Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 22 16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’

Once a person has been baptized for the forgiveness of sins, when we do sin, the blood of Christ continues to wash away that sin so long as we...

...repent...

When the Christian, Simon the sorceror, committed a sin in Acts 8 Peter told him:

Acts 8 20 But Peter said to him, “Your money perish with you, because you thought that the gift of God could be purchased with money! 21 You have neither part nor portion in this matter, for your heart is not right in the sight of God. 22 Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.

...and confess those sins.

1 John 1 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
 
#1,757
#1,757
ridethelightening said:
Salute, why do you think Christ was baptized?
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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To fulfill all righteousness:

Matthew 3 13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. 14 And John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and are You coming to me?”
15 But Jesus answered and said to him, “Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed Him.
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, “This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.”
 
#1,761
#1,761
This thread is getting ridiculous. If the God of the Bible and New Testament exists, there is no way any of this really matters.
 
#1,762
#1,762
salutethehill said:
Do you believe this is consistent with the Bible's teachings? I haven't read where anyone ever waited to be baptized. Some were baptized in the middle of the night, at inconvenient times, in the Bible.
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salutethehill said:
Is this consistent with the Word?
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Is it inconsistent with what the Bible teaches?

Are you now stating that if you get baptized after you ask for repentance you are not saved?
 
#1,764
#1,764
BeecherVol said:
Is it inconsistent with what the Bible teaches?

Are you now stating that if you get baptized after you ask for repentance you are not saved?
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Repent and be baptized. However, its only the beginning. You will continue to grow in your faith and obedience
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#1,765
#1,765
Baptism is nothing more than a symbolic gesture, those that argue back and forth about things like this are missing the point IMO.
 
#1,767
#1,767
BeecherVol said:
Is it inconsistent with what the Bible teaches?

Are you now stating that if you get baptized after you ask for repentance you are not saved?
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My question is, is your getting baptized 3 weeks after you confessed your faith of Christ consistent with what the Bible teaches?

Let's look:

The Ethipian Eunuch

Acts 8 34 So the eunuch answered Philip and said, “I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?” 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. 36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”[c]
38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. 39 Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing.

Was he baptized 3 weeks later? No. Also, take note of when he went on his way rejoicing. Why AFTER baptism? Why not when he proclaimed his faith?

The Philippian Jailer

Acts 16 25 But at midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them. 26 Suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken; and immediately all the doors were opened and everyone’s chains were loosed. 27 And the keeper of the prison, awaking from sleep and seeing the prison doors open, supposing the prisoners had fled, drew his sword and was about to kill himself. 28 But Paul called with a loud voice, saying, “Do yourself no harm, for we are all here.”
29 Then he called for a light, ran in, and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized. 34 Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.

Was he baptized 3 weeks later? No. With all that went on here, why the urgency? Why not wait until the morning? Why in the middle of the night (after midnight)? Take special note of when it says, "having believed in God." It was AFTER the baptism, and that's why he rejoiced AFTER the baptism.

Paul

6 “Now it happened, as I journeyed and came near Damascus at about noon, suddenly a great light from heaven shone around me. 7 And I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?’ 8 So I answered, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said to me, ‘I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting.’
9 &#8220;And those who were with me indeed saw the light and were afraid,[a] but they did not hear the voice of Him who spoke to me. 10 So I said, &#8216;What shall I do, Lord?&#8217;[/B] <----- RIGHT HERE, PAUL BELIEVES. Is he saved?

Continue on...
And the Lord said to me, &#8216;Arise and go into Damascus, and there you will be told all things which are appointed for you to do.&#8217; 11 And since I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of those who were with me, I came into Damascus.
12 &#8220;Then a certain Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good testimony with all the Jews who dwelt there, 13 came to me; and he stood and said to me, &#8216;Brother Saul, receive your sight.&#8217; And at that same hour I looked up at him. 14 Then he said, &#8216;The God of our fathers has chosen you that you should know His will, and see the Just One, and hear the voice of His mouth. 15 For you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.&#8217;

Did Paul wait 3 weeks? No. Why? Because baptism is urgent. He wasn't saved from his sins when he believed, and HE NEEDED TO BE SAVED NOW. Take note of when it says he was "calling on the name of the Lord." AFTER the baptism.

Speaking of calling on the name of the Lord, IPOrange, why is this important? Simple:
Matthew 7 21 &#8220;Not everyone who says to Me, &#8216;Lord, Lord,&#8217; shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, &#8216;Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?&#8217; 23 And then I will declare to them, &#8216;I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!&#8217;
 
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#1,768
#1,768
KB5252 said:
Baptism is nothing more than a symbolic gesture, those that argue back and forth about things like this are missing the point IMO.
Click to expand...

