So much for global warming.

#27
#27
lawgator1 said:
You guys misunderstand me. I am not saying that there is no legitimate debate to be had about global warming. There is plenty of room to debate the extent to which it is going on, the extent to which, if it is, its man made or caused by industry, and the extent to which the planet self-corrects for it.

My point is simply that anyone who walks outside in the morning to go to work or school, shivers, and runs off and proclaims "It is cold today, therefore there is no global warming" should be summarily executed for stupidity.

Drudge is a great example. Constantly runs stories about record cold here and there. As though a year or two's worth of anecdotal stories is a valid basis for reaching any conclusion.
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According to Al Gore there is no debate, it's a closed case.

There are record low temps all over the world right now, in Middle Tennessee we are 20 degrees below normal, the Orange Bowl was played in the coolest temps in the history of that bolw game. These are just 2 quick examples of what is happening pretty much worldwide right now.

Our earth has cooled and heated over its history. There is no reason to freak out and change laws or put in place policies that would cripple our economy because its cold in the winter and hot in the summer.
 
#29
#29
DC Vol said:
Wow, you really exposed yourself as a "jump before you look" type. I had, built in, a piece saying he isn't an atmospheric engineer (which Boeing does employ). He's talked, for years on end, with his colleagues which are experts in that field.
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It wasn't my finest moment.
 
#30
#30
volfanjustin said:
According to Al Gore there is no debate, it's a closed case.

There are record low temps all over the world right now, in Middle Tennessee we are 20 degrees below normal, the Orange Bowl was played in the coolest temps in the history of that bolw game. These are just 2 quick examples of what is happening pretty much worldwide right now.

Our earth has cooled and heated over its history. There is no reason to freak out and change laws or put in place policies that would cripple our economy because its cold in the winter and hot in the summer.
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Get in line right behind Matt D.
 
#31
#31
It's not so much that there is or is not "global warming"... I think the disparity should be over why there is a constant, steady rise in temperature. There will be anomalies, but those spikes in temperature can't be used as cemented proof and should be treated as an exception to the rule.

What temperatures were millions of years ago we'll never actually know. This is an assumptive graph based on CO2 levels:

image277.gif


The Earth is in a constant ebb and flow.
 
#32
#32
IPorange said:
It wasn't my finest moment.
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It's all right. The argument of "Science vs. Math vs. Art" in engineering comes up often.

I honestly don't know where I would place engineering... as it's so broad nowadays.
 
#33
#33
What, I thought the Earth was only 10,000 years old? What's this "millions" business?


In all seriousness, the Earth of several million years ago might as well have been another planet in terms of global circulation patterns. Oceans and continents were in different alignments, and thus climatic processes were quite different. The last several hundred thousand years are more relevant, as that is when ecosystems that we are more familiar with were around, and more importantly when we were kicking around the block.

If you look at the last couple hundred thousand years, you'll still see a series of warm and cool periods, but it will be more relevant to the Holocene.
 
#34
#34
lawgator1 said:
You guys misunderstand me. I am not saying that there is no legitimate debate to be had about global warming. There is plenty of room to debate the extent to which it is going on, the extent to which, if it is, its man made or caused by industry, and the extent to which the planet self-corrects for it.

My point is simply that anyone who walks outside in the morning to go to work or school, shivers, and runs off and proclaims "It is cold today, therefore there is no global warming" should be summarily executed for stupidity.

Drudge is a great example. Constantly runs stories about record cold here and there. As though a year or two's worth of anecdotal stories is a valid basis for reaching any conclusion.
Click to expand...

and if there's anyone who's an expert at using anecdotal stories to prove a tenuous point...
 
#35
#35
Also, no one is claiming CO2 is the sole driver of global temperature. In the scheme of things, it is a very small one. But small tipping points matter in climate, and the increase in atmospheric CO2 is a concern.
 
#36
#36
IPorange said:
Also, no one is claiming CO2 is the sole driver of global temperature. In the scheme of things, it is a very small one. But small tipping points matter in climate, and the increase in atmospheric CO2 is a concern.
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then why is there this headlong move to destroy national economies to keep atmospheric CO2 in check?
 
#38
#38
MG1968 said:
then why is there this headlong move to destroy national economies to keep atmospheric CO2 in check?
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Because illegalizing water vapor or flatulence would be even more radical, and more specifically because it is rising CO2 concentrations due to human activity that is the unnatural anomaly. And I am not saying CO2 isn't natural. I am saying pumping out carbon deposits in the form of fossil fuels and combusting them into gas in the atmosphere was something that wasn't happening before.
 