In your opinion, or Biblically? That's an important question. Nowhere does the Bible say that baptism is nothing more than a symbolic gesture.
 
#1,770
#1,770
salutethehill said:
In your opinion, or Biblically? That's an important question. Nowhere does the Bible say that baptism is nothing more than a symbolic gesture.
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where does it say that it is a requirement for salvation? It doesn't, at least not where it matters anyway.
 
#1,771
#1,771
KB5252 said:
where does it say that it is a requirement for salvation? It doesn't, at least not where it matters anyway.
Click to expand...

1 Peter 3 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Antitype = the like figure, or a true likeness

Just as the flood cleansed the earth of its wickedness in Genesis, Baptism does the same for us. Not as a literal bath to clean dirt from our bodies, but a submission, they can have a good conscience in what they are doing is right.
 
#1,772
#1,772
salutethehill said:
My question is, is your getting baptized 3 weeks after you confessed your faith of Christ consistent with what the Bible teaches?

Let's look:

The Ethipian Eunuch

Acts 8 34 So the eunuch answered Philip and said, “I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?” 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. 36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, “See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?”
37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.”
And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.”[c]
38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. 39 Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing.

Was he baptized 3 weeks later? No. Also, take note of when he went on his way rejoicing. Why AFTER baptism? Why not when he proclaimed his faith?

The Philippian Jailer

Acts 16 25 But at midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the prisoners were listening to them. 26 Suddenly there was a great earthquake, so that the foundations of the prison were shaken; and immediately all the doors were opened and everyone’s chains were loosed. 27 And the keeper of the prison, awaking from sleep and seeing the prison doors open, supposing the prisoners had fled, drew his sword and was about to kill himself. 28 But Paul called with a loud voice, saying, “Do yourself no harm, for we are all here.”
29 Then he called for a light, ran in, and fell down trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 And he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized. 34 Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.

Was he baptized 3 weeks later? No. With all that went on here, why the urgency? Why not wait until the morning? Why in the middle of the night (after midnight)? Take special note of when it says, "having believed in God." It was AFTER the baptism, and that's why he rejoiced AFTER the baptism.

Paul

6 “Now it happened, as I journeyed and came near Damascus at about noon, suddenly a great light from heaven shone around me. 7 And I fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to me, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?’ 8 So I answered, ‘Who are You, Lord?’ And He said to me, ‘I am Jesus of Nazareth, whom you are persecuting.’
9 “And those who were with me indeed saw the light and were afraid,[a] but they did not hear the voice of Him who spoke to me. 10 So I said, ‘What shall I do, Lord?’[/B] <----- RIGHT HERE, PAUL BELIEVES. Is he saved?

Continue on...
And the Lord said to me, ‘Arise and go into Damascus, and there you will be told all things which are appointed for you to do.’ 11 And since I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of those who were with me, I came into Damascus.
12 “Then a certain Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good testimony with all the Jews who dwelt there, 13 came to me; and he stood and said to me, ‘Brother Saul, receive your sight.’ And at that same hour I looked up at him. 14 Then he said, ‘The God of our fathers has chosen you that you should know His will, and see the Just One, and hear the voice of His mouth. 15 For you will be His witness to all men of what you have seen and heard. 16 And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.’

Did Paul wait 3 weeks? No. Why? Because baptism is urgent. He wasn't saved from his sins when he believed, and HE NEEDED TO BE SAVED NOW. Take note of when it says he was "calling on the name of the Lord." AFTER the baptism.

Speaking of calling on the name of the Lord, IPOrange, why is this important? Simple:
Matthew 7 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
Click to expand...

So how long does the Bible say I have to be baptized after I repent? 3 mins? 5 mins? Do I have to get saved by a creek, so I can be baptized as soon as the words come out of my mouth?
These sound like silly questions, but I have to ask.
 
#1,774
#1,774
salutethehill said:
1 Peter 3 18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

Antitype = the like figure, or a true likeness

Just as the flood cleansed the earth of its wickedness in Genesis, Baptism does the same for us. Not as a literal bath to clean dirt from our bodies, but a submission, they can have a good conscience in what they are doing is right.
Click to expand...

Maybe we are getting different meanings from that but the way I read it it is saying we are saved today by Jesus Christ, I see it as explaining his sacrifice as a baptism through his blood. Where exactly am I going wrong with my interpretation?
 
#1,775
#1,775
BeecherVol said:
So how long does the Bible say I have to be baptized after I repent? 3 mins? 5 mins? Do I have to get saved by a creek, so I can be baptized as soon as the words come out of my mouth?
These sound like silly questions, but I have to ask.
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These are far from silly questions. Once you believe, confess your belief that Jesus is the son of God and repent of your sins, you should be baptized...immediately. It truly is that important. If they were baptized immediately in the Bible, why shouldn't we do the same.
 
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