#39
#39
IPorange said:
Because illegalizing water vapor or flatulence would be even more radical, and more specifically because it is rising CO2 concentrations due to human activity that is the unnatural anomaly. And I am not saying CO2 isn't natural. I am saying pumping out carbon deposits in the form of fossil fuels and combusting them into gas in the atmosphere was something that wasn't happening before.
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so it's a matter of convenience, not actual science? Atmospheric CO2 isn't any greater now than at any other time in history.
 
#40
#40
All I know is Global Warming is really cold on my balls!

IP, dont you think some of the "global warming" scientists need global warming to justify their existence and the spending of billions of dollars on research, which keeps them in business. Would they just come out and say it doesnt exist? What would happen to their funding?
 
#41
#41
MG1968 said:
so it's a matter of convenience, not actual science? Atmospheric CO2 isn't any greater now than at any other time in history.
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No... Did you read what I wrote? We are taking minerals and combusting them into gas. That isn't something that happens naturally at the scale we are doing it.

Atmospheric CO2 is higher now than it has been in the last 2 million years. The graph DC posted above has a scale of 600 million years to minimize that fact. 600 million years ago, there weren't even dinosaurs yet. There were no flowering plants, and no mammals. It was a different planet. Hell, I think reptiles were the new development.
 
#42
#42
CountVolcula said:
All I know is Global Warming is really cold on my balls!

IP, dont you think some of the "global warming" scientists need global warming to justify their existence and the spending of billions of dollars on research, which keeps them in business. Would they just come out and say it doesnt exist? What would happen to their funding?
Click to expand...

Research always follows the funding. That is a natural criticism, but also could be said about any human activity. You do what you can get paid to do. That doesn't mean the science is all made up. Cold winters don't make for a cooling planet, any more than hot summers make for a warming planet. Weather and climate are not synonymous.
 
#43
#43
IPorange said:
No... Did you read what I wrote? We are taking minerals and combusting them into gas. That isn't something that happens naturally at the scale we are doing it.

Atmospheric CO2 is higher now than it has been in the last 2 million years. The graph DC posted above has a scale of 600 million years to minimize that fact. 600 million years ago, there weren't even dinosaurs yet. There were no flowering plants, and no mammals. It was a different planet. Hell, I think reptiles were the new development.
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No rise of atmospheric CO2 fraction in past 150 years

The airborne fraction of carbon dioxide (CO2) has not increased either during the past 150 years or during the most recent five decades, research says.
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also,

http://www.co2science.org/articles/V6/N26/EDIT.php
 
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#44
#44
IPorange said:
Research always follows the funding. That is a natural criticism, but also could be said about any human activity. You do what you can get paid to do. That doesn't mean the science is all made up. Cold winters don't make for a cooling planet, any more than hot summers make for a warming planet. Weather and climate are not synonymous.
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Kinda like the funding for scientific research on whether cow farts contribute to CO2 levels in the atmosphere. I would like to know that my eating of that juicy Ribeye last night contributed to the overall health of the planet.
 
#45
#45
CountVolcula said:
Kinda like the funding for scientific research on whether cow farts contribute to CO2 levels in the atmosphere. I would like to know that my eating of that juicy Ribeye last night contributed to the overall health of the planet.
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The cow farts contribute methane, not CO2. Eating meat has more of a carbon footprint because raising livestock is very energy-intensive, as you are planting, growing, and harvesting large quantities of food to then feed the cows, and trophic level energy loss means it is a comparatively inefficient way to eat.
 
#49
#49
IPorange said:
This seems like it belongs here:

FOXNews.com - 'Frozen Gore' Sculpture in Alaska Fuels Warming Debate

Apparently it being really cold in Fairbanks in the winter is proof against global warming, too.
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I don't know if this info is true or not, but if it is it makes ole Al look bad.

I heard on some talk show that his electric bill at his house was around $3,000.00 a month. That's more electricty in one month than I use in 2 years.

And he's telling me I need to cut back to slow global warming?

Of course, that info may not be true, but I wonder how much people of his caliber do as they tell us to do.
 
#50
#50
IPorange said:
I agree, a heat wave in itself isn't indicative of global warming, either.
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That is exactly right.

The fact that it makes it to 105 this summer in Atlanta, in and of itself, means nothing. Now, if analyzed over significant time and in context of things like El Nino and El Nina, carbon levels, sea temperatures, etc., its a part of the puzzle.

Its just not a big enough piece to see whether its a Hooters girl or a Rockwell painting.

Drudge, Faux News, and some folks on here seem convinced that unseasonably cold temperatures in their little corner of the world (or someone else's for that matter) should end the debate.

Which is ridonculous.
 
